FL - Jennifer Kesse, 24, Orlando, 24 Jan 2006 - #4

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I wish LE wouldn't keep touting that 5'3-5'5 theory! I believe they are very much wrong on that point and they are limiting themselves.

Drumstick, you are furthering that notion and until LE can back that up with SOMETHING to say it is true...I think we should stay away from it. It isn't an accurate description.


I want to make perfectly clear my opinion about the height estimate of 5"3-5"5.

First of all, it is the "official" LE description.

Second, I always thought that LE must have been able to get a better look at the POI's height from the camera that caught him parking the car. But, after viewing that video, it is not any better than the gate.

Third, I am not concluding the POI is taller, or shorter than 5"3-5"5. What I am saying, is why limit yourself to a range when you are basing everything on that photo at the gate.

Who is to say, there is a perfect suspect, who is 5"1, or 5"7, and the wife will not call in because her husband is too short, or too tall. Why paint yourself into such a small estimate.

Plus, what if LE catches the guy, and he is 5"8? I can just see the trial now. The attorney is going to argue and say, hey, my client is 5"8, the police said he is only 5"3-5"5, how can you convict my guy? That could be reasonable doubt. After OJ, anything is possible.

I've said it a million times, I think 5"3-5"5 is probably correct, but, I certainly hope it is. Every cold case has a reason why they are "cold". What is the reason in this case?

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I love seeing all the activity on this case.
I want to interject a "what if".
The timeline of the call to Mosaic and the car drop off time are making me wonder if her car was actually in a Mosaic garage, the perp was one of the first to hear how fast they were looking for her and removed that car quick. If she was left in the garage, the perp could have removed her at his leisure. Making the perp a resident/worker of Mosaic. Knowing that trail points to someone familiar with the property.
I think this is right under our noses and we just aren't seeing it.

Also, viewing the new video, I feel the perp slid the seat forward so he could get things out of the back seat.
 
I love seeing all the activity on this case.
I want to interject a "what if".
The timeline of the call to Mosaic and the car drop off time are making me wonder if her car was actually in a Mosaic garage, the perp was one of the first to hear how fast they were looking for her and removed that car quick. If she was left in the garage, the perp could have removed her at his leisure. Making the perp a resident/worker of Mosaic. Knowing that trail points to someone familiar with the property.
I think this is right under our noses and we just aren't seeing it.

Also, viewing the new video, I feel the perp slid the seat forward so he could get things out of the back seat.

Yes, it is good to see activity

Good point about getting something out of the car. I think the theory of the car being in a garage, or elsewhere on the property is real. Good point. YEs, I do think the POI is under the noses of LE. My belief is the POI was erroneously eliminated. Part of me wonders if he is a "skateboarder".

IF you go to pictures of JK's car http://jenniferkesse.com/jennifers-car.htm, it appears that directly behind JK's driver's seat is a large cardboard item. I'm wondering if that is a "front window shade".

I wonder if that is a source of prints.

Something else that concerns me is how far reclined the passenger seat is. Did JK normally have the seat in that position? I hate to admit it, but, it reminds me of somebody sitting there, reclined, holding a weapon on a driver. I know I am assuming. I guess we would have to know how far back JK would keep that seat.

Another thought. Does anyone know if JK would ever give a co-worker a ride to or from work? Did she carpool? Could a co-worker have asked her for a ride home? The only problem with this theory is the dog trail from HOTG. But, many do not believe the dog was tracking properly anyway.

I'm just thinking out loud.

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I noticed the seat, too. The handle for reclining the seat would be a good source for a print, wouldn't it? It does look like there is something in the car or it could be just the way the sun is shining. I wondered about it myself.

Wouldn't it be great if someone close to the case could answer some of these questions which in no way would be "letting out info" on LE's case, but at least let us know her habits of such things...such as the seat, stopping for coffee in the morning, etc.? I wish some person would come forward and offer to do that.
 
I noticed the seat, too. The handle for reclining the seat would be a good source for a print, wouldn't it? It does look like there is something in the car or it could be just the way the sun is shining. I wondered about it myself.

Wouldn't it be great if someone close to the case could answer some of these questions which in no way would be "letting out info" on LE's case, but at least let us know her habits of such things...such as the seat, stopping for coffee in the morning, etc.? I wish some person would come forward and offer to do that.

