Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, 43, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 - #5

marlywings said:

He may have lived miles away...how long is that creek..where does it begin??

Do you know of people who own canoes & go paddling in their local creek or river??

As I said, I feel sorry for the poor guy...although at the same time, glad he happened to be paddling around & found Allison. Otherwise who knows when she may have been found.

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It's not that suspicious - if you look at this link I gave earlier from a canoeing handbook for SE Qld, it looks like a popular spot:

"The paddle section is the jewel in the crown as far as South East Queensland is concerned. Leave early early to see platypus on the river. Duck, geese, swans,and Fish Eagles are evident. "

http://www.upstreampaddle.com/kholo.html

In the photos it's quite pretty.

TheStupidTree said:

True, it is frustrating. It's also why the investigation seems to go on for sooo long. What ever evidence they may have may not be enough to arrest a POI right now, they wait for tox, for LDs, for everything. once the arrest is made the police will do just as much work getting a brief ready for the DPP. They need to be able to show a secure chain of evidence. That they have collected all information and evidence within the law. Statements are being and will be taken, the police officers working the job also need to make statements and a complete catalogue of all evidence must be created and maintained. Evidence doesn't just sit in one place, it's taken to labs, stored securely, tested, returned. And just think, every single detective would have other cases they're also either woking or delaying. The boys in blue earn their pay, that's for sure!

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Would be easier if the guilty party stepped forward and nodded. Most of them already have a card in the library and are still convinced that they can get off.

Neuromancer said:

It's not that suspicious - if you look at this link I gave earlier from a canoeing handbook for SE Qld, it looks like a popular spot:

"The paddle section is the jewel in the crown as far as South East Queensland is concerned. Leave early early to see platypus on the river. Duck, geese, swans,and Fish Eagles are evident. "

http://www.upstreampaddle.com/kholo.html

In the photos it's quite pretty.

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No I wasn't suspicious at all...another member seemed to be quite sus about the canoeist.

It does look a pretty area...thankyou for the link

naturaljustice said:

This is second hand hearsay so may not be reliable but a recently retired brisbane homicide detective mentioned to one of my family members that Allison and gbc were seperated. No other details were mentioned but I thought it was interesting. Pure speculation but perhaps this may have been very early on and they had not announced it to family yet. He may have been planning on moving on with the mistress and Allison threatened to make sure he walks away with nothing which likely would infuriate gbc and his mistress. Pure speculation of course. This could also be the reason gbc and none of his family was not listed in the funeral notice as loving husband etc if they were in fact aware of a separation.

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If Allison and GBC were separated then perhaps he came over to the house to speak with her on the 19th and the reason he then claims he last saw her watching the footy show and assumed she went for a walk in the morning as usual is because he wasn't living there and doesn't know what happened after he left.
I am not suggesting that this is what occurred, just saying it might explain his story that seems to be conflicting - but if he is saying he wasn't living in the house then it may be that he is claiming "when I last saw her she was OK."

So a fight erupted either with another person that neighbours heard, or with GBC ( and he didn't leave her watching the footy show)

It may also explain why the police are asking if anyone saw either cars as he may be saying he was driving elsewhere that night and police are trying to verify if anyone saw either of them on the road for that reason.
I had assumed he had to be at home because the girls were there. So he must have known if she left the house in a car or went walking in the morning. If the girls were not in the house though he may be saying I saw her at 10pm and I left.

When the Parents or friends rang to say Allison hadn't picked the children up to take them to school the next morning he may have been called, went to the house and called the police. Possibly seeing something untoward himself and claiming this was how I found the house when I arrived and I think something has happened to her. A very clever set up!

I am not saying for a minute that I think this is necessarily true but in my mind may explain why he is still walking around freely because he is claiming it wasn't me I wasn't even there!

Please understand I am not in any way defending him, I just thought this might be the story he is giving the police and to me anyway explained why it hasn't been quite so straight forward in arresting the person who did this.

Just another theory of course!

Not sure if I am allowed to post this if not I apologise and understand if it gets deleted. However a link for another forum Aussie Criminals and Crooks was posted to the thread earlier. The very end of this thread is around the identity of the ex colleage who has been questioned several times and the last post gives information to identify who they believe this is. Could just be rumour. I personally found it really interesting this woman is South African. This is just info I stumbled accross as I said no idea if it's factual.

interesting to note that the picture of the body by the creek no longer loads either - it has been removed from the photobucket website as well.

Does anyone have an updated link or is this the GBC legal team at work?

