NO BAIL! Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 -#29

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Obsessor said:
DrWatson said:
Thanks for the info KtK. I would have assumed that remand prisoners may have had more rights. The fact that they don't makes the long delays while waiting for their day in court even more "wrong".[/QUOTE]

I agree, it is horrible to think that an innocent person could end up in this situation.
BBM


With regards to EBC not having visited GBC in prison, I have wondered, purely through observing her when she has been aware cameras have been about, that she seems like the "loose cannon" of the family. My mother is similar to EBC in that she is quite socially inappropriate. In our family, my father and the rest of us all give her her boundaries, to save us from being embarrassed by what she might do or say, or if the case arose, would leave her behind.

Thats not to say that we bully her, but if you could see the inappropriateness, you would understand what I mean. Sometimes its best to put her in her box and not let her out until after the event.

I would see a visit to prison, where conversations and actions are monitored, to be a situation where we wouldnt allow Mum to attend.
I know that sounds odd, but where sensitivity is required, sometimes its in the best interests of everyone that this is established.

MOO
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Maybe she was, as you mention, the "loose cannon" & was put in her box after "demanding or abusing" police the night of GBC's arrest.
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Opinionsgalore said:
HAD TM not known GBC was married when the affair began, then perhaps she could claim 'poor me'.
IMO based on his willingness to seek out and commence an affair, TM was aware that he was not an honest man, and had no right to feel that she was the injured party when she found out she wasn't the only one.


IMO
JMO
MOO
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And you know she is claiming "poor me" do you?


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These threads are for victim - ALLISON BADEN-CLAY.
Any person or friend there-of related to this case, who feels victimised by the actions of GBC should perhaps visit a thread NOT in support of the victim and her family.


IMO
JMO
MOO
 
Keentoknow said:
At the end of the day they want the time in remand to come off their sentence. Why should it be privileged time?
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Yes - that would apply to those subsequently found guilty. But those who are innocent (either REALLY innocent, or found "Not Guilty" for whatever reason) would have been in prison for a long time for something they didn't do.

But that's a whole different discussion, I suppose, and getting off topic here.
 
:fence:
HeartRuledHead said:
I have spent days reading through these forums.

First and foremost I am devastated for the three girls who lost their mother at the hands of presumably their own father.

My thoughts are with Allison's family. I hope they find the strength they need to try and work through this unforgivable crime!

---
Do you all think Allison knew what he was capable of? Of course not! So tell me... How could Toni?

Most people in life like to see the best in people, especially people we love. I am bemused at the fingers that have been pointed at Toni who is a victim here!

She foolishly fell in love with a married man, sadly it happens every day. The heart wants what it wants and sometimes it rules the head.

It frustrates me to read comments like "she shouldn't have 'gone after' a married man" how do know that she was not the one pursued - he was her boss, he had the position of power. Him sleazing on to her seems more plausible given cassinova was juggling a wife and 3 lovers!

It frustrates me that people say she "demanded" that he leave his wife. When? Just because he e-mailed her saying he made her a commitment to leave his wife by a certain date doesn't mean she demanded it - it seems more likely that she was sick of sneaking around and was going to put an end to it and he encouraged her to keep up the affair promising that he will leave his wife. It's a story been told thousands of times before!

It frustrates me that people comment on her appearance as if the affair would be more acceptable if the photos of her released by the media were more flattering it would some how be ok? She is absolutely beautiful in person.

No one but she knows why she fell in love with a married man - most of make mistakes of the heart but that doesn't mean she had any idea it would end this way.

She is a victim. Her life will never be the same again. She could have been the one who was killed if he could work out away to cash in on her demise!

He is a gutless man fuelled by greed! He preys on people to take advantage of. Toni is just one more on a long list of people who is hurting due to the actions of this spineless snake!



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I am sorry H2H but I cannot agree with you about Toni McHugh being a victim. Judging by what has been written in the MSM, she made a conscious decision to stay employed for more than 3 years in a business that was not only owned by her lover Gerard, but by his wife Allison. I am sure in addition to his attention, she willingly accepted all the financial benefits and accolades that she gleaned from her boss's preferential treatment of her.

How devastating would it have been for Allison to discover how long this inappropriate behaviour had been taking place between her husband and one of their "C21 Family Members"

How much financial devastation did their affair cause the B.C.'s business I wonder? I am sure it would have resulted in a number of unhappy staff leaving the Company. I suppose TM thought she was a victim when she lost her job too.

I am sure that to discover your lover has possibly murdered someone is a shock, especially if you end up being a key witness for the prosecution. It would be the same for anyone who is close to a murderer whether it be their wife, mother, daughter, sister or girlfriend or male counterparts - that is just the cards life deals us sometimes.