SS

Yes, the handle for reclining the seat could be a good source, especially if it was metal.

If you look at the middle picture of JK's car http://jenniferkesse.com/jennifers-car.htm, there is definitely something behind the driver's seat.

Yes, it would be nice for someone to share info. The more information that gets out, the better chance this case gets solved. Word of mouth in this country is huge.

I thought I heard somewhere that JK would stop for coffee. But, I can't verifty that statement. The parents or Rob must know.

I sure would have liked to have JK's condo sealed. Even if the crime scene is the car, which is most likely, I want to know what that condo looked like. Did JK unpack? WAs there breakfast dishes in the sink, or dishwasher? Any take out in the garbage? or refrig.?

Since Logan was there over the weekend, he would know what was different in the condo since he left. While we're at it, what time on Sunday did Logan leave? Was it Sunday? Was he the last to leave, or did one of his friends stay longer? Did anyone sleep at JK's Sunday or Monday night? If not, whose to say, a burglar or whatever wasn't using her condo, Jk gets home, and surprises him.

You know, Mosaic know has camera's. Another thing they need to change is the parking. Don't assign parking spots with the same number as the apartment. How stupid!! Why not just tell the burglars who lives where, when they are home, and how much money they have.

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PS It would be nice if someone answered our questions. I do know that Drew Kesse does surf the web, looking at sites. Whether he views this one, I don't know. IF I were him, I would look everywhere for ideas, clues, etc. There are a lot of smart people out there, who spent a lot of time reviewing this case.
 
Drumstick.

This is related to Drumsticks answers (two above) to mysteries statement above.

Unless you are with the Orlando Police Dept., or have inside information, I would like to know how you can conclude the following:

1) The crime scene (where JK was abducted) has NOT been established by LE. IT is possible JK was abducted outside of her car, either in her condo, on the way to ther car, while mailing the package, at Starbucks, etc. The car could have been simply moved to throw off LE. You are assuming the car is the crime scene. The car is called a potential crime scene originally because JK was missing and her car was found, and eventually, because video shows the POI parking the car. IT is part of the crime scene, even if blood (which we're told wasn't found) was found in the car, it doesn't mean the car is the only crime scene. The car still could have been used for transportation. A crime scene is where the crime took place. To date, that has not been established by OPD.

2) LE has stated there a leaving a window open between 10pm-8am. Show me where this has changed according to Orlando PD.

3) The video is not a witness of the actual crime. that is what Mystery is talking about. The video simply shows somone dropping the car at HOTG. That video does not show a kidnapping. That video shows a stranger to the Kesse's dropping JK's car at HOTG. That is it.

4) Show me where you got the information that ORlando pd has fingerprints and DNA. When Barbara JONEs, OPD, was on Greta, she would not release any information regarding what was found in that car. Where did you get this infornation? Tell me what source OPD is using that they were able to 100% guarantee they have the POI's DNA? What is your source for this statement? or is it an assumption? Where were the prints? What source is the DNA, cig. butt, soda bottle, blood, and how does OPD know this source came from the POI?

5) LIke Mystery said, there is no body. JK could and hopefully is still alive.


6) Motive has absolutely nothing to do with a high crime area. That is not motive. Motive is rape, murder, burglary, carjacking, robbery, etc. We all know that a sexual type of motive is the most likely, but, even that is just a guess.

As for the height, yes, OPD does estimate beteen 5"3-5"5, but they still haven't made an arrest. And the height is an estimate, and hopefully an accurate one at that.

I want to know for my sake, and the sake of this board, where you got your information. IF you know for certain the above, are you part of Orlando Police Department? If so, why is it Barbara JOnes, the official spokesperson won't talk about what was found in that car?

More importantly, your comments suggest this case has a crime scene, a motive, an exact time, the exact height, etc.

Are these your assumptions, or conclusions made by OPD? there is a huge difference.

I agree with mysteries post, unless Drumstick can share whether these are her opinions, or from OPD, then, I will change my mind.

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Who said I was a her?

If you've read the hundreds of news links provided in this thread you would know that every answer is contained in those published articles quoting the FBI or OPD.

I could go back and find every single link and insert them here for you but it would be reduntant. They have already been posted.
I urge you to look back at the posts and read the published information presented here at websleuths over the last year+.
There is a wealth of knowledge gathered together here in one place about this case.
Actual facts and reports along with personal theories and opinions.

