CLUES: how to find Susan

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I'm thinking Josh would have taken Susan somewhere he was familiar with, somewhere he had been to in the past, possibly an abandoned mine and I'm thinking it probably wasn't in the State of Utah, I'm just not sure how familiar he was with Utah. But he would certainly be familiar with places between WA State and West Valley City, UT, wouldn't he? Baker City, OR is about 472 mi. from West Valley City, UT, which would account for the near 1000 miles on the rental car (round trip) and there are many abandoned mines in or near Baker City, OR. http://mines.findthedata.org/search/city/Baker+City

All jmo of course
 
In regards to burning a body to ashes, I do not think it is possible to do with a regular type of campfire. This article about cremation http://science.howstuffworks.com/cremation.htm says that temperatures during cremation reach 2000° Fahrenheit. That reduces the tissue to an ash like consistency, but the bones need to be ground up, which results in something akin to gravel. It also takes 2-3 hours at this temperature.

According to these campfire guidelines http://www.windsorfire.com/divisions-prevention-campfire-safety-guidelines "The average campfire can get as hot as 500°C (932°F) in as little as 3 hrs."

Based on that info, I would conclude that a campfire would not be hot enough to burn a body until it was ashes. There would be identifiable bones, which would be charred but still look like human bones.
 
ljczec said:
In regards to burning a body to ashes, I do not think it is possible to do with a regular type of campfire. This article about cremation http://science.howstuffworks.com/cremation.htm says that temperatures during cremation reach 2000° Fahrenheit. That reduces the tissue to an ash like consistency, but the bones need to be ground up, which results in something akin to gravel. It also takes 2-3 hours at this temperature.

According to these campfire guidelines http://www.windsorfire.com/divisions-prevention-campfire-safety-guidelines "The average campfire can get as hot as 500°C (932°F) in as little as 3 hrs."

Based on that info, I would conclude that a campfire would not be hot enough to burn a body until it was ashes. There would be identifiable bones, which would be charred but still look like human bones.
Click to expand...

You are correct, a campfire will not destroy bones. Even if he went back and lit it again. If he went back, which I think he did, he moved her, or buried the remains.
 
As far as I know, we have never heard about Steven Powell's whereabouts during the time Susan disappeared. I have always wondered if JP panicked and SP met him halfway between the UT and WA homes.

I also think we need to look back to what we know about the miles on the rental car. I don't think it was 1000, but rather several hundred.

I also agree fire was involved - and his hands being red are because of it.

From wikipedia: Flame temperatures of common items include a blow torch – which can burn usually up to around 1,600 °C (2,900 °F), a candle at 1,400 °C (2,600 °F),[5] a propane torch at 1,995 °C (3,620 °F), or a much hotter oxyacetylene combustion at 3,000 °C (5,400 °F). Cyanogen produces an even hotter flame with a temperature of over 4,525 °C (8,180 °F) when it burns in oxygen.[6]

I remember talking about the large amounts of plastic wrap type stuff he bought - was that confirmed?

Why the !@#$ wasn't he tailed in the rental car??!
 
21merc7 said:
You are correct, a campfire will not destroy bones. Even if he went back and lit it again. If he went back, which I think he did, he moved her, or buried the remains.
Click to expand...

I am confused as to the boys saying that mommie was in the trunk. But, we are referring here to a van. There is no trunk in a van. Maybe it wasn't the night of the camp out, but at a later date. Is the date she went missing for sure the date he reported? I also think it is strange he moved out of his house so quickly. Maybe ashes, body parts, etc. are still there buried somewhere. Just throwing out thoughts.

Did he own the home they were living in when she went missing?
 
Hey all blessings to you. A long time ago, I studied this case and came up with a video using the most simple, factual info I could find. Hope there is some helpful reference in this. The thread was UT -Susan Powell, 28, West Valley City, 6 Dec 2009 - #6 My post with the video was number 1064. Peace 2 U.
 
mck16 said:
I am confused as to the boys saying that mommie was in the trunk. But, we are referring here to a van. There is no trunk in a van. Maybe it wasn't the night of the camp out, but at a later date. Is the date she went missing for sure the date he reported? I also think it is strange he moved out of his house so quickly. Maybe ashes, body parts, etc. are still there buried somewhere. Just throwing out thoughts.

Did he own the home they were living in when she went missing?
Click to expand...

I've thought he kept her remains somewhere with him also. What better way to be totally in control of any possibility of her being found than to keep them where you are? Bury them under a house, put them in a venting duct, etc.... That is why I thought the house was on fire that he rented, until I got up to the horrible news the next morning.
 
PercyVeer said:
Hey all blessings to you. A long time ago, I studied this case and came up with a video using the most simple, factual info I could find. Hope there is some helpful reference in this. The thread was UT -Susan Powell, 28, West Valley City, 6 Dec 2009 - #6 My post with the video was number 1064. Peace 2 U.
Click to expand...

