MO - Lisa Irwin, 10 months, Kansas City, 4 Oct 2011 - #9

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norest4thewicked said:
Can anyone give an example of a case where a mother either accidentally killed her child or one of the siblings killed the child and then the mother set it up to look like a kidnapping and disposed of the beloved child?

And, please don't say Casey Anthony....I won't even go there...
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Nope! can't name a case, but there's always a 1st ...:websleuther:
 
MyBelle said:
I think the child was carried from the home by her mother or someone helping the mother. If I was their neighbor, I sure wouldn't notice if they were coming or going during a time I'm asleep.

The mother has said she didn't hear the alarm or the dog bark. I think that is a lie of omission and there wasn't anything to hear. But she's also said Lisa was a friendly child who would go happily with anybody and I find that a ridiculous comment that isn't believable. When did a stranger ever take ahold of Lisa for her mother to form that opinion?


JMO
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I can understand differing opinions about whether a car would wake the neighbors.

But it does seem to me that most parents know whether or not their child will easily go to strangers by this point. Some kids will and some won't. And some babies, while asleep, can be lifted without their waking up, if they are not jerked awake. This is the effort of every parent getting a sleeping child out of a car and into their bed without waking them, and they are frequently successful.

So again, if the mom did something, how did she summon help with it? Or did she leave the house completely unattended to do something? I'm mystified on this one.
 
uvamerica said:
Nope! can't name a case, but there's always a 1st ...:websleuther:
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I'm recalling a case where they gave the baby too much Benadryl and then said someone took him or her. I know they did a movie called Freedomland that followed that plot but there was a relatively well-known case before that had actually happened, I just can't recall details.
 
MyBelle said:
I think the child was carried from the home by her mother or someone helping the mother. If I was their neighbor, I sure wouldn't notice if they were coming or going during a time I'm asleep.

The mother has said she didn't hear the alarm or the dog bark. I think that is a lie of omission and there wasn't anything to hear. But she's also said Lisa was a friendly child who would go happily with anybody and I find that a ridiculous comment that isn't believable. When did a stranger ever take ahold of Lisa for her mother to form that opinion?

When my daughter was an infant, she would rock herself back to sleep in her crib, loudly banging against the crib. One night, my older brother was in town to visit and he met her for only the second time. She awakened him with the noise so he went in to see what was wrong. She awakened fully, took one look at him and let out a blood curdling scream that didn't stop until I made it into her room.

So, I'm not buying these excuses that Mom didn't hear a sound because baby wouldn't make a sound if lifted from her bed by a stranger.

JMO
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My first child was so friendly that she would go to anyone at any time. She's still very friendly, and it still scares me even though she's in grad school now.
My other 2 kids were not friendly at all, especially my middle child.

All kids are different. I'd say her mother knows her best, and if Debbie says Lisa was friendly, then I think she is that kind of baby who would be happy with anyone. Some kids are just like that.

What alarm are you referring to?
 
Lots of people have suggested over the years that Haleigh C. could have been overdosed accidently, for example...that theory has come up in several missing children cases in fact, and there is no way to know if a parent killed a child in some way and then decided to report them missing unless the child is found. And maybe not even then, if they are found too late.

In fact this suggestion comes up all the time in missing children cases, it came up in Aliayah's as well, so apparently a lot of people think some parents might do that.
 
norest4thewicked said:
Can anyone give an example of a case where a mother either accidentally killed her child or one of the siblings killed the child and then the mother set it up to look like a kidnapping and disposed of the beloved child?

And, please don't say Casey Anthony....I won't even go there...
Click to expand...

It doesn't make sense but I could see it if the person felt responsible and was afraid of losing the father, for instance. Maybe the feel they wouldn't be forgiven for letting something happen to their child. Or if they were negligent or had hurt the child out of anger, I guess that would be an accidental death since it wasn't done intentionally.
Most people wouldn't hide and accidental death but there are some who might.
 
sorrell skye said:
Newborns are swaddled. Typically, 10 month old babies are not swaddled. DB reported putting fresh clothes on Lisa and putting her to sleep with a bottle. There was no mention of swaddling.
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And if she was taken out of the house in shorts without a blanket or cover over her, then she would've left a trail of dead skin cells. But how would the fact that she is a 30lb baby affect the K-9's capabilities? :waitasec: That's a good question to research.
 
dovebar said:
I can understand differing opinions about whether a car would wake the neighbors.

But it does seem to me that most parents know whether or not their child will easily go to strangers by this point. Some kids will and some won't. And some babies, while asleep, can be lifted without their waking up, if they are not jerked awake. This is the effort of every parent getting a sleeping child out of a car and into their bed without waking them, and they are frequently successful.

So again, if the mom did something, how did she summon help with it? Or did she leave the house completely unattended to do something? I'm mystified on this one.
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I'm with you. I can't figure out how mom would have gotten rid of Lisa without waking one or both of her sons and without leaving a trace of evidence behind.
 
marge_rita said:
:seeya:, please stay and discuss the case with us.