I respect your opinions and value your imput on this case.
We are all on the same side.

BTW, the POI is reported as 5'4".
The 5'3"-5'5" is the margin of error.

~
 
Hmmm...I will try to do just that. Go back and read more of the older links and posts...but I thought I already had! Are there more on another thread somewhere that I missed?
 
Who said I was a her?

If you've read the hundreds of news links provided in this thread you would know that every answer is contained in those published articles quoting the FBI or OPD.

I could go back and find every single link and insert them here for you but it would be reduntant. They have already been posted.
I urge you to look back at the posts and read the published information presented here at websleuths over the last year+.
There is a wealth of knowledge gathered together here in one place about this case.
Actual facts and reports along with personal theories and opinions.

I respect your opinions and value your imput on this case.
We are all on the same side.

BTW, the POI is reported as 5'4".
The 5'3"-5'5" is the margin of error.

~

Actually, I have read all the information on the web that I have found. I have followed this case for over one year, and am up to date on all public information (as far as I know).

I have never seen where the OPD has stated the crime occurred early am. The last official OPD statement was that JK was abducted between 10pm and 8am. Has this changed recently, or is this a rumor, speculation, or a leak from OPD?

Also, I have never seen where OPD has released publicly the evidence found in JK's car. As a matter of fact, Barbara JONEs, OPD officer, was on Greta on May 17th, and she stated "we are not releasing the evidence found in JK's vehicle at this time". I would love a link to an official OPD release which contradicts this, or is the DNA and print info. a rumor on the web or local press?

AS for the crime scene, I do remember OPD stated that "no blood, or signs of a struggle " were found in JK's car. So, OPD is not certain if the car is the crime scene, or simply used for transportation, or to throw off LE. IF true, where did OPD get a DNA sample from the POI, and how does OPD know its' the POI's DNA.

YEs, we all are on the same team, trying to find JK.

But, it is imperative that we all have accurate information, and that if one's information differs from what is in the public domain, that a "link", or reference to a source is used to explain the new or changed status of this investigation.

For example, this is the first time, that I heard the POI is 5"4, and that LE gives an inch either way for error. IS this official OPD,a rumor, or just simple deduction.

Let's hope JK is found this weekend, and that OPD finds the POI.

IF you have inside information on this case, and you know that OPD has DNA and prints from the POI, simply state, I have "information" that the public is not privy to, and I know there is DNA and Prints. IF it is simply a rumor, a leak, or etc.., I would kindly like to be aware of that as well.

thanks for your time. I too enjoy your input, but, my priority is to ascertain whether items are facts, opinions, speculation, or rumors. I enjoy hearing other's opinions, rumors, etc, but, at the same time, I do want to know the difference between the facts of the case (which are few) and opinions.

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Thanks SS

I noted Cutter said "nothing was found in the car". I wonder what this means?

Interesting that LE told reporters if they released the tape, JK could be killed.

One could argue that the release of that POI picture by the pool gate could also put JK in harm.

Think about it, if the POI views a picture of himslef on tv, wanted posters, etc., he is going to figure out that LE knows he parked that car. HOw many people walked past that gate, and he is the one who is pictured on a "most wanted" poster. Hmm. One has to wonder if the picture of the POI should have been released at all, or if the video should have been released immediately, or if LE should have simply kept everything confidential. Tough call.

I'm wondering if LE should have just kept the photo of the POI to themselves.

And who is the responsible for releasing the video to the media of the POI parking the car by mistake? That could have been a huge blunder.

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I still stand by my post stating these opinions:

There is no obvious crime scene.

There is no time for the crime.

There are no witnesses.

There is no evidence.

There is no body.

There is no motive.

If there are real answers to the above then the detectives on this case should have made an arrest months ago.

Also I can't forget the comment by the detective in charge of the case at the time:
'this is as close to a vanishing as I have seen'.
Just take time to think about what he said.


My basic reason for the list are these:

There is no obvious crime scene. My opinion is the car was declared a crime scene because that was all they had. Forensic tests hadn't even been carried out at the time of the declaration.
Who is to say the victim wasn't bundled into the perpetrator's vehicle and that is the crime scene. The real crime scene could also have been in any unit or house or park or woods.
Was the abduction at Mosaic or someplace else.

