Coincidences

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MurriFlower

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The shorts for a cop show on TV recently had the super sleuth saying (every ad break), "There are no coincidences in murder!"

Well, I'm not sure I agree with that. Coincidences exist everywhere so you can expect them whether you are investigating a murder or just searching for a long lost relative.

Still, I'm also sure that you need to look at coincidences very carefully, so I thought I'd start a thread so we can see what coincidences occurred in the JBR case.

One that's struck me is that LHP asked PR for a loan of $2,000.

Then a day or so later, someone wrote a RN asking JR for $118,000 in return for the life of JBR.

Two relatively small amounts to ask of millionaires.

What could you buy with $120k in 1996?

I'm sure everyone has seen something they thought oddly coincidental.

Let's list them here.
 
I'm sorry, I don't see the coincidence here. LHP requested a loan of 2K. A fairly large sum of money for someone like LHP, who would have to repay the loan.

The fake RN asks for a ransom of 118K. An absurdly small and strangely specific amount.

But I'll play along. Here's my "coincidence" - there is a RN and a dead body in the same house.
 
The "intruder/s" Lucked out and coincidentially brought along the same kind of pineapple Patsy bought...but he/she/they forgot a pen & paper!:crazy:
 
If an intruder was there, was it a coincidence that the Ramsey's left their flashlight readily available for them to use? Or was it coincidence that the intruder knew where to look for it?
 
Chrishope said:
I'm sorry, I don't see the coincidence here. LHP requested a loan of 2K. A fairly large sum of money for someone like LHP, who would have to repay the loan.

The fake RN asks for a ransom of 118K. An absurdly small and strangely specific amount.

But I'll play along. Here's my "coincidence" - there is a RN and a dead body in the same house.
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RN and dead body in the same house is less a coincidence and more a paradox.

A coincidence would be two events that occur that strikingly suggest a relationship but where one may or may not exist.

Was it a coincidence that a contemporaneous ransom note was found in the same house as a murder victim? Yes but its a moot point because we're all assuming and in agreement they are related.
 
Coincidences:

December 25 is Christmas Day. December 25 is the day JBR was murdered. Is there a relationship or not? According to RDI, stress peaked and thats the extent of it. Of course there's a helluva lot more stress in other households but nobody's strangling and bashing kids heads in.

December 25-26, 1996 is the day JBR was murdered. December 25-26, 1991 is the day a country named the Soviet Union ceased to exist. The ransom note author wrote of a disrespect for this country. Hmm. I was searching for any other country that was referenced in the crime...
 
joeskidbeck said:
Hi Steely! Good to see you here. Do you think the amount requested in the rn is a coincidence?
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IIRC, the exact amount being mentioned is one of the things that made the Ramseys suspects at the beginning because the police wondered how anyone would know that exact amount. With the subsequent information that has come out over the years proving the Ramseys innocent, DNA wise, I think it has to be somebody he worked with and had a reason to hold a grudge.

I sometimes wonder if JR knows who it is but for some reason cannot say.
 
Steely Dan said:
IIRC, the exact amount being mentioned is one of the things that made the Ramseys suspects at the beginning because the police wondered how anyone would know that exact amount. With the subsequent information that has come out over the years proving the Ramseys innocent, DNA wise, I think it has to be somebody he worked with and had a reason to hold a grudge.

I sometimes wonder if JR knows who it is but for some reason cannot say.
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The intruder could find that out simply while strolling around in the house that afternoon. JMO.
 
Holdontoyourhat said:
The intruder could find that out simply while strolling around in the house that afternoon. JMO.
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He could have also found out that the Ramsey's were a lot richer than he ever suspected so why didn't he ask for more money? $118,000. would not have lasted very long in Boulder (or anywhere else for that matter).

If it was not one of the Ramsey family and JR knows who did this, IMO he is just as guilty for not turning that person in.
 
joeskidbeck said:
He could have also found out that the Ramsey's were a lot richer than he ever suspected so why didn't he ask for more money? $118,000. would not have lasted very long in Boulder (or anywhere else for that matter).

