Amanda Knox tried for the murder of Meredith Kercher in Italy *NEW TRIAL*#3

redheadedgal said:

re-scheduled for October 30 @ 9am


http://www.westseattleherald.com/2013/09/30/news/experts-will-update-congress-amanda-knox-case-oct

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I don't see anything in the article suggesting that it has been re-scheduled. Where did you find that information? What sort of things normally go on in the visitor center?

ETA:

It sounds like Cantwell has booked a room and will invite people to hear her opinion of the trial for the murder of Meredith Kercher. Strange.

"Can my company rent rooms in the Capitol Visitor Center?
The Visitor Center is not available for rental by any private entities or private event planning companies. Any event that held in the Capitol Visitor Center is sponsored by a Member of Congress. The same rules that apply to the room usage in the Capitol apply to the Capitol Visitor Center."

http://www.visitthecapitol.gov/plan-visit/frequently-asked-questions

otto-- i believe the initial meeting was postponed b/c of the shutdown. the meeting was mentioned on a news report earlier today. i don't recall which channel. maybe a seattle one?

Have there been other times when murder squad detectives operated on their "own initiative" and violated a person's right? Say, for example, in the Meredith Kercher murder case?

In that case, which detective decided not to have an audio tape recording of Amanda Knox's interrogation, even though it was otherwise standard procedure? Which detective determined Amanda Knox was not a homicide "suspect" until police got an incriminating statement from her? Zugarini has said she offered Knox a "French pastry," but did not mention a lawyer, even though it was Knox's right to have one.

...

But what happened next is, no doubt, a delicious reversal of fortune for Amanda Knox and her supporters to watch.

Instead of dropping the charges against Napoleoni, the Perugia prosecutor appealed the judge's "no evidence" opinion, leaving Napoleoni under a cloud of suspicion to this day. And Napoleoni's reaction? She told the media, it was "unjustified aggression toward me by the prosecutor" and a "totally subjective interpretation of the facts."

Could Napoleoni be right? After her lengthy connection to the Kercher case, who better to know when a prosecutor engages in "unjustified aggression" and "totally subjective interpretation of the facts." The only thing left to wonder is, is there an Italian phrase for "if the shoe fits, wear it'?

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much more @ http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_...lian-detectives-impact-the-latest-knox-trial/

aa9511 said:

OldSteve, not to mention.....

How did they know the "burglar" was not HIDING IN MEREDITH'S ROOM?

After all, the door was locked!

Wouldn't you want to check the whole house out so you can make sure there's no one hiding somewhere in the house??

Omigosh, when we break it down like so, their story just melts away like an ice cube under the sun....

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RBBM:


:drumroll::drumroll: Great points !

Knox and Raf's "story" about trying to break down Meredith's door never made sense, IMO ...

IF you go home and find:

- Your front door open ...

- Blood in your bathroom ...

- An "unflushed toilet" in another bathroom in your home ...

- Your roommate's door is locked, and she is not answering even when you try to break the door down :

Wouldn't you IMMEDIATELY dial the police for help ?

Hello ?

:twocents:

sherlockh said:

You 'forgot' to quote this part:

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lol-- i didn't forget anything... TOS state 10%, right?

and, if that was your take-away from the article/my post, you missed the main point.

redheadedgal said:

much more @ http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_...lian-detectives-impact-the-latest-knox-trial/

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I was about to read the article, and then I noticed that it was from the same CBS website that was linked last weekend. In that article, the author believed that the conclusions from the Conti and Vecchiotti report were upheld, even though the verdict was annulled primarily due to errors on behalf of Conti and Vecchiotti, and wrote that the results from the current tests have been released, with Knox exonerated. The conclusion of the article was that because there is no DNA on the knife, Knox should be released from the investigation.

The case is not going to be dismissed on the basis of examining one piece of circumstantial evidence. The trial evidence is still intact. Furthermore, the test results will not be available until the next hearing.

I doubt any articles from the same source about the same case can be any more accurate. Someone asked if the Telegraph, publishing for more than 100 years, is a tabloid. I have to ask: Is CBS a tabloid?

dog.gone.cute said:

RBBM:


:drumroll::drumroll: Great points !

Knox and Raf's "story" about trying to break down Meredith's door never made sense, IMO ...

IF you go home and find:

- Your front door open ...

- Blood in your bathroom ...

- An "unflushed toilet" in another bathroom in your home ...

- Your roommate's door is locked, and she is not answering even when you try to break the door down :

Wouldn't you IMMEDIATELY dial the police for help ?

Hello ?