You've made an excellent point. I commented on the baby's height. If you look at her recent pictures, she is tall for her age. (I also think 30lbs is a bit much for a 10 mo. old to weigh.) No way she wears 12 mo. cloths if she weighs 30 lbs.

My loved one is a year old, weighs 20 pounds and wears 9-12 month clothes.

imo
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I have an 18 month old. She is below 5 percent tile for growth. (we're all small, but it still worries me a little, but the doctors are staying on top of it. She's otherwise very normal, happy, active, and smart.) There's no way she is more than 19 lbs and she is just now fitting in 12 month clothes. My 15 month old nephew is huge for his age, but he's not 30 lbs. yet and he's in 24 month clothes.

Why do we think she is in 12 months? Was that reported somewhere?
 
dovebar said:
Have police commented on whether they investigated the dumpster fire one block over - and what might have been in the dumpster, burning?
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Turn down the lights
Turn down the bed
Turn down the voices inside my head.
 
Cailin Rua said:
I'm recalling a case where they gave the baby too much Benadryl and then said someone took him or her. I know they did a movie called Freedomland that followed that plot but there was a relatively well-known case before that had actually happened, I just can't recall details.
Click to expand...


I've never heard of a case where it was actually proven. I wish you could remember the name!

I do know that some people accused the McCanns of drugging Madelyn so that she would sleep while they had dinner.
 
DairyGirl said:
It doesn't make sense but I could see it if the person felt responsible and was afraid of losing the father, for instance. Maybe the feel they wouldn't be forgiven for letting something happen to their child. Or if they were negligent or had hurt the child out of anger, I guess that would be an accidental death since it wasn't done intentionally.
Most people wouldn't hide and accidental death but there are some who might.
Click to expand...

I think there could be reasons a parent would try to hide an accidental or negligent death; if they might be in danger of losing other children, or if their parenting skills have been less than stellar in the past, or maybe just for the sympathy associated with a missing child, versus the stigma of giving too much medication or allowing a child to get fatally injured. JMO
 
dovebar said:
Have police commented on whether they investigated the dumpster fire one block over - and what might have been in the dumpster, burning?
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dovebar..the police went out to the landfill ysterday to search for the dumpster contents from that fire..I havent heard anything about what they found
 
I'm not trying to be silly, but does anyone else get the feeling the parents are trying to blame an alien abduction? It's like every bit of information makes it impossible for a stranger abduction.
 
tlcox said:
If the intruder was not a stranger and had been in the home prior or was familiar at all with the family dog, either through visits to the home or being a regular person on the block or in the neighborhood.
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This!!
 
norest4thewicked said:
Can anyone give an example of a case where a mother either accidentally killed her child or one of the siblings killed the child and then the mother set it up to look like a kidnapping and disposed of the beloved child?

And, please don't say Casey Anthony....I won't even go there...
Click to expand...

The case of sylar newton from Arizona comes to mind granted this was not his bio mom but was the person the bio mom had given him to.
 
norest4thewicked said:
Can anyone give an example of a case where a mother either accidentally killed her child or one of the siblings killed the child and then the mother set it up to look like a kidnapping and disposed of the beloved child?

And, please don't say Casey Anthony....I won't even go there...
Click to expand...

Some might say Patsy Ramsey. :innocent:
 
EllaMae said:
All of my children have slept with me at various times in their lives.....and sometimes all 3 would find their way into my bed at once. Sometimes they just wanted to be close to me and talk.
It had no suspicious connotations at all, and I wasn't trying to use my children to cover up anything. In some families it's just normal for a child to sleep with a parent from time to time.
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It must not have been normal for this family because Jeremy said he asked her why the child was in the bed.

JMO
 
The lights being on are what bother me the most. I don;t know why an intruder would turn them on if he knew people were sleeping in the house, but I don't know why the father would point out they were on when he came home if the parents had anything to do with it. That's not something you would put in a 'story' about an abduction. I also don't see the mother running in to jump in bed when dad drives up and not having time to shut off the lights. Why would they be on unless she was cleaning up evidence? If she was still cleaning up evidence then LE would have found evidence of midnight cleaning.

The phones I get. We leave ours all over, on counters, night stands, charging and not charging, whatever...reprogramming numbers is something we did this week twice. Hubby dropped his in a bucket of oil at work. We have a spare and had to transfer numbers etc to the spare phone and then yesterday we replaced it with a good data phone and transferred stuff all over again. It happens.

I can also see the 6 year old getting up in the night and heading for mom and dad's bed...all of mine have done that when they had nightmares or gotten sick and they don't necessarily wake me up when they come to snuggle.

So all that said the only theory of the lights being on that works for me is if the 6 year old turned them on as he headed from his room to mom's...which would be unusual to dad because it was the first night he came home to all the lights on...being it was his first night at work.
 
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