If it was not one of the Ramsey family and JR knows who did this, IMO he is just as guilty for not turning that person in.
Click to expand...

No kidding, beck. Sounds like an attempt to make a fallguy out of someone who might know that.
 
SuperDave said:
No kidding, beck. Sounds like an attempt to make a fallguy out of someone who might know that.
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I think it might have been a message to JR. You know who I am but I know you can't say anything because of...

I don't know if that's true or if there was anything he was involved in that would be worse than identifying his kids murderer but it's a theory. JMO

The guy had to know that the body would be found and there was never any ransom demand, other than the letter, made. IIRC
 
I also thought there were rather too many coincidences with the McSanta family.

1. They visited dressed as Mr and Mrs Santa at the R's Christmas party just days before she was killed.
2. JBR took Santa on a tour of the house.
3. JBR told her friend's Mother that Secret Santa was visiting on Christmas night (no not Christmas eve - she was adamant).
4. McSanta's middle daughter, then 9, was abducted along with a friend in Longmont and witnessed the sexual molestation of her friend. The incident occurred on Dec. 26, 1974. No suspects were ever arrested. .
5. Mrs Santa wrote a play in 1976, called "Hey Rube," about the sexual assault, torture and murder of a girl whose body was found in a basement.
6. One son was known to have been to the house when he delivered a gingerbread house from his bakery.
7. The other son had done two and a half years in an Arizona prison for conspiracy, aggravated robbery and kidnapping and had no corroborated alibi for Christmas night 1996

Even McSanta said "the abduction of his own daughter and the play are coincidences"

Hmmmmmm.
 
I never knew about that McSanta stuff. Very interesting, thanks.
 
MurriFlower said:
I also thought there were rather too many coincidences with the McSanta family.

1. They visited dressed as Mr and Mrs Santa at the R's Christmas party just days before she was killed.
2. JBR took Santa on a tour of the house.
3. JBR told her friend's Mother that Secret Santa was visiting on Christmas night (no not Christmas eve - she was adamant).
4. McSanta's middle daughter, then 9, was abducted along with a friend in Longmont and witnessed the sexual molestation of her friend. The incident occurred on Dec. 26, 1974. No suspects were ever arrested. .
5. Mrs Santa wrote a play in 1976, called "Hey Rube," about the sexual assault, torture and murder of a girl whose body was found in a basement.
6. One son was known to have been to the house when he delivered a gingerbread house from his bakery.
7. The other son had done two and a half years in an Arizona prison for conspiracy, aggravated robbery and kidnapping and had no corroborated alibi for Christmas night 1996

Even McSanta said "the abduction of his own daughter and the play are coincidences"

Hmmmmmm.
Click to expand...
Do you believe that the McReynolds were checked out thoroughly?
 
joeskidbeck said:
Do you believe that the McReynolds were checked out thoroughly?
Click to expand...

I think he was but I would not be surprised in the least if somehow something related to this family is related to this crime. I am not even sure that all of that information is true but if it is, that is probably the smoking gun of coincidences.

The attempted assault of the other pageant girl, Amy, being a close second.
 
Roy23 said:
I think he was but I would not be surprised in the least if somehow something related to this family is related to this crime. I am not even sure that all of that information is true but if it is, that is probably the smoking gun of coincidences.

The attempted assault of the other pageant girl, Amy, being a close second.
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IMO, the Boulder PD could have done a much better job of it. I think they immediately zoomed in on the Ramseys and paid little attention to anyone else. I'd say the reason for that is 70% because of the way the Ramseys acted after her abduction and 30% unskilled police work. If you were going to write a book on the worst way to handle an investigation of your daughters death the Ramsey case would be your prime example.

The new DA fell hook, line and sinker for JMK when 20 minutes of simple investigating would have proven he couldn't be the killer.
 
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