FL - 17-yo Boy Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #2

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Just curious, but what is this comment in response to? Did I miss something, or was it meant for another thread?

LolaMoon08 said:
I don't believe there is a State Law that says a child cannot walk into the store and pay for gas... I believe it is a State Law that they cannot PUMP the gas!
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rossva said:
At least until the riots start.
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They did not say to refuse all police services! They said to call the Seminole County Sheriffs Office and not the Sanford Police Department if they need police assistance! I can not say I blame them!
 
belle3 said:
Maybe he fell backwards as he shot trayvon. Considering it was raining isnt it possible he slipped backwards?
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I don't think a 9mm would have enough kickback to make a person fall...unless you mean he just slipped on his own?

I really can't think of any way Trayvon could be shot in the chest and fall forward, but then again, I'm not a visual person.

We also don't know if Trayvon died immediately, or if he maybe rolled over in pain? I keep thinking is it possible he was shot in the back, and the exit wound was the chest. Again, I'm purely speculating, because I don't know about those kinds of things...

JMO MOO IMO
 
HiHater said:
This is true. I have to say though, in the preliminary report (if that's what it's called) the officer notes that GZ's back is wet and covered in grass. If the front of his shirt was covered in blood, I'm sure the officer would mention that too.
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and this confuses me tremendously for several reasons, maybe I am not thinking straight so if I am not some of you really smart folks can help me out.

Most people die of a gunshot wound when they bleed out, and a gunshot would to the chest or diaphram at close quarters would very likely mean a tremendous amount of blood on the person on the bottom of the pile so to speak. I have not seen a lot of people shot, but I was under the impression that the tv and movie effects that have a gunshot flinging the body halfway across the room are just that, movie effects, I don't think a shot from a 9 mil is going to fling TM's body off of GZ if he is on top, so he would have to struggle out from under 140 lbs of dead weight, getting copious amounts of blood on him in the process.

How would it be possible to complete those manovers and be standing upright without getting blood all over you? Am I wrong, does a gunshot actually fling a 140 lb person several feet into the air or something?

If his shirt was covered in blood, would that just not be mentioned? I am willing to beleve the Sanford PD could forget to mention almost anything at this point but this stretches credulity
 
LolaMoon08 said:
They did not say to refuse all police services! They said to call the Seminole County Sheriffs Office and not the Sanford Police Department if they need police assistance! I can not say I blame them!
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You're right, I was typing shorthandedly because some of you were also watching.
 
rossva said:
Just curious, but what is this comment in response to? Did I miss something, or was it meant for another thread?
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Umm.. no? We were discussing the Rally for Trayvon as we were watching it and there was an incident involving a gas station clerk/ Sanford Police Department and a child.
 
HiHater said:
You're right, I was typing shorthandedly because some of you were also watching.
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Trust me, I know. Don't even worry about it. This has nothing to do with our watching the rally and commenting on it.
 
belle3 said:
Maybe he fell backwards as he shot trayvon. Considering it was raining isnt it possible he slipped backwards?
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it is entirely possible that he slipped, but he has asserted Self Defense, and the only way that Self defense is even viable is if he is actually under physical attack, since we know that Trayvon did not have any sort of weapon to menace him with. GZ could not have mistaken a bag so skittles or the tea for a weapon since they were still in Tray's pocket when the police arrived, which means the only real a viable way to make this self defense, and himself under violent attack is if Tray has knocked him to the ground getting the back of his shirt wet and grassy and injuring the back of his head, while punching his lights out....and that's when he shot him....amost any other scenario puts Tray too far away to be attacking or menacing him, and that makes the shot murder. IMO
 
The club house in a gated community is not exactly public property; it belongs to the home owners of the community. Most/a lot of gated communities require guests to have a resident with them with using the communal areas.


csziggy said:
I wonder if Trayvon even went under the porch of an individual townhouse. The clubhouse for the development is right at the front entrance, and where GZ first said he was calling from. It would be natural to step under the porch area of the public building to take shelter from the rain and that should not have been thought to be suspicious.
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How much neighborhood watch does a gated community really need?? Did the guy appoint himself? sorry I just find that strange
 
I've been trying to come up with a scenario of how TM ended up face down as well. Here is MOO of what MIGHT have happened. If you listen the extended interview given by the neighbor named Mary, she says that she sees GZ with his arms stretched out and it looks like he pressing on TM after the shooting. Then she sees TM's leg move, but thinks it might have been an after death movement. She isn't sure. But she says she is sure whatever GZ was doing to the body wasn't to help TM. (I'm assuming she means CPR.)

Well, in my opinion, I think TM was not originally face down. I think GZ frisked TM to look for the weapon I'm sure he thought Tray had on him. Tray may have been face up first immediately after the shooting and GZ checked his front pockets for a "weapon" then rolled him over to check the back of his waistband and then lifted his leg to check his socks/shoes near his ankle.

That could explain Mary seeing the leg move. GZ finds skittles and iced tea instead of a weapon and that's why he's seen with his hands on his head giving the WTF did I just do look that was reported.

