Male Seen Walking With/Near Amber on Feb 13, 2009

This is a dumb question probably but what side of the street was Amber seen walking on; I mean would it have been opposing on coming car traffic or going with the flow?

Billylee said:

This is a dumb question probably but what side of the street was Amber seen walking on; I mean would it have been opposing on coming car traffic or going with the flow?

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Not a dumb question. She was seen by 2 witnesses walking southbound on the west side of N Broadway. So she would have been walking in the same direction as vehicle traffic (with the flow).

Parent 1 was driving north when he saw her and parent 2 was driving south (coming from behind Amber) when she saw her.

See attachments for visual that might help.

cloudajo said:

Not a dumb question. She was seen by 2 witnesses walking southbound on the west side of N Broadway. So she would have been walking in the same direction as vehicle traffic (with the flow).

Parent 1 was driving north when he saw her and parent 2 was driving south (coming from behind Amber) when she saw her.

See attachments for visual that might help.

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Cloudajo, I was just want to say thank you for all the research and information you've provided on Amber's case. I've learned a lot from reading all your posts!!

This still bothers me - with all the people coming to school that morning, how could no one have noticed anything unusual? Now that JAG has pleaded guilty to Amber's murder, we know that he abducted her that morning but how did this happen with no one noticing? Maybe there will be more details once that gag order is lifted but it seems pretty risky to abduct someone on the way to school with so many others around walking, driving, to school. Was it really JAG that people saw walking along with Amber that day?

We know that JAG plead to it, IMO, we don't that he actually did it. The DA was very thankful he did because they said they didn't have anything on him to make a case. There was no DNA, no anything else but JAG's word. It helped JAG get what he wanted out of this situation, I may be alone but I don't think I would feel safe, I really believe that the person who took Amber and killed her is still out there.

sarx said:

We know that JAG plead to it, IMO, we don't that he actually did it. The DA was very thankful he did because they said they didn't have anything on him to make a case. There was no DNA, no anything else but JAG's word. It helped JAG get what he wanted out of this situation, I may be alone but I don't think I would feel safe, I really believe that the person who took Amber and killed her is still out there.

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Oh boy, I never thought of that. He admits to Amber's murder, and no death penalty.Wow...

Are you serious? You actually think JAG confessed to this to get out of a death sentence, but didn't do it? Think about this some more. JAG took LE to the exact remote spot where Amber's remains were found. The spot would have been impossible for anyone to pinpoint without fully knowing what happened.

Okay, we know beyond the shadow of a doubt that Gardner killed her. He led the authorities straight to her body, on difficult terrain. We have no reason to believe that he had a confederate, and it doesn't seem to fit his modus operandi, anyway, when we compare this case to the Chelsea King case, and to the runner attacked in December.

So, what about the boy 'seen walking with Amber'?

I think there are three likely possibilities:

1. Acquaintance or friend who was completely innocent but was too cowardly to come forward afterwards.

2. Sheer coincidence: someone whose path matched hers briefly, but who probably doesn't have any idea to this day that the police would have liked to know who he was.

3. The girl wasn't Amber at all. False sightings happen all the time, in this sort of case.

If he took them to the spot them how come they said they had nothing on him?

And, yes, I'm serious, no need to be nasty, I am entitled to my opinions just like everyone else.

Was there a PC that I missed where the DA or LE said that he took them to the body? Can someone post that link for me? TIA?

sarx said:

If he took them to the spot them how come they said they had nothing on him?

And, yes, I'm serious, no need to be nasty, I am entitled to my opinions just like everyone else.

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He made a deal with them that they could not use the fact that he took them to the body against him.

marieblasdell said:

Okay, we know beyond the shadow of a doubt that Gardner killed her. He led the authorities straight to her body, on difficult terrain. We have no reason to believe that he had a confederate, and it doesn't seem to fit his modus operandi, anyway, when we compare this case to the Chelsea King case, and to the runner attacked in December.

So, what about the boy 'seen walking with Amber'?

I think there are three likely possibilities:

1. Acquaintance or friend who was completely innocent but was too cowardly to come forward afterwards.

2. Sheer coincidence: someone whose path matched hers briefly, but who probably doesn't have any idea to this day that the police would have liked to know who he was.

3. The girl wasn't Amber at all. False sightings happen all the time, in this sort of case.

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All good possibilities. Might have been some other girl with a boy and witnesses later believed it were Amber. Might have been a boy who didn't have anything to do with her murder but was too afraid to come forward-who would want to become a suspect after she went missing? I don't think JAG had an accomplice- of the crimes we know of, having an accomplice was not his MO.

http://www.10news.com/news/23169959/detail.html

In this article it is noted that the DA Bonnie Dumanis said "Gardner led investigators to the skeletal remains of Dubois two days after authorities charged him with the murder of King."