Keentoknow said:

Would be easier if the guilty party stepped forward and nodded. Most of them already have a card in the library and are still convinced that they can get off.

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Yes - at times I get so annoyed at the amount of taxpayers' money being wasted in the search and investigation, and then the prosecution. Imagine if those found guilty had to pay that back - might see a few more 'fessing up and not stuffing around with stupid legal games.

Not to mention the stress and suffering caused to family, searchers, cops etc by the delay, search and discovery, dealing with remains.

Straitfan said:

Thanks oreily85! Seems to me a barrister is a lawyer to so wonder why they are called different. (Btw, I love reading all of y'all posts, seem like fun people in Australia

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I work in the Law industry and a lawyer is the person that basically does the ground work, they take instructions and basically take the affidavits and go through the case with client and collect the info....whereas a Barrister disects the info and presents the case if in court...It has always annoyed me that a Barrister gets paid more then the lawyer because it is the lawyer that does most of the hard yards...I wondered why he had retained the Barrister because this is not a procedure that is done so early on...You generally only need the Barrister once Court proceedings are about to commence.
A Barrister usuallly specialises in a particular field and is more knowledgeable with regard to various precedents etc..

The Lawyer was not so surprising but the Barrister set alarm bells ringing when I read about GBC retaining his services.

I guess having a barrister so early on if GBC thought he was going to be pinned with this is a smart move, so that they could get a headstart although it doesn't look good to the public??
Something is certainly waiting in the wings for GBC that is for sure!

possumheart said:

Stages of grief: guilt, anger, denial, acceptance.

I think I am up to denial.

Many of us have found reasons to dislike GBC as we pour over this. What if someone took an intense dislike to him over business dealings and wanted to really hurt him SO badly, to completely destroy him, that they set him up?

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Funny that you say that. I was just thinking that this afternoon. How guilty and devastated would he feel if he didn't kill her but it was someone who did it to get back at him?

Just to be clear, my gut feeling tells me this isn't the case. I was actually just wondering who else would have motive to hurt her. The husband is always the first suspect. Any external romantic interests of either party (if they existed) would be another suspect. Allison doesn't appear to have any enemies that have been made public, or even hinted at. All that has been hinted at is that there were problems in the marriage and that the police haven't discounted anyone as a POI.

Hopefully the police are gathering loads of irrefutable evidence that will allow the prosecution to put a case together that is so strong that nobody will be able to doubt the guilt of the person who did this.

Soul range said:

[...]
I am not saying for a minute that I think this is necessarily true but in my mind may explain why he is still walking around freely because he is claiming it wasn't me I wasn't even there!

Please understand I am not in any way defending him, I just thought this might be the story he is giving the police and to me anyway explained why it hasn't been quite so straight forward in arresting the person who did this.

Just another theory of course!

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Police have made it quite clear that they're not giving a lot of credence to his story.

Eg - Police state husb says he last saw her at home at 10 pm.
- Police then state a few days later her body could have been moved to river as early as 8pm.
(both these things are in police press report videos)

Suspects can still walk around because
(a) they're still awaiting full results (incl toxicology) to confirm cause of death before making an arrest (eg, even if you've got a broken neck, you still need to know if it was an drug overdose/poisoning that caused you to fall and break your neck)
(b) domestic murderers aren't considered a risk to those outside the family (altho... considering driving history...).
(c) they need watertight evidence to make sure they nail the perp in court.
(d) observing them can yield more useful info

In a way i'm starting to wonder if they have enough evidence to charge anyone (at this stage) The only other thing i can think of is that every case gets done differently. For example.. Allison's killer/killers if more than one haven't been arrested/charged yet. But yet today a suspected murderer was arrested 2 hours after the incident (the one from Bracken Ridge). Then when my friends mum was murdered in front of her 5 year old daughter it took years before anything was sorted/done

WSmum said:

Yep and if you take it as fact based on this that the police suspect one of the vehicles would have been at the bridge then it narrows down options to:
1. GBC was driving
2. Allison was driving
3. Someone known to either one of them was driving.

I suppose it could be someone who was driving the car could have been there for another reason either than disposal (looking for Allison, Alluson driving trying to get away from someone). However given police don't ask for details of any other vehicles people might have seen doesn't sound like IMO that the police think a second vehicle was involved. Round trip?

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And if one or both of the family cars were used, how did GBC sleep through all of this? Surely there must have been some kind of commotion?

Neuromancer said:

Police have made it quite clear that they're not giving a lot of credence to his story.

