Flies and Maggots in the trunk - forensic entomology #1

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I totally agree that pizza, diapers, whatever else a person can come up with does NOT attract flies and propogate the larvae like decomposing biological material ( A body, whether animal or human).


It's the simplest- because dumpsters often stink. Dumpsters always have flies in S Florida. People are normally seen dumping 20 pounds of trash into a dumpster.
She would not be viewed as doing anything suspicious if she had been seen.

It also symbolizes her utter lack of conscience. She threw her daughter away in more ways than literally.

JMO
Maria

Thanks for the direct experience. I feel lucky to *not* have had much experience with maggots except when my kids find a bird or squirrel carcass. I too have gone on the theory that she literally dumped Caylee. All the water and woods scenarios sound like they would take too much time from Casey away from Casey and her made up life. That baby is in the landfill somewhere. :sick:

(O/T Maria, your Shih Tzu is absolutely beautiful. I have a little one year old boy Tzu and have kept him in a puppy cut. It's more "manly", lol. But I see yours and am reminded just what gorgeous long hair they have. And that bow is too cute.)
 
From page 316.

"[Simon] Birch is the facility manager of the wrecker yard....During he morning of July 15, 2008, while Mr. Birch was working at 7777 Narcoossee Road, Mr. Birch was sumond by witness Nicole Lett. Mrs. Lett was working in the front office of the tow yard and was dealing with two upset customers. Mr. Birch met with George Anthony and Cynthia Anthony. Ms. Anthony was upset with the cost of the tow, the length of the time the car was stowed, and requested a discount. Mr. Birch explained the cost of the tow and storage fees, and explained the notification process to Cynthia Anthony and George Anthony. Mr. Birch refused to give a discount. George Anthony agreed to pay for the release of the white Pontiac, providing the white Pontiac's title and his driver license. Mr. Birch took Mr. Anthony into the tow yard to get the car.

"As they walked, George Anthony mentioned to Mr. Birch his daughter had been missing for awhile, now she will not allow him to see his granddaughter, and has told him several lies. When they reached the white Pontiac, George Anthony used a key to unlock the white Pontiac's driver side door. When the door opened, a very foul odor came from inside the white Pontiac. Mr. Birch immediately recognised the odor as the same odor he smelled in a car stored on the log in which a man committed suicide inside. The man was reported to have remained deceased in the car for approximately five days. The smell from the white Pontiac was not as strong as the other car. Mr. Birch stated, "That's rotten." George Anthony did not reply. George Anthony and Mr. Birch went to the white Pontiac's trunk in an attempt to locate the source of the odor. George Anthony opened the trunk and he and Mr. Birch observed a white garbage bag inside the trunk. Flies also came out of the trunk. Mr. Birch opened the garbage bag and observed several papers, a pizza box, and maggots. Mr. Birch threw the garbage bag over the fence near the tow lot's dumpster."

Originally Posted by QuickAttack

If you have a queasy stomach, PLEASE DO NOT READ THIS.

I really hate to be morbid, but the documents that were released last night leave little wiggle room.

The towyard manager said that when he opened the trunk, flies flew out and there were maggots inside.

A trunk is a sealed environment. Flies will not attempt to enter something like a closed, sealed trunk to lay eggs on a pizza box. Even if that pizza box had pizza in it, it just isn't going to happen. Think about the times you've left a half-eaten hamburger on the floorboard of your car. (I'm guilty of this...commuting to work, high-stress job, forgot about the half Big Mac I left in the car for a week.) Think about the Taco Bell bag you left on the back seat...people with kids will admit that we've occasionally left food in the car and forgotten to remove it.

Sometime in their life cycle, those flies entered that trunk with Caylee's body.

I believe that Caylee's body was stored outside somewhere...somewhere that flies could have laid eggs on the corpse. It could have been stored there for as brief as several hours or as long as several days.

Casey worried that the body would be found wherever she left it. Or maybe she knew the dumpster-emptying schedule for the waste company in Orlando. At any rate, she went back to remove the body from the place she had left it, and she put it in her trunk.

Possibly, the corpse stayed in the trunk from the time she retrieved it until the second time she dumped it. The second dumping of the corpse could have been done on the evening of the 26th, early AM hours of the 27th (the time window when her car was left at Amscot, parked by the dumpster).

When she loaded the decomposing corpse into the trunk the second time, fluids leaked out. Clumps of hair fell out. Possibly decomposing flesh detached from the body. Decomposing flesh with maggots already hatching.

