GUILTY PA - Holly Grim, 41, Wescosville, 22 Nov 2013 #1 *Arrest*

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I am having a hard time wrapping my head around this, if these times are accurate, this is such a small time frame to harm/kidnap/murder someone and get them out of the house. IMO
 
swanniee11 said:
I am having a hard time wrapping my head around this, if these times are accurate, this is such a small time frame to harm/kidnap/murder someone and get them out of the house. IMO
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This is what makes it seem well-planned.

It seems that someone must have known her routine and knew when she would be home alone.
...or maybe someone saw her leave with her son, snuck into the house, and was caught in the act of a robbery when she returned right away.

No one noticed any strange cars, according to reports.
 
zwiebel said:
The overturned cup and glasses on the floor seem so careless - why wouldn't they have been picked up so no one knew anything had happened? But....maybe mom's phone call to Holly made someone in the home think they had to move real fast?

But that would have to be someone who knew Holly and her mom real well - that mom usually called at that time, and would come to the house if she got no answer.
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Believe it or not, most criminals are not going to think about staging, they are going to grab the person and go, as quickly as possible. Maybe there was a noise when he was opening the door, she was startled, dropped her glasses and overturned the cup and he grabbed her at the door.
Some perps might also be aware of fingerprints, so they would be careful not to touch anything. But if he was wearing gloves, it's possible he just didn't take the time to "fix" whatever looked out of place.
 
FindTheWhy said:
This is what makes it seem well-planned.

It seems that someone must have known her routine and knew when she would be home alone.
...or maybe someone saw her leave with her son, snuck into the house, and was caught in the act of a robbery when she returned right away.

No one noticed any strange cars, according to reports.
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which means he/she could have walked ( like a neighbor) but what happened to Holly then? If that person did have a car, he could have put her in the trunk, left and figured he/she would take care of it later just to get out of the area. Was there anything missing from her home? If they didn't take anything then this is personal. IMO
 
Also, do we know when her payday is? she went missing on a Friday, to early to cash a check if she got paid on that day. IMO
 
Marg from Oz said:
Just thinking about the house being staged. Coffee cup upturned spectacles on the floor and chair or was it a table moved. You would think there had to have been a struggle and would expect more of a mess like chair upturned maybe crockery broken. Must have been something rough to knock her glasses off. But if they looked liked they had been placed there, was she incapacitated at this time? The back door being open is intriguing . Was the back door somewhat sheltered as opposed to the front door.? Maybe took her out that way as more difficult to observe them. Were there any strange cars there that morning or was another resident's car parked near her trailer that is not usually there?
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I wear glasses, it doesn't have to be rough handling to accidentally dislodge them, I've accidentally knocked them off myself. This happens almost every day. She could have taken them off to wipe or rub her eyes and laid them on the table just before the perp grabbed her.
 
Unless Holly was bundled into a vehicle or walked away of her own accord, she has got to be close by. Perhaps the park community could all come together at the weekend and have a thorough search in, around and under all the homes in the park?

I wonder if the junkyard owners have given permission for that to be searched too? I hope so.
 
ellemo said:
Does anyone know if anyone besides the son saw the mom at the bus stop (bus driver, other kids/parents etc.)? Not accusing, but think it is important to rule out the son.

Also, does she have any history of mental illness? Or has she been under any severe stress/ had family problems, etc. It is not being classified as an abduction by police and that there are few reasons I can think of that she would leave under these circumstances of her own will. Mental illness, family problems or perhaps drug use are the only reasons I could think why she would leave willingly. I've read that her glasses and cigarettes were left but no mention of a purse or wallet. Are those missing? Could she have those with her and staged an abduction scene? No disrespect meant, but not knowing this woman, these are the things that come to my mind.
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I was wondering g the same thing!
 
Sunrise was 6:57 on nov. 22. Under normal conditions there would have been enough daylight to see outside during the time frame in question. However, it might have been dark when she left to take her son to the bus stop.
 
where there any door to door salesman going around in the previous days/weeks. Neighbors should know about that if there were?
 
ok, heres the other questions, do all of the aged children get on at the same time? If the H.S. was picked up at that time, other parents would have been walking their children to school a little later for the bus. There should have been a lot of activity at that time. IMO
 
swanniee11 said:
where there any door to door salesman going around in the previous days/weeks. Neighbors should know about that if there were?
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I haven't seen anything online about Holly's community, really. There seems to be very little trouble or problems there.

There has been a naked man appearing in nearby Fogelsville recently. It's only a short drive from where Holly lives, but I doubt it's connected. He seems to prefer evening hours, for a start.

http://touch.mcall.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-78383020/
 
swanniee11 said:
ok, heres the other questions, do all of the aged children get on at the same time? If the H.S. was picked up at that time, other parents would have been walking their children to school a little later for the bus. There should have been a lot of activity at that time. IMO
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No, they're not all picked up at the same time. HS starts considerably earlier than the grade school children.
 
swanniee11 said:
ok, heres the other questions, do all of the aged children get on at the same time? If the H.S. was picked up at that time, other parents would have been walking their children to school a little later for the bus. There should have been a lot of activity at that time. IMO
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I did notice that the poster who gave us the time says the bus arrives at 6.36am. So for Holly to be back home on her drive by 6.34 am, the bus must have come real early or she must have left her son waiting at the stop, and returned home before the bus arrived.
 
zwiebel said:
I'm fast coming to the conclusion that it was a neighour who saw Holly on her driveway, and whatever that neighbour told police, it led to them immediately searching the fields, bringing dogs in and using helicopters.

They must have seen something really ominous..
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Was the driveway the bus stop? I'm thinking it was her son that last saw her
 
Did the mother call the BF's cell phone or his actual job?
 
I suspect the bus stop was at Red Maple Acres Rd and Grange Road.

If I were searching, I would check the two settlement ponds on either side of the large parking area behind the mobile home park, the stored mobile homes on the other side of Grange Road and all the stands of woods nearby the park.

The large parking area would have provided an ideal spot to park a car, move quietly into the park and abduct Holly and exit the area. I doubt anyone thought to check tire prints in the part of the parking lot closest to the mobile home park.....
 
I am wondering if there was some substance put in her coffee, which could then explain the overturned coffee cup, glasses on the floor, and the table shifted. Maybe Holly dropped to the floor, then the perp took her?
I am wondering when the coffee was made, before or after she took her son to the bus stop? If it was made before she left, a person could then have put meds/poison in the pot or cup of coffee. She could have heated the cup of coffee in the microwave, if it got cold, perhaps, or was the coffee maker still plugged in and on? Maybe the person broke in after she left to go to the bus stop, or they were hiding there all along, waiting for her to get back?
Obviously,with the coffee cup overturned, table moved and glasses on the floor, something happened, whether there was a person in the room at that moment, or not.
This could explain why nobody heard screams, etc. She was knocked out cold, perhaps.
IMOO.
 
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