There is no time for the crime. By time I mean tick tock time not a date. Was it midnight on Monday or 6am Tuesday. Perhaps it was 8:30am when she stopped somewhere on her way to work. It could have been anytime after 10pm on the Monday night.

There are no witnesses. I have not seen any reports of witnesses coming forward to say they saw Jennifer being abducted. I haven't heard of anyone saying they heard screams or calls for help. That's the kind of witness the investigators need.

There is no evidence. As far as I'm aware there has been no sign of a struggle. There was no pool of blood, none of her clothing and no jewelry left behind after she was abducted.
I have heard about partial prints and hair from the car and more recently DNA. It's terrific if they have these but they still haven't produced an arrest. This tells me the suspect isn't on the data bases they use.
However it means that there is a very good chance that one day there will be a match to the evidence they have.
Still, until the police confirm publicly they have evidence, forensic or otherwise there is only hearsay to go on.

There is no body. If this is a homicide a body will show the cause of death and may hold other critical information. Also a body makes for a better case for the DA. Obviously it also confirms the case is a homicide.

There is no motive. This could have been an abduction, rape and homicide.
Getting into left field it could have been a sex slave ring or a white slave gang.
It might have been a thrill kill.
It may have been triggered by jealousy.
Was it a professional hit?

All this stuff is only my opinion and basically thinking aloud.
It is also subjective.

We are all on the same side and if we keep chipping away we help keep the case alive and you never know, we might help get a result.
 
I still stand by my post stating these opinions:

There is no obvious crime scene.

There is no time for the crime.

There are no witnesses.

There is no evidence.

There is no body.

There is no motive.

If there are real answers to the above then the detectives on this case should have made an arrest months ago.

Also I can't forget the comment by the detective in charge of the case at the time:
'this is as close to a vanishing as I have seen'.
Just take time to think about what he said.


My basic reason for the list are these:

There is no obvious crime scene. My opinion is the car was declared a crime scene because that was all they had. Forensic tests hadn't even been carried out at the time of the declaration.
Who is to say the victim wasn't bundled into the perpetrator's vehicle and that is the crime scene. The real crime scene could also have been in any unit or house or park or woods.
Was the abduction at Mosaic or someplace else.

There is no time for the crime. By time I mean tick tock time not a date. Was it midnight on Monday or 6am Tuesday. Perhaps it was 8:30am when she stopped somewhere on her way to work. It could have been anytime after 10pm on the Monday night.

There are no witnesses. I have not seen any reports of witnesses coming forward to say they saw Jennifer being abducted. I haven't heard of anyone saying they heard screams or calls for help. That's the kind of witness the investigators need.

There is no evidence. As far as I'm aware there has been no sign of a struggle. There was no pool of blood, none of her clothing and no jewelry left behind after she was abducted.
I have heard about partial prints and hair from the car and more recently DNA. It's terrific if they have these but they still haven't produced an arrest. This tells me the suspect isn't on the data bases they use.
However it means that there is a very good chance that one day there will be a match to the evidence they have.
Still, until the police confirm publicly they have evidence, forensic or otherwise there is only hearsay to go on.

There is no body. If this is a homicide a body will show the cause of death and may hold other critical information. Also a body makes for a better case for the DA. Obviously it also confirms the case is a homicide.

There is no motive. This could have been an abduction, rape and homicide.
Getting into left field it could have been a sex slave ring or a white slave gang.
It might have been a thrill kill.
It may have been triggered by jealousy.
Was it a professional hit?

All this stuff is only my opinion and basically thinking aloud.
It is also subjective.

We are all on the same side and if we keep chipping away we help keep the case alive and you never know, we might help get a result.

Agree. spot on post.
 
This says the FBI and FDLE determined the height.
Orlando investigators asked for FBI assistance to verify their calculations on that person's height and other physical characteristics, Jones said. Police aren't yet disclosing that information.
http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/news_local_orlandocrime/2006/02/fbi_fdle_helpin.html#more


SS

If you go back to the previous Thread, Part 2, I gave a link which shows how LE estimated the height of the POI. Included in the link is video of the Kesse's walking the property at HOTG.

I beleive after the local police took their estimate, rumor is the FBi reviewed the measurements.

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Mystery

I agree with every single item in your post.