When she removed the body from her trunk (to possibly place in the Amscot dumpster), some of those pieces of flesh with maggots were left behind, possibly on the white garbage bag in the trunk.

This would explain why there were flies and maggots in the trunk when the towyard manager opened it.

Let's look at a generalized life cycle of the species of flies that assists in decomposition of a body (if we knew the exact species, we could be less generalized in the life cycle):

From egg to larva (maggot) is 2-5 days. Until day 5, the larvae are feeding on the body.

The larvae move away from the body to become pupae, and are adult flies on day 19 or 20. Adult flies feed on body fluids, mate immediately after emergence, and lay eggs within two days of emergence...and the cycle begins again.

So, to summarize this:

Day 1 - eggs laid.

Day 2 - eggs hatch.

Day 2 to 5 - larvae move into and around the body, feeding.

Day 6 to 19 - pupa stage, no feeding on corpse, mature flies will emerge from the hard case.

Day 20 - adult fly emerges, feeds.

Day 22 - adult fly lays eggs on corpse.

Therefore, the flies that were found in the trunk were second generation flies, as were the maggots, because the car sat sealed at the towyard for 16 days. The second generation had already emerged and begun laying eggs, which had hatched into maggot staged larvae.

I can't wait to see what a forensic entomologist will reveal about this case. I think that the transport of the corpse can be nailed down to within a couple of days using the life cycle of the flies that flew out of the trunk on July 16th.


Something else that always got me about the maggot pizza theory is that it has been my experience that pizza dries out. It doesn't rot. Perhaps if there were moisture in there, it might grow mildew but that's not something that attracts flies either. Maggots need rotting, raw meat. Pizza toppings are cooked and cured.
 
This is not a pretty post, so pass it up if you are squeamish.

Do we have any confirmation on maggots being found in the trunk of the car, or is it cloudy as to whether they were just in the garbage bag with the pizza?

If they were found in the trunk itself, outside the bag, then I hope they were collected for testing. It's almost unbelievable but they can test the stomach contents of a maggot and test it for DNA to determine what -- and who it has been feeding upon.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1324291/New-DNA-test-helps-police-inquiries.html

One unusual application was in a case in which the police found bluebottles and maggots at a potential crime scene - a bedroom - and suspected a body had been concealed there for some time before being removed.

However, after studying one maggot, traces of human DNA were detected and the profile matched to that of the person who had habitually slept in the bed, suggesting that the larvae had developed in the bed fabric.

Really, though, it doesn't matter whether the maggots were found in the trunk or the bag, if they test out as having Caylee's DNA. The fact that a maggot fed on her body would provide nearly certain confirmation of her death.

I wonder how long such a test by entomologists would take?
 
I don't know exactly where they got the maggots, but I think it would be great if they saved them for examination.
 
The bag was taken for testing and they are doing forensics on the car so Id say without a doubt they are testing those maggots. Only thing I wonder tho is what generation the maggots were, like when the flies lay their eggs then hatch into maggots, they then turn into flies and lay more eggs and hatch into more maggots and so on and so on, so if they werent 'fresh' maggots, hard to tell if they couldve been exposed to the body.
 
That's a good question Misfit76. Let us hope that this this is one of the results that help solve this case. I am almost certain that every thing in this case, should it come to trial, will be circumstantial evidence based heavily on timeline and exclusion of other possibilities, very much the same as the Laci Peterson case.

If they are able to show maggots found in the trunk contained Caylee's DNA then I think that is a big piece for the purpose of exclusion. Although we still have the possibility that Cindy is claiming JG put Caylee in the trunk. To me that is still silly because what are we to believe-- that he had motive? That he had opportunity? That he had keys to the car? That he ever even had Caylee in the first place to even put her in the trunk? That on top of all that he went back and got the body out again? That he was able to fool a poly?
 
I should not have read this, I am really squeamish - argh.

I am sure that LE had the sense to test the maggots. that just makes this case all the more sickening for me, can you imagine if it turns out the DNA is in them, how could anyone stand to hear that at trial, the evidence of the bits of your baby inside maggots, it is so horrible and sickening, I couldnt stand it, I think I would actually die.

then again, I wasnt the one that "lost" my baby...
 
That's a good question Misfit76. Let us hope that this this is one of the results that help solve this case. I am almost certain that every thing in this case, should it come to trial, will be circumstantial evidence based heavily on timeline and exclusion of other possibilities, very much the same as the Laci Peterson case.