I think Percy is talking about this post:

PercyVeer said:
Hi Dear People; I am new to WS, long-time lurker. I appreciate the professionalism here, and the caring here. FYI: There is a new vid up on YT regarding asking people to check their memory December 6-8 regarding JP trips. Take Care. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8udgNVodBQ
Click to expand...
 
mck16 said:
I am confused as to the boys saying that mommie was in the trunk. But, we are referring here to a van. There is no trunk in a van. Maybe it wasn't the night of the camp out, but at a later date. Is the date she went missing for sure the date he reported? I also think it is strange he moved out of his house so quickly. Maybe ashes, body parts, etc. are still there buried somewhere. Just throwing out thoughts.

Did he own the home they were living in when she went missing?
Click to expand...

I believe it was Mr. and Mrs. Cox this morning that explained that the back of the van opened upwards, and these being young children, just don't always differentiate between the back of the van and the trunk of the car.

As far as burning the body, I do believe he did. It may NOT have gone completely to ash, but he used a strong accelerant. There were earlier reports of him purchasing fuel of some sort. I just don't know where the items were discussed at this time.

I do believe, IIRCC, there was verification of him buying the plastic. Again, I don't recall off-hand when we discussed this. I'll have to go back through previous threads and look for these, when I have more time.

I just think that the puzzle can be put together if enough heads get together.

We have to find Susan. We just have to!

fran
 
On the radio show, Kiirsi stated that they were in the van and that the boys call the back of it the "trunk".
 
Josh purchased a cutting torch (propane or gas)

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4785792&postcount=158"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Was Josh Seen Buying A LARGE Amount of Shrink Wrap?[/ame]

And a cave story:

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_13919224

I'm still poking around in old threads, don't know how long I can do it for tonight though.

ETA: I also read in the top linked thread that there are over 10,000 some mines in Utah!
 
I know early on I had heard about a place they liked to camp, it was also a place that they looked for crystal's. I can't remember exactly where it was, wyoming ? or Idaho? I think Idaho.
I am going to try and find that article because I always thought of this place when thinking of Susan.... I know it was somewhere that other friends went and joined them as well. I did the mileage before as well and recall it could have fit his time frame
I'll see if I can find the article or one of my earlier posts about it
 
Interview with Josh from early on, just in case there may be something in this: ETA: At the end JP says the "went down south, some trails." Then he says "The Pony Express." So they either went south or just the opposite, north.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCXDpQEfZm8&feature=player_embedded"]Josh Powell Full Interview With 2News Utah News, KUTV, 2News, Utah Community.flv - YouTube[/ame]
 
Where their any camps, cabins, sheds or old vacant buildings that burnt during the
24 hours Susan went missing in a 500 mile radius???
In another town no one would think was anything but an old shed burnt down?
He could of traveled closer to dad's.
We only have his word for him camping where he claimed IRRC.
JP had a head start and an umbilical cord attached to dad (SP)

Seems JP used gasoline, fire and axe as his choice of weapons........
hindsite could be 20/20
 
Well if the rental car had more than 200 miles put on it, but I'm assuming less than 300 (or they would have just said 300), then anything beyond a 150 mile radius is out of the question, right? He says he left the house at 12:30 (though he could be lying). What time did he say he got home?

ETA: Ack. I see a post on this thread that says he put 1000 miles on the rental car. That would be like what, 14 or 16 hours of driving? Is that even possible? I think we need to pin down exactly how many miles he drove.
 
momtective said:
I hear the word "Mine"...is there a way to locate all of the mines within a certain proximity of where he was thought to have been camping?
Click to expand...

http://ugspub.nr.utah.gov/publications/misc_pubs/MP-05-5.pdf

When exploring any mining district, remember to
stay out of abandoned mines. There are an estimated
20,000 abandoned mine openings in Utah that pose a
variety of dangers to the unsuspecting explorer: caveins,
falls, undetonated explosives, pockets of deadly
air and gases, radioactivity, hazardous waste, water
hazards, and animals. The explorer should also be
familiar with mine-dump toxicity before visiting a
mining district. Some mine dumps contain elevated
levels of toxic chemicals, such as uranium, arsenic,
and mercury that can be harmful if digested or inhaled
Click to expand...

I don't know how anyone would even begin to search in Utah. The sheer number of mines and then throw in the dangerous aspects - geez. This document does have lots of info and maps though.
 
I don't put too much stock that the "looking for crystals" comment will help locate her. If it is something the family had done in the past, it is something JP may well have just said to them as an explanation for being out in wherever they were - not suburbia. I think the mine thing is quite likely. So if it's not somewhere he is familiar with, he would have had to get some help locating a suitable place, using the internet, a physical publication or his father. Hopefully not a book or map he had the foresight to dispose of.
 
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