Eg - Police state husb says he last saw her at home at 10 pm.
- Police then state a few days later her body could have been moved to river as early as 8pm.
(both these things are in police press report videos)

Suspects can still walk around because
(a) they're still awaiting full results (incl toxicology) to confirm cause of death before making an arrest (eg, even if you've got a broken neck, you still need to know if it was an drug overdose/poisoning that caused you to fall and break your neck)
(b) domestic murderers aren't considered a risk to those outside the family (altho... considering driving history...).
(c) they need watertight evidence to make sure they nail the perp in court.
(d) observing them can yield more useful info

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And computers kept in custody can yield plenty as well....especially things that were being researched prior to the disappearance...

naturaljustice said:

Not sure if I am allowed to post this if not I apologise and understand if it gets deleted. However a link for another forum Aussie Criminals and Crooks was posted to the thread earlier. The very end of this thread is around the identity of the ex colleage who has been questioned several times and the last post gives information to identify who they believe this is. Could just be rumour. I personally found it really interesting this woman is South African. This is just info I stumbled accross as I said no idea if it's factual.

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Hmmmm .... Interesting

AllyG said:

And if one or both of the family cars were used, how did GBC sleep through all of this? Surely there must have been some kind of commotion?

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Oh that is so right AllyG - didn't GBC sleep from the time he last saw ABC leaving for a walk - so if GBC is driving around the roundabout - that is going to be ringing alarm bells!

HN man said:

Hmmmm .... Check out this C21Westside twitter link for further info? http://twitter.com/#!/settlewestside..... Will let others join the dots

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Seems odd that they newbies mentioned here have only just joined the company C21 - wasn't GBC supposedly involved with a longstanding female C21 employee?

After a week of trying to understand this tragedy I think:

The marriage was in trouble. The business was in trouble. They fought. Time of death 10:15pm. The suspect drove to the scout camp and disposed of the body in Kholo Creek expecting it wouldn't be found - but it rained moving the body to an exposed place. The morning after the death police saw evidence enough to declare the home a crime scene. The suspect didn't cooperate or confess knowing that without a body a murder charge can only be based on circumstantial evidence. He told the inlaws and children "She went for a walk and didn't come back." The police had evidence to believe she was dead and searched all the likely places a body might be hidden. The movement of the family cars became more important after the body was found to disprove an alibi. The killer may have confided to a former work colleague who initially witheld information. The family believe he will be charged with manslaughter or murder. The victims parents wisely and with the help of the media made an appeal for trust funds for the children while there is high public interest knowing there may be no other income stream available to raise them. When all scientific evidence is processed and all evidence re-checked an arrest will be made but as the suspect doesn't pose a flight risk or danger to others an arrest won't be made until after the funeral in the interests of the children. The solicitor and barrister will negotiate a guilty plea in return for a reduced sentence.

This is IMHO only, but I'm happy to disconnect and wait til next week to find out what happens.

Zorro said:

After a week of trying to understand this tragedy I think:

The marriage was in trouble. The business was in trouble. They fought. Time of death 10:15pm. The suspect drove to the scout camp and disposed of the body in Kholo Creek expecting it wouldn't be found - but it rained moving the body to an exposed place. The morning after the death police saw evidence enough to declare the home a crime scene. The suspect didn't cooperate or confess knowing that without a body a murder charge can only be based on circumstantial evidence. He told the inlaws and children "She went for a walk and didn't come back." The police had evidence to believe she was dead and searched all the likely places a body might be hidden. The movement of the family cars became more important after the body was found to disprove an alibi. The killer may have confided to a former work colleague who initially witheld information. The family believe he will be charged with manslaughter or murder. The victims parents wisely and with the help of the media made an appeal for trust funds for the children while there is high public interest knowing there may be no other income stream available to raise them. When all scientific evidence is processed and all evidence re-checked an arrest will be made but as the suspect doesn't pose a flight risk or danger to others an arrest won't be made until after the funeral in the interests of the children. The solicitor and barrister will negotiate a guilty plea in return for a reduced sentence.

This is IMHO only, but I'm happy to disconnect and wait til next week to find out what happens.

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Id just modify 'they fought' to read 'he planned and put said plan into effect'

Greg said:

Id just modify 'they fought' to read 'he planned and put said plan into effect'

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Possibly but I cant find any evidence to suggest pre-meditation.

Zorro said:

Possibly but I cant find any evidence to suggest pre-meditation.

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Totally agree. If anyone premeditated this debauched mess, they are the most stupid person / people on the planet. Like many others I believe this was an accidental escalation of an attack, with unexpected consequences. Hence the weirdness witnessed since.