:twocents:

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What doesn't make sense is that Knox and Sollecito claimed that they were so concerned, "panicked", that they tried to break down Meredith's door. They cracked it. Perhaps they were trying to retrieve Amanda's lamp, and trample the scene with footprints and DNA ... when suddenly one of them saw the police stop at the gate. Perhaps their intention was to break down the locked door, trample the scene, and have Filomina and friends arrive first. If they too trampled the scene, no one could attach forensics to them.

Knox was prepared with her statement: that she found Meredith first, that Meredith f-ing (painfully,slowly) bled to death, that she lay near the wardrobe ... where evidence indicated a shoulder imprint in a blood pool. Meredith was moved between the murder, and the discovery of her body. Knox blurted that out facts of the case that were not yet known at the police station on the afternoon that the body was found. She also got it right when she said that more than one person was involved, and that Meredith screamed. That scream was heard by two other parties.

Didn't Knox say something about peaking through the keyhole, seeing Meredith's purse? Absurd. She was panicked, and suddenly, after the arrival of police, there was no urgency. In fact, Knox claimed that Meredith routinely locked her door. Suddenly, everyone should ignore Meredith's cracked, locked bedroom door. That was probably one of Knox's first lies. Meredith did not routinely lock her door. Meredith had lived in the cottage since the beginning of September, Knox was a late comer. Filomina knew that Knox was lying. That was most likely the point where the roommates formed an opinion of Knox.

otto said:

I was about to read the article, and then I noticed that it was from the same CBS website that was linked last weekend. In that article, the author believed that the conclusions from the Conti and Vecchiotti report were upheld, even though the verdict was annulled primarily due to errors on behalf of Conti and Vecchiotti, and wrote that the results from the current tests have been released, with Knox exonerated. The conclusion of the article was that because there is no DNA on the knife, Knox should be released from the investigation.

The case is not going to be dismissed on the basis of examining one piece of circumstantial evidence. The trial evidence is still intact. Furthermore, the test results will not be available until the next hearing.

I doubt any articles from the same source about the same case can be any more accurate. Someone asked if the Telegraph, publishing for more than 100 years, is a tabloid. I have to ask: Is CBS a tabloid?

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I believe the test results are conclusive. Blanket denouncements of any publication that print these results doesn't change them. As to whether the case will be dismissed because of these results is up to the court, not us.

Quote:
As Amanda Knox and Rafaelle Sollecito are retried for the murder of Kercher, who was found dead in the flat she shared with Knox in Perugia on November 1st 2007, forensic experts have revealed that skin cells found on a kitchen knife in Sollecito's flat, believed to have been the murder weapon, were those of Knox and not Kercher, Italian media reported.The results will be officially unveiled during a hearing on November 6th.

http://www.thelocal.it/20131014/kerchers-dna-was-not-on-alleged-murder-knife

http://blog.seattlepi.com/dempsey/2...r-amanda-knox-victims-dna-not-found-on-knife/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...en-knife-touted-prosecutors-murder-weapon.htm

http://www.coloradonewsday.com/nati...f-victim-s-blood-on-kitchen-knife-touted-by-p

Snoods said:

I believe the test results are conclusive. Blanket denouncements of any publication that print these results doesn't change them. As to whether the case will be dismissed because of these results is up to the court, not us.

Quote:
As Amanda Knox and Rafaelle Sollecito are retried for the murder of Kercher, who was found dead in the flat she shared with Knox in Perugia on November 1st 2007, forensic experts have revealed that skin cells found on a kitchen knife in Sollecito's flat, believed to have been the murder weapon, were those of Knox and not Kercher, Italian media reported.The results will be officially unveiled during a hearing on November 6th.

http://www.thelocal.it/20131014/kerchers-dna-was-not-on-alleged-murder-knife

http://blog.seattlepi.com/dempsey/2...r-amanda-knox-victims-dna-not-found-on-knife/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...en-knife-touted-prosecutors-murder-weapon.htm

http://www.coloradonewsday.com/nati...f-victim-s-blood-on-kitchen-knife-touted-by-p

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They aren't being retried today any more than they were being retried during the first appeal attempt (the one that was annulled). Knox, Sollecito and Guede appealed their sentences. Knox and Sollecito are still waiting for a ruling. Whatever is decided probably has to be confirmed by the Supreme Court. It was quite a victory to have it declared by the Supreme Court that more than one person was involved in the murder of Meredith Kercher.