If they are able to show maggots found in the trunk contained Caylee's DNA then I think that is a big piece for the purpose of exclusion. Although we still have the possibility that Cindy is claiming JG put Caylee in the trunk. To me that is still silly because what are we to believe-- that he had motive? That he had opportunity? That he had keys to the car? That he ever even had Caylee in the first place to even put her in the trunk? That on top of all that he went back and got the body out again? That he was able to fool a poly?

Is that something that you've seen reported? Or is it speculation? Not being snarky :) I'm genuinely wondering if I had missed Cindy implying that JG was involved.
 
Is that something that you've seen reported? Or is it speculation? Not being snarky :) I'm genuinely wondering if I had missed Cindy implying that JG was involved.

Jesse, himself, says he heard that CA was implicating him.

Let's see. Did Jesse have a motive to do this? Did KC have a motive to do this? Who does one pick? Other than the obvious who really had a motive to get rid of Caylee?

Science is truly amazing, isn't it. Whoda thunk you could see what a maggot ate????
 
Jesse, himself, says he heard that CA was implicating him.

Let's see. Did Jesse have a motive to do this? Did KC have a motive to do this? Who does one pick? Other than the obvious who really had a motive to get rid of Caylee?

Science is truly amazing, isn't it. Whoda thunk you could see what a maggot ate????

wow, thanks eastside and cjm! I had not heard that yet! Doesn't surprise me though! And yes, it's truly amazing that you can find out what a maggot ate. Also, assuming the maggots were there because of the decomposition in the trunk, isn't it possible to find out what stage of decomposition the body was in when the maggots fed off it? I seem to remember seeing it on one of those crime shows...that by examining the insects on a body, you can kind of get an idea of when a person died. Should be interesting to see how things progress with that aspect of the evidence. Do you think they found the maggots though? I thought George had thrown the pizza bag into the trash at the tow shop?
 
That bag was retrieved by LE so they do have it. Yes, they can tell alot of things like how long something has been dead by the age & feeding cycles of the maggots. BLECH.
 
GA removed the white plastic bag & the owner of the towing yard threw it over the fence towards the dumpster area. LE had to retreave that. GA must have cleaned out the car pretty good, Cindy was "airing" our the car in the garage when they all got to the house. Already washed the clothing. IMO...the A' team did a nice job, disturbing the maggots and ridding of most of them.

GA- must of not been the smartest cop on the force. No wonder he decided to go into auto business. According to Lee he is a very maticulous auto-detailer. IMO- what an @$$!

Maggots/flies were already discussed in another thread.
 
If there was a "poopy diaper" in the trash bag, it would certainly breed maggots. You'd be surprised how easily flies can get into a "Sealed" environment.

I agree with the life cycle timeline, however. Just not that the only explanation is a corpse.

I have left poopy diapers in my car for several weeks (changed daughter and put diaper aside when I was dressing her) and I live in Florida and never got maggots.

It also would not account for the smell everyone describes. If KC smelled it enough to make up the squirrel story to AH she would have looked for a stray diaper, of course, unless she knew it was something else....
 
Wonder if she was potty trained yet? My grandson just turned three and he is.. I was thinking mine where trained by 2 anyway.

One of KC's 2 text about her daughter in late May (?) said the Caylee went #2 in the potty for the first time. Since most kids just don't get it the first time she was probably not completely trained. Since "Fusion" does not have a kid potty I doubt that there was much opportunity to work on it... sad.
 
I don't think that George ever saw Casey and retrieved the gas cans from her trunk...I think that was a lie to help establish a defense fact.

I have thought that too. I often wonder if George cleaned up the car. Why would a guy who worked on detailing cars let that stand the way it was? And for that kind of smell? I think he knows and that is why LP says he stays away all day... he knows... He was in LE, he is not stupid. He says "that body is not MY granddaughter"... very telling. Freudian slip.
 
Wonder if she was potty trained yet? My grandson just turned three and he is.. I was thinking mine where trained by 2 anyway.

It has been clarified in the audio tape interviews (i believe of Lee) that she was not completely potty trained and still wore diapers.
 
Does anyone know about a death ring found on hair in trunk? What is a death ring? I think I read somewhere it was Caylee's hair...........isn't this enough to arrest her?
 
i think the search groups should check the young pine landfill
 
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