Again, this is all speculation and just a guess on my part.

I really hate that we don't know what happened to this young man. I can only pray that forensics will speak when Tray cannot.
 
Actually, I would say running shows fear for his safety. Guilty or innocent Zimmerman has already been judged guilty by lot's of folks. Again, guilty or innocent, if you were Zimmerman, wouldn't you be some where no one would recognize you?



HiHater said:
You're right my mistake! I guess nothing they can do if even if he was a flight risk. I'm sure he's still in FL though, running would be consciousness of guilt.
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Sensei said:
Yes, I too would love to know what his neighbors are thinking....and I don't doubt that to some of them GZ is a very nice guy, someone who was willing to help out and everything that they claim him to be..... I hope that at some quiet introspective moment, they sit down and start to think about what GZ was attempting to accomplish, and how far away from that his poor judgement got them. They just wanted a quiet safe community, but what they got was a community that now has a history of shooting to death an unarmed kid who was committing no crime, about as far from quiet and safe as it is possible to be.

Even IF Trayvon had been absolutely up to no good, if he was intending to vandalize or steal...How many bicycles, or plastic flamingos, or lawn mowers or whatever he could have carried away on foot were worth a person's life? Any person's life, let alone an innocent person.

This is America, we don't punish theft with the death penalty, and in light of that, I wonder if Mr. Zimmerman ever gets introspective enough to wonder why he didn't just stay in his truck and let LE handle things...even if something might have gotten stolen
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Just now catching up here and saw this post. Every sentence of your post is right on, but I especially like the statement I have bolded!!!

:clap::clap::clap:
 
curl_in_progress said:
I've been trying to come up with a scenario of how TM ended up face down as well. Here is MOO of what MIGHT have happened. If you listen the extended interview given by the neighbor named Mary, she says that she sees GZ with his arms stretched out and it looks like he pressing on TM after the shooting. Then she sees TM's leg move, but thinks it might have been an after death movement. She isn't sure. But she says she is sure whatever GZ was doing to the body wasn't to help TM. (I'm assuming she means CPR.)

Well, in my opinion, I think TM was not originally face down. I think GZ frisked TM to look for the weapon I'm sure he thought Tray had on him. Tray may have been face up first immediately after the shooting and GZ checked his front pockets for a "weapon" then rolled him over to check the back of his waistband and then lifted his leg to check his socks/shoes near his ankle.

That could explain Mary seeing the leg move. GZ finds skittles and iced tea instead of a weapon and that's why he's seen with his hands on his head giving the WTF did I just do look that was reported.

Again, this is all speculation and just a guess on my part.

I really hate that we don't know what happened to this young man. I can only pray that forensics will speak when Tray cannot.
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Excellent plausible and logical....Wouldn't it be helpful if in their initial interview with GZ the PD has asked him if he moved the body either to searchfor weapons or render aid? Wonder if they did, and I wonder if we will ever know!
 
rossva said:
Actually, I would say running shows fear for his safety. Guilty or innocent Zimmerman has already been judged guilty by lot's of folks. Again, guilty or innocent, if you were Zimmerman, wouldn't you be some where no one would recognize you?
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Kind of like Trayvon was running in fear for his safety.
 
rossva said:
Actually, I would say running shows fear for his safety. Guilty or innocent Zimmerman has already been judged guilty by lot's of folks. Again, guilty or innocent, if you were Zimmerman, wouldn't you be some where no one would recognize you?
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Running and hiding are two very different things.

& I would never be Zimmerman, because I operate in the realm of reality. I have taken numerous criminal justice courses, but I realize I am not a cop.
 
Kaliste said:
Kind of like Trayvon was running in fear for his safety.
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At least if Mr Zimmerman finds himself walking down a sidewalk with an unmarked truck stealthly following him, or being chased by a burly man with no obvious credentials, he is not likely to be confused about exactly why they are following him.

Not that anyone should ever under any circumstances do any such thing....more random thoughtless violence is NOT the answer to any problem or the punishment for bad judgement and stupidity.
 
WFTV says not racial slur. For those that have suggested Zimmerman was a racist based on that recording - see how easy it is to hear what you want and make snap judgements, exactly what Zimmerman did when he saw Martin.

Perhaps Martin thought (as many others thought) he heard Zimmerman make a racial slur, and as passionate as people get over such slurs, did attack Zimmerman.

As tragic as Martin's death is, I think it's going to be difficult to prove Zimmerman technically broke any laws.



"Throughout the day, people on social media websites began reporting that they heard the racial slur; however, others said they don't believe that it was an offensive comment. To listen for yourself, click here.

WFTV had an audio expert listen to the call, and determined that the word said was "punks.""

http://www.wftv.com/news/news/state-attorney-case-will-be-given-grand-jury-shoot/nLX9c/
 
Where do you think he is? Running, or hiding?


HiHater said:
Running and hiding are two very different things.

& I would never be Zimmerman, because I operate in the realm of reality. I have taken numerous criminal justice courses, but I realize I am not a cop.
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