In my view TM may mostly feel she is a victim is because her "professional image" has been tarnished, because her clandestine affair with a married man has been so publicly exposed.

She would be wise to turn this spotlight on her around and make some public statements about her regret about having the affair with a married man and the lessons she has learned and not dwell too much on the fact her married man may be a murderer.

If I were her, I would consider calling Harry M Miller!
 
DrWatson said:
Yes - that would apply to those subsequently found guilty. But those who are innocent (either REALLY innocent, or found "Not Guilty" for whatever reason) would have been in prison for a long time for something they didn't do.

But that's a whole different discussion, I suppose, and getting off topic here.
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I would prefer to see these people on remand than let all these so call innocent people walk the streets at night while you sleep.

Maybe you should spend a day in a remand centre.

I have spent 22 years in high security prisons and my mind has not changed.
 
HeartRuledHead said:
Many thanks for the welcome :)



Perhaps having no self esteem and being venerable is her crime then.

Who knows what moment of weakness he caught her on. It's easy to assume and judge... isn't it. Why not have a little bit of compassion for a woman not only being accused of this by some but who also just found out she feel for not just a every day sleaze but a murderer.

If someone you loved killed someone, you are not responsible - you are a victim.





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Welcome to the forum and I hope you will enjoy your time here.

Please do not take my comments personal they are not, but I do take issue with TM being painted as a victim.

A victim is someone who either was unaware of the circumstances leading to the event, someone who is not party to the undermining of a marriage. As I see it, this this not apply to TM. She lent him significant sums of money, probably thinking that this somehow would strengthen their illicit bond. From reports in the MSM she is in fact he one being owed most of the money by GBC. Again these debts were due on 30 June 2012. She reignited the affair (again as reported by the MSM) in Dec 2012. Photo's of both of them at NGB and NGB place after the floods, playing happy families, were posted on OW's Facebook page.

She had GBC email her under an alias of Bruce Overland that he be with her on 1 July (one day after the loans were due for repayment). She knowingly was going to attend he same conference as Allison, and demanded he tell her that she would be there.

So all IMO she was a critical player in not only undermining Allison's marriage and the children's future, but even more so in building and contributing to the massive tension and circumstances that led directly to Allison's murder.

All IMO
 
marlywings said:
Obsessor said:
Maybe she was, as you mention, the "loose cannon" & was put in her box after "demanding or abusing" police the night of GBC's arrest.
Click to expand...

Just a further observation on that point, and one that is purely speculative and IMO, EBC and GBC seem quite alike in that they come across to me as "show ponies", wheres NBC and OW seem quite alike in that they appear to have more self-control and common sense. I would almost bet the family dynamic reflects this- that ebc and gbc are close and the same for ow and nbc.
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Strangeworld said:
This was never suggested - opinionsgalore said "she could claim 'poor me'".

You are entitled to your opinion, and that is what's good about this forum. But so is everyone else. You will find that most people will welcome your input, but not if you jump on anyone that disagrees with your opinion.

Open debate is good and healthy - but you can't put down another poster for making assumptions when this is exactly what you are doing as a contributor on this forum too.
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Bad choice of words on my part - thank you for the pick up :D


IMO
JMO
MOO
 
Opinionsgalore said:
By your own admission TM feels she is a victim.


IMO
JMO
MOO
Click to expand...

Can you direct me to where I said anything about how she feels as opposed to how she must be feeling?

Feeling unwelcome to contribute any further as clearly heaven forbid I am not judging a woman for being responsible for a murder just because she allowed her heart to rule her head and foolishly have an affair with a married pig of a man. I will bow out.

Before I do.. I said, it's easy to judge but in reality extramarital affairs happen ever day. It's a sad but true fact, usually they do not result in murder.

My warm wishes and hopes for the three young girls left behind, those poor darling girls. I am sure their mother will watch over them and give them strength.

Edited to correct typo
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Opinionsgalore said:
HAD TM not known GBC was married when the affair began, then perhaps she could claim 'poor me'.
IMO based on his willingness to seek out and commence an affair, TM was aware that he was not an honest man, and had no right to feel that she was the injured party when she found out she wasn't the only one.
IMO
JMO
MOO
Click to expand...

I agree....in my opinion, life is all about choices....doing right or wrong...a two year old knows the difference. I don't see TM as being a victim...it was her choice...she chose wrongly & threw it in Allison's face by thinking she'd make a better partner for GBC...all while Allison was trying to keep the marriage together.

The only people I see as victims in this whole horrific mess are Allison's babies, Allison's family & TM's children.
 