Mystery:

Where did you hear these rumors about hair and prints in the car? IF true, did LE confirm this? IF true, How does Le know the DNA is from the perp., and not from a friend of Jk's, a valet, a relative, a co-worker, neighbor, or anyone who has ridden in Jk's car. We all lose hair everyday, so shouldn't there be some hairs scattered in the car? Maybe, LE was able to gather hairs from the headrest of the driver's seat. Not, that would be very damaging.

Same question for the prints.

I've said it before, I think a print is a much better chance. The 10 seconds that LE fast forwarded the tape, maybe, the POI touched the outside of the car, went into the trunk, etc. and LE got a partial. Let's hope so. Plus, how does LE know the prints aren't from JK? Does anyone know if she was ever printed?

IF LE has DNA or prints, this case should have been solved long ago. Just get samples from suspects, compare, and also compare the body structure, height, to the POI. I don't get why its' not solved if LE has prints or DNA. Only case, would be a complete stranger, who has escaped the "tip line".

Does anyone know if LE has requested DNA or prints from suspects? For example, family members, Rob, Logan, should all have given their prints and DNA to exclude them as the print and DNA sample (assuming they rode in JK's car).

Mystery: How much faith do you have in the rumor about the DNA and print evidence?


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OK so suppose LE is right. If it is a male at 5' 4"...first thing that comes to mind is a horse jockey. I realize that is stereotyping...but in Florida...jockeys are pretty abundant in Ocala, Fl which is only an hour away. Just a thought. Could explain the odd clothing tho.

I got too busy to call the Mall of Millenia to inquire about the clothing worn by their Valet and Security. I will try to remember to do that Tuesday. (And if he is only 5' 4"...I think we can safely rule out security guard! LOL)
 
SS

If you go back to the previous Thread, Part 2, I gave a link which shows how LE estimated the height of the POI. Included in the link is video of the Kesse's walking the property at HOTG.

I beleive after the local police took their estimate, rumor is the FBi reviewed the measurements.

left

Yes, I remember that post. That is why I thought this was interesting...for them to say the FBI and FDLE did it. I would like to know if they did just review the measurements tho or if they actually went back and measured it out more accurately.
 
Yes, I remember that post. That is why I thought this was interesting...for them to say the FBI and FDLE did it. I would like to know if they did just review the measurements tho or if they actually went back and measured it out more accurately.

Correct. I would love to know that the FBi did an independent test using their own measurements, lasers, etc. I don't know if they did or not. One would have to assume the measurement is accurate. I certainly hope so.

I hope whomever released the tape of JK's car being parked to the media in error, isn't the same person who estimated the POI's height.

left
 
Correct. I would love to know that the FBi did an independent test using their own measurements, lasers, etc. I don't know if they did or not. One would have to assume the measurement is accurate. I certainly hope so.

I hope whomever released the tape of JK's car being parked to the media in error, isn't the same person who estimated the POI's height.

left

LOL I totally agree! Altho...wouldn't you find it odd that a little man could take complete control of Jennifer? She would tower over him and probably even outweigh him! If the man IS 5' 4"...he is very thin in the video putting him probably less than 130 lbs. (AND has HUGE feet!)

OR we are actually looking at a female and we have been mistaken all these months about it being a male. Next logical question would be: Why would a female be dropping off her car? Was she the perp? Does she have a male partner in this? What possible reason would a female have for abducting Jenn? Does Rob have any past gf's who would be suspect?

Check this out! I wonder if LE thinks this might be a female, too?
February 12, 2006
ORLANDO -- Investigators put out a warning Saturday night to anyone who may have played a part in Jennifer Kesse's disappearance: Speak up now or pay the price later.
Orlando police investigators also implied for the first time that more than one person may be involved in her disappearance, though they would not confirm or deny it.
Sgt. Rich Ring said those responsible for Kesse's disappearance are watching the coverage.
"If this is a situation where there's more than one person involved and you may have got caught up in something that was an accident, something that you didn't want to get caught up in, now is the time to distance yourself from the person that is mainly responsible," he said.
"Don't wait because the deals won't be there later on in the game," he said.
http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/news_local_orlandocrime/jennifer_kesse/index.html
 
I don't recall ever hearing that her briefcase was also missing. I wonder why that was never picked up on.


Her cell phone and credit cards have never been used, her purse and briefcase never found. There was no sign of violence in her condo, no sign of violence in her car, and there were valuables left behind, so robbery was not a motive.



http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...20,0,2579075.story?page=1&coll=orl-home-promo
 
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