This was kept under wraps at the time because of the gag order.

jjenny said:

Might have been some other girl with a boy and witnesses later believed it were Amber. Might have been a boy who didn't have anything to do with her murder but was too afraid to come forward-who would want to become a suspect after she went missing? I don't think JAG had an accomplice- of the crimes we know of, having an accomplice was not his MO.

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I just thought of a fourth possibility. What if it was Gardner? Descriptions of the 'boy' varied, but one word I've seen used was 'doughy'. So, I'm thinking of a situation where he parks his car or truck on a street where he knows that teenagers will be using to go to school. He walks back some distance, watches for someone walking alone, stalks her, acting as though he's just walking along the street in the same direction, then, when they get to where he's parked, he uses a knife to terrify her into his vehicle. (His confession said that he stabbed her.)

However, I think it was probably more simple than this--that he parked, watched for someone walking along, and grabbed her.

Thanks for the article but I mean an actual PC where they say it.

sarx said:

Thanks for the article but I mean an actual PC where they say it.

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Check post 276 in the 'Media links' thread. It has a number of 'primary source' links--video of the DA, and a transcript of the DA's statement.

What is it you're concerned about? It seems very clear to me.

I have gone over every article I can find, read many different, even sometimes contradictory statement printed, but what is very clear is that everyone wants these cases to be closed and wrapped up very badly. I at this point still do not see enough to change my mind, but I'm going to leave it be here as I don't see any point going back and forth either. I really do hope that I'm wrong and I don't mind being the only one that feels the way I do, nor would I mind at all being incorrect in this case, but it's just something nagging in my gut.
So, no need to go back and forth about it!

What contradictions do you see?

sarx said:

Was there a PC that I missed where the DA or LE said that he took them to the body? Can someone post that link for me? TIA?

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This is about as close as I can find right now. Hope this helps. I also was on my way home from my son's house Friday when I had on the radio and heard Gardner, with my own ears, plead guilty to each murder and then the attack in December. He was even asked by the judge if he knew what his guilty plea meant, yadda, yadda, and he answered 'yes.'

I understand that both families didn't know about the plea until the day before. Amber's dad didn't even know Gardner is the one who led them to her body. But I think just about everyone figured he did because of the timing.

We know LE had SW'd several residences relating to Gardner and had taken picks and shovels and such. But even with all that, they couldn't LINK him, specifically to Amber, without the FACT he led them to her body. Without that FACT, they had no case for Amber.

JMHO
fran



http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/apr/16/gardner-pleads-guilty-murders-chelsea-amber/

Deal with prosecutors spares Gardner death

Sex offender admits to killing teens Chelsea King and Amber Dubois

Gardner told prosecutors that he would take them to Amber’s remains if they didn’t use it against him. They found her remains north of Pala on March 6 but lacked DNA and other evidence to charge him with her death.

He still could have faced the death penalty for Chelsea’s murder, but prosecutors and the girls’ families agreed to the plea deal to bring closure to Amber’s case.

“To end the anguish of the unknown for the Dubois family and to bring Amber home, we agreed we would not use this information against Gardner in court,” District Attorney Bonnie Dumanis said Friday after the hearing in San Diego Superior Court.

Dumanis said authorities worked day and night to find another way to tie Gardner to Amber’s death Feb. 13, 2009, but could not.

“By accepting this guilty plea, we are obtaining a conviction for the murder of Amber that we otherwise would not have been able to obtain,” Dumanis said. “Accepting this plea has been an extremely difficult decision. We have the evidence to pursue a murder charge against the defendant for Chelsea’s murder, but not for Amber’s murder.”

sarx said:

Thanks for the article but I mean an actual PC where they say it.

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I saw this post after I linked the previous news article. Here's an almost 10 minute presser from the DA. She says everything that was in the articles.

Hope this helps,
fran

http://www.10news.com/video/23178959/index.html

DA Bonnie Dumanis Discusses Gardner Plea Agreemen

San Diego County District Attorney Bonnie Dumanis addressed the media regarding John Gardner's plea agreement.

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<video at link>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

PS...sorry, the link may take you to Amber's dad's video about the plea. Just look below the actual video and the video title mentioned above "DA Bonnie Dumanis Duscusses Garner Plea Agreement" and just click on it. It's about 9min42sec long