Woof said:
Quick update re Find My iPhone for anyone interested. If Location Services are off, the Find My iPhone app supposedly doesn't work. If the SIM is removed, same. If battery removed, same. Yet police say ABC's phone was still transmitting the GPS signal. So, GBC's text message to ABC regarding 'app not working' or whatever.....was it bullsquat? Had he only turned the phone OFF, thinking that was all it would take to disable the GPS? That fascinates me. He says the app is not working, but obviously SOMETHING is working, enabling the phone to still ping until the battery dies.
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If GBC threw her iphone into bushes or a creek, around what he will describe later as her usual walking route, he probably accessed it remotely , later , to disable it and all of its contents. He would want to ensure that no one ever finds out the incriminating information it contains.
It's easy to wipe its contents and disable it from being located.
He knows he can do this just by logging into her iPhone app " find iPhone "
He is now very confident that no one will ever get information off it remotely,

But, just in case it is suspected and proven that he accessed this app and could do this, he sends a text to ABC saying specifically " app not working" because to know this, he has to access the app in the first place.

This text is so obvious. It's his excuse for accessing her iPhone remotely. To find her. Good cover.
I suspect they later told him it was traced to around the house to watch his reaction to this information and hopefully catch him if he checks it or tries to move it, if he did still have it hidden somewhere.
 
HeartRuledHead said:
Can you direct me to where I said anything about how she feels as opposed to how she must be feeling?

Feeling unwelcome to contribute any further as clearly heaven forbid I am not judging a woman for being responsible for a murder just because she allowed her heart to rule her head and foolishly have an affair with a married pig of a man. I will bow out.

Before I do.. I said, it's easy to judge but in reality extramarital affairs happen ever day. It's a sad but true fact, usually they do not result in murder.

My warm wishes and hopes for the three young girls left behind, those poor darling girls. I am sure their mother will watch over them and give them strength.

Edited to correct typo
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

You will find that most of the responses to your post today were NOT in relation to TM been in any way responsible for Allison's death. Most were directed at the appropriateness of the affair. There is a BIG difference between these two issues.

You should still feel welcome to stay on here - sometimes you need a thick skin and be prepared for a debate when you post something so controversial, but the mod's keep a watch on us all :)
 
HeartRuledHead said:
Can you direct me to where I said anything about how she feels as opposed to how she must be feeling?

Feeling unwelcome to contribute any further as clearly heaven forbid I am not judging a woman for being responsible for a murder just because she allowed her heart to rule her head and foolishly have an affair with a married pig of a man. I will bow out.

Before I do.. I said, it's easy to judge but in reality extramarital affairs happen ever day. It's a sad but true fact, usually they do not result in murder.

My warm wishes and hopes for the three young girls left behind, those poor darling girls. I am sure their mother will watch over them and give them strength.

Edited to correct typo
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

My dander is up now, and rather than run the risk of being placed in 'time out', I will close off by re-iterating that these threads are for the victim - Allison Baden-Clay.


IMO
JMO
MOO
 
HeartRuledHead said:
Regarding GBC's last text messages I would be extremely interested to know if he always signed off his text msgs to her "Love G" Hmmm.


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Click to expand...

Probably not but he probably signed his to TM as Love B
IMO
 
Strangeworld said:
No, you said 'could'. I think that is fine. Shows it's just a possibility. :)
Click to expand...

I let my personal feelings type instead of my head. I have some very strong opinions and I am NOT known for holding back.... But I'll get there :)


IMO
JMO
MOO
 
HeartRuledHead said:
Can you direct me to where I said anything about how she feels as opposed to how she must be feeling?

Feeling unwelcome to contribute any further as clearly heaven forbid I am not judging a woman for being responsible for a murder just because she allowed her heart to rule her head and foolishly have an affair with a married pig of a man. I will bow out.

Before I do.. I said, it's easy to judge but in reality extramarital affairs happen ever day. It's a sad but true fact, usually they do not result in murder.

My warm wishes and hopes for the three young girls left behind, those poor darling girls. I am sure their mother will watch over them and give them strength.

Edited to correct typo


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I'm sorry that you feel unwelcome here

but the bottom line is that this IS a victim forum and the victim here is Allison, there is no getting around that fact and TM (whether she likes it or not) has become vicariously involved in playing a part in Allison becoming that tragic victim IMO

I beleive there were many things that led to what ultimately happened Allison and TM is a part of that sorry to say
 
Strangeworld said:
You will find that most of the responses to your post today were NOT in relation to TM been in any way responsible for Allison's death. Most were directed at the appropriateness of the affair. There is a BIG difference between these two issues.

You should still feel welcome to stay on here - sometimes you need a thick skin and be prepared for a debate when you post something so controversial, but the mod's keep a watch on us all :)
Click to expand...

Thank you, I think it will be hard for me to contribute and not be defensive of TM, i have now been told twice that is not what this thread is about.

She isn't just a snap shot of a face on the news of a woman who had an affair with a married man accused of killing his wife, to me.


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