It has been known for a long time that there is evidence of Knox on the knife. Evidence of Knox on the knife handle does not negate evidence of Meredith on the blade. The lies outweigh claims that they simultaneously turned off their cell phones one night, they got really loaded, they don't remember what they did, they told a load of rubbish, they implicated an innocent man, they made up excuses to justify the evidence and Knox's roommate was found behind a locked door, stripped of two cell phones, left to bleed to death on her left shoulder near the wardrobe. Then there's the blood, prints, moved body, lamp in the wrong bedroom, locked front door, and ransacked items underneath a broken window.

... and we are to believe that there is a problem with the judicial system.

I really don't understand why it is repeatedly stated that there is no trace of Knox at the crime scene. She lived there ... but there was no DNA at home. Doesn't that strike anyone as odd?

Let's assume that there's no trace of Knox in her own home. The crime scene is the cottage. From the moment that Knox found the front door wide open, it was a crime scene. When Filomina's bedroom window was smashed, it was part of the crime scene, When both bathrooms contained evidence related to the murder, they were part of the crime scene. How is it possible for Knox to argue that only Meredith's bedroom was a crime scene and because there is no evidence of [Knox] in the bedroom crime scene (other than the footprint), we should ignore everything in the crime scene that is not in the bedroom.

Why would anyone want to restrict the crime scene to a few feet on either side of the body given the abundant evidence at the cottage? Doesn't everyone want to see the murder of Meredith Kercher solved? How is supressing evidence outside of Meredith's bedroom helpful?

The crime scene is the cottage, not the bedroom.

otto said:

What happened on October 2 in the visitor center?

“Update and Briefing on the Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito Case,” a congressional briefing hosted by Sen. Maria Cantwell (D-WA) and Rep. Adam Smith (D-WA9) at the U.S. Capitol Visitor Center, Room SVC 203, on Wednesday, October 2, 2013 from 9:30 to 11:30 a.m. The trial is scheduled to begin on September 30, 2013 in Florence, Italy."

http://www.westseattleherald.com/2013/09/30/news/experts-will-update-congress-amanda-knox-case-oct

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Here is the explanation for the delay:

Gov't shutdown postpones congressional briefing on Knox case

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http://www.king5.com/news/local/Gov...l-briefing-on-Amanda-Knox-case-226059381.html

otto said:

I don't see anything in the article suggesting that it has been re-scheduled. Where did you find that information? What sort of things normally go on in the visitor center?

ETA:

It sounds like Cantwell has booked a room and will invite people to hear her opinion of the trial for the murder of Meredith Kercher. Strange.

"Can my company rent rooms in the Capitol Visitor Center?
The Visitor Center is not available for rental by any private entities or private event planning companies. Any event that held in the Capitol Visitor Center is sponsored by a Member of Congress. The same rules that apply to the room usage in the Capitol apply to the Capitol Visitor Center."

http://www.visitthecapitol.gov/plan-visit/frequently-asked-questions

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Yes, as posted above, it was the Government shutdown that delayed this briefing:

Gov't shutdown postpones congressional briefing on Knox case

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http://www.king5.com/news/local/Gov...l-briefing-on-Amanda-Knox-case-226059381.html

But as I have learned more about it, it sounds less official than I had originally thought.

I had initially surmised or thought that Congress had requested a briefing on the case for future reference as per extradition.

But once I looked more closely, I could see it was simply a visitor center press conference held by Judge Heavy, Steve Moore and others, to which Congress had been alerted. So it has very little significance, and is just a press opportunity, from the looks of it.
ETA: However: Insofar as a member of Congress sponsoring it, there must be one involved. I had missed that part of Otto's post. So perhaps there is some validity to this as a Congressional briefing, after all. Is Cantwell a member of Congress?

redheadedgal said:

much more @ http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_...lian-detectives-impact-the-latest-knox-trial/

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Seems like more biased "reporting" from CBS news. First of all, their last sentences: "After her lengthy connection to the Kercher case, who better to know when a prosecutor engages in 'unjustified aggression' and 'totally subjective interpretation of the facts.' The only thing left to wonder is, is there an Italian phrase for 'if the shoe fits, wear it'?", makes no sense because that is actually supporting the argument that the prosecutor was not single-mindedly targeting Amanda. He supposedly did the "same" thing to Napoleoni. I'm sure people can say Juan Martinez shows "passion" on ALL of his cases - does that mean he's unjustifiably went after each and every one?

Secondly, this seemed like a very personal thing going on with Napoleoni....involving her ex-husband and her child. That is very different that dealing with a random girl she didn't know personally (Amanda). I don't see how these two situations are by any means equal.

otto said:

I was about to read the article, and then I noticed that it was from the same CBS website that was linked last weekend. In that article, the author believed that the conclusions from the Conti and Vecchiotti report were upheld, even though the verdict was annulled primarily due to errors on behalf of Conti and Vecchiotti, and wrote that the results from the current tests have been released, with Knox exonerated. The conclusion of the article was that because there is no DNA on the knife, Knox should be released from the investigation.

The case is not going to be dismissed on the basis of examining one piece of circumstantial evidence. The trial evidence is still intact. Furthermore, the test results will not be available until the next hearing.

I doubt any articles from the same source about the same case can be any more accurate. Someone asked if the Telegraph, publishing for more than 100 years, is a tabloid. I have to ask: Is CBS a tabloid?

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Otto, on the other thread I'm on, someone also posted a CBS article about that case which was also very lacking in facts and had a biased slant to it. So I definately won't be looking to CBS for an accurate information on murder cases.

Snoods said:

I believe the test results are conclusive. Blanket denouncements of any publication that print these results doesn't change them. As to whether the case will be dismissed because of these results is up to the court, not us.

Quote:
As Amanda Knox and Rafaelle Sollecito are retried for the murder of Kercher, who was found dead in the flat she shared with Knox in Perugia on November 1st 2007, forensic experts have revealed that skin cells found on a kitchen knife in Sollecito's flat, believed to have been the murder weapon, were those of Knox and not Kercher, Italian media reported.The results will be officially unveiled during a hearing on November 6th.

http://www.thelocal.it/20131014/kerchers-dna-was-not-on-alleged-murder-knife

http://blog.seattlepi.com/dempsey/2...r-amanda-knox-victims-dna-not-found-on-knife/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...en-knife-touted-prosecutors-murder-weapon.htm

http://www.coloradonewsday.com/nati...f-victim-s-blood-on-kitchen-knife-touted-by-p

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I believe all of those articles are talking about the re-testing done on DNA on the blade of the handle. They are saying that the DNA in that part at the crook of the blade and the handle was found to be Amanda's. But they didn't re-test the one on the tip of the handle, which was Meredith's. And I belive that Conti and Vecchioti didn't re-test that DNA because they said it's Low number and thus the results wouldn't be accurate. ...........I think, others on here will know more about this.

So these articles are completely ignoring the "tip of the knife" DNA issue. They are only talking about this latest test, which was only on the DNA at the crook of the blade/handle.

otto said:

I really don't understand why it is repeatedly stated that there is no trace of Knox at the crime scene. She lived there ... but there was no DNA at home. Doesn't that strike anyone as odd?

Let's assume that there's no trace of Knox in her own home. The crime scene is the cottage. From the moment that Knox found the front door wide open, it was a crime scene. When Filomina's bedroom window was smashed, it was part of the crime scene, When both bathrooms contained evidence related to the murder, they were part of the crime scene. How is it possible for Knox to argue that only Meredith's bedroom was a crime scene and because there is no evidence of [Knox] in the bedroom crime scene (other than the footprint), we should ignore everything in the crime scene that is not in the bedroom.

Why would anyone want to restrict the crime scene to a few feet on either side of the body given the abundant evidence at the cottage? Doesn't everyone want to see the murder of Meredith Kercher solved? How is supressing evidence outside of Meredith's bedroom helpful?

The crime scene is the cottage, not the bedroom.

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Exactly Otto!!

I think it speaks volumes as well that Amanda made up a story about taking a shower and having a possible bleed from an old ear piercing that morning. Coincidence that she felt the need to explain that some of that blood was possibly hers, I think not. It's completely unbelievable that a young woman comes homes to a house in that condition not to mention a door open all night and no heat on in November and takes a shower leaving the front door open.

Then take into consideration a mixed DNA sample of Meredith and Amanda found in Filomena's room. Oh another coincidence that sample happened to be in a room where a burglary was staged.

Anyways thanks Otto for a point some try to discount.. The whole cottage is the crime scene and there's overwhelming evidence there.

SMK said:

Yes, as posted above, it was the Government shutdown that delayed this briefing:



http://www.king5.com/news/local/Gov...l-briefing-on-Amanda-Knox-case-226059381.html

But as I have learned more about it, it sounds less official than I had originally thought.

I had initially surmised or thought that Congress had requested a briefing on the case for future reference as per extradition.

But once I looked more closely, I could see it was simply a visitor center press conference held by Judge Heavy, Steve Moore and others, to which Congress had been alerted. So it has very little significance, and is just a press opportunity, from the looks of it.
ETA: However: Insofar as a member of Congress sponsoring it, there must be one involved. I had missed that part of Otto's post. So perhaps there is some validity to this as a Congressional briefing, after all. Is Cantwell a member of Congress?

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Yep you lost me at the mention of Steve Moore, judge heavey, and sen cantwell. These names are no one new. It won't surprise me in only a few members of congress even show up for this. Total PR move and some media outlets will run with it and make it a way bigger deal than it even is.

Here is an article from US Senators dotcom posted today which gives more detail RE the briefing:

Experts to Brief Congress on the Case of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito


Second Update: The Congressional briefing has been rescheduled again. It will now be held at the U.S. Capitol Visitor Center, Room SVC 202, on Thursday, October 31, 2013 from 9:00 to 11:30 a.m.

A panel of experts will brief Congress on the upcoming trial of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito in Florence, Italy. The “Congressional Briefing” will take place on Wednesday, October 2, 2013 in Room 203 of the U.S. Capital Visitor Center from 9:30 to 11:30 AM.

American citizen Amanda Knox had originally been found guilty of the 2007 murder of her British flatmate Meredith Kercher in Perugia, Italy but was released after four years in prison when an Italian appellate court overturned her conviction. Last March the Italian Supreme Court reversed the acquittal raising the specter of extradition for Knox.

The panelists include retired Seattle area superior court judge Michael Heavey; retired FBI Supervisory Special Agent Steve Moore; and John E Douglas, also a retired FBI agent and renowned criminal profiler. The event will be sponsored by Senator Maria Cantwell (D-WA) and Rep. Adam Smith (D-WA9).

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http://us-senators.com/2013/09/expe...e-case-of-amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito/

From what I can garner, they want to get their facts to Congress in case of an extradition request by Italy after a guilty verdict. Jotting the is and crossing the ts, I guess.

SMK said:

Here is an article from US Senators dotcom posted today which gives more detail RE the briefing:



http://us-senators.com/2013/09/expe...e-case-of-amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito/

From what I can garner, they want to get their facts to Congress in case of an extradition request by Italy after a guilty verdict. Jotting the is and crossing the ts, I guess.

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I wonder how biased the panel might be? My feeling is that the common-sense way innocent versus guilty people act will not be given any or enough weigh; as these days it's all about forensics...

SMK said:

Here is an article from US Senators dotcom posted today which gives more detail RE the briefing:

"Experts to Brief Congress on the Case of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito


Second Update: The Congressional briefing has been rescheduled again. It will now be held at the U.S. Capitol Visitor Center, Room SVC 202, on Thursday, October 31, 2013 from 9:00 to 11:30 a.m.

A panel of experts will brief Congress on the upcoming trial of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito in Florence, Italy. The “Congressional Briefing” will take place on Wednesday, October 2, 2013 in Room 203 of the U.S. Capital Visitor Center from 9:30 to 11:30 AM.

American citizen Amanda Knox had originally been found guilty of the 2007 murder of her British flatmate Meredith Kercher in Perugia, Italy but was released after four years in prison when an Italian appellate court overturned her conviction. Last March the Italian Supreme Court reversed the acquittal raising the specter of extradition for Knox.

The panelists include retired Seattle area superior court judge Michael Heavey; retired FBI Supervisory Special Agent Steve Moore; and John E Douglas, also a retired FBI agent and renowned criminal profiler. The event will be sponsored by Senator Maria Cantwell (D-WA) and Rep. Adam Smith (D-WA9)."


http://us-senators.com/2013/09/expe...e-case-of-amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito/

From what I can garner, they want to get their facts to Congress in case of an extradition request by Italy after a guilty verdict. Jotting the is and crossing the ts, I guess.

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Thanks for finding that. I understand that the point they want to make is that the Italian judicial system permits the prosecutor to appeal an acquittal, and since that constitutes double jeopardy in the US, any decision after that acquittal should be considered: "a classic case of wrongful conviction".

Essentially, they are taking the position that if a country permits the prosecution to appeal a decision, that country is practicing "wrongful conviction". It sounds like a very thin argument. As I've mentioned before, by this definition, Canada and Italy fall into the category of practicing "wrongful conviction" on a daily basis. Basically, they seem to be saying that if Knox's conviction is upheld, she should not be extradited because, regardless of the evidence, if she were being prosecuted in the US, the case would have been over after the acquittal. Reading between the lines, what I see is an attempt to get out from under a conviction on the basis of a legal technicality, one that doesn't even exist in the country where the murder occurred. The whole argument seems to be based on the concept that US law should apply internationally.