MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #8

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CoolJ said:
I don't know exactly when you stop being a kid, but 18 is a kid IMO. Spend some time around a bunch of 18 yr olds and you will see what I mean.
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Are you trying to say that because you think 18 is still a child, that MB is not responsible for his actions? That he couldn't help it? I think the problem with MB was that he was probably never held accountable.
 
I don't know why Mike Brady would be in damage control mode (I wonder if he has a lawyer who arranged the new interview?). Do mean since his other interview conflicts with the two female witnesses? To me he is credible in telling his story, he even said his story isn't going to change about seeing MB's arms down, not up.

But I wondered too why he didn't hear the gun go off at the car. If he was not being truthful I guess he could have said he heard it, so that almost gives him more credibility in a way, imo.
I'm picturing his view of the police car to be directly out his front door towards the street because of the angle of MB's body in the video they ran during the interview.
 
popsicle said:
St. Louis County PD ‏@stlcountypd 6m

Some of you may have already seen the video of the St. Louis County Police Officer speaking off-duty at an Oath Keepers event. If you haven't we are sure you will in the coming days as news circulates the release of the video.

Chief Jon Belmar was notified of this video's existence today and upon a abbreviated viewing of the video was disturbed by the conversation being had. Chief Belmar does not expect this kind of rhetoric from his officers, just like they don't expect it from him.

Chief Belmar, on behalf of the St. Louis County Police Department, would like to apologize to the community, anyone that video has or will effect, and to the other hard working officers on the detail with the officer in question because they deserve better than that. While the officer has never been involved in an officer involved shooting, the statements made about killing are unacceptable and not what we are about as a Department.

We hold our officers to a high standard of honor both on and off duty. While we as a department do not have an issue with officers expressing themselves, this was disturbing and unacceptable. The officer is a 35 year veteran of this department and has been deployed numerous times in military service. He had passed the evaluations upon returning from deployment and there was no indication of this attitude.

Chief Belmar would again like to apologize to anyone this video has offended and aska any videos of this nature be reported so we can take proper action against any officer not meeting our standards.
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Is this about the cop who aimed his gun at someone (reporter?) in the crowd?
 
katydid23 said:
And that is EXACTLY my point. It seems that MB was willing to take the cops life that day. They struggled over control of the gun, which went off. If Wilson had lost control then he would have been dead. So I have no problem with him using deadly force to bring down MB. Imo, MB made those violent, illegal choices himself, that led to his death.

When you were a teen, and a cop stopped to talk to you and your friends, on a weekend afternoon, did any of your friends shove the cop back into the car, slam the door then punch him in the face and head? That is more than just 'bad choices' by a silly teen, imo.
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No it doesn't. He did not attack the cop with a weapon. He may have fought with him at the car but there is nothing that says his intention was to kill a cop. I just don't know what happened at the car. I am not willing to take any account as gospel as of yet.

I think there is a possibility that both made mistakes that day. I think there is a possibility that the officer overreacted and until that is alleviated for me, I just am fence sitting. I can see lots of possibilities that day.
 
TexanMom said:
Are you trying to say that because you think 18 is still a child, that MB is not responsible for his actions? That he couldn't help it? I think the problem with MB was that he was probably never held accountable.
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I don't think he is a child but I do think all 18 yr olds are still teens and kids.
 
katydid23 said:
Okay. So what if it comes out that the cop had a bad employment record with the department? Would that just be 'stupid' things he did as a rookie? And it only matters what happened that day?
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The Officer's record/history as well as MB's juvenile record are important. My opinion is that each would show pattern of behavior.
 
Long time lurker, first time poster. I hope I do this correctly. I just wanted to add a link that may have been overlooked.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1408/20/ng.01.html
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1408/20/ng.01.html[/URL]
Nancy Grace: Everybody, for those of you just joining us, a secret grand jury is meeting as we speak, all through this afternoon, we understand into the
evening, to determine whether to indict the police officer that gunned down an unarmed teen.
Joining me here on the set, Daryl Parks, who is joining us. He is taking the side of Michael Brown. He is the lawyer for Michael Brown`s
family.
All right, Daryl Parks, we are gets reports, and I`m reading directly from wires, that state that the officer, the police officer who gunned down
Michael Brown, suffered -- OK, let me just phrase -- let me phrase this. I`ve had reporters that did not want to come on the air tonight because
they are afraid to tell you, to state publicly what I`m about to tell you, because they are afraid of threats, OK?
But I`m going to tell you that there are reports this police officer has suffered severe facial injuries, including an orbital eye socket
fracture, and was nearly beaten unconscious by your clients` son, Michael Brown, before firing his gun.
Now, do I know this to be true? I do not. These are reports coming out of the prosecution`s camp. And I am wondering what your response is.
I want to hear it from you, Daryl, because if Michael Brown beat this cop in the face to start things off, then no jury in this -- no grand jury i
going indict him.
DARYL PARKS, BROWN FAMILY ATTORNEY: Well, first of all, Nancy, without question, we know that there was a major altercation at the car.
There`s no question about that. So you`ll never hear me say there wasn`t a major altercation within the car. There was even a gunshot...
GRACE: Well, with the car...
PARKS: Within the car.
GRACE: ... or at the car?
PARKS: At the car.
GRACE: So you say it happened in the car?
PARKS: The officer was still partially in the car, is what we`ve been told.[/B][/B] Now, take into consideration in this case that we have a video of
the officer right after. He`s standing there with the other officer...
I had seen the other link to a NG comment regarding a "strong interaction" but not a link to this one admitting that there was a gunshot within the car.
 
Wow! I doubt the protesters knew that though. But yeah, that hits close to home if that's what DW's version is...

katydid23 said:
OH MY ! :thud: :thud: :thud: :thud:

Watching Hardball. Just learned more about McCullogh, the prosecutors father's death. I knew he was a cop killed by a black man. BUT THE KILLER GRABBED THE GUN FROM HIS HOLSTER!!!!!! oh my. No wonder the protestors are worried.
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AuburnTxTiger said:
CoolJ said:
I don't know exactly when you stop being a kid, but 18 is a kid IMO. Spend some time around a bunch of 18 yr olds and you will see what I mean.[/QUOT

What are your thoughts on a cut off age for being an adult? Whether a person is legally an adult or not, there has to be accountability for ones actions. In my mind, when I was in college, most all college students were immature. So, should the cut off for being an adult be 22 or 23 years old? Most if not all states have laws that at the age of 18 years old, one is considered an adult. Also, if a 12 year old had committed a strong armed robbery, or shown disrespect for LE by not getting out of the middle of the street when traffic was being blocked, he or she would be held accountable in juvenile court. The following is a general statement and not directed at MB, but it bothers me seeing young adults exhibit the lack of respect for others including LE. It also bothers me that many young teens as well as young adults are not being held accountable for their actions beginning at a very young age. Just my opinion.
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Well from a legal standpoint you have to put a number on it and that number is 18 in most parts of the world. But in my mind 90% of 18 year olds are dumb as a brick wall. Myself included when I was that age... But there is a chance they are getting dumber... I am only half joking :)
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CoolJ said:
IMO there is absolutely no basis to suggest that MB was willing to take anyone's life ANY day... That is an assumption... Maybe the struggle was because MB was truly in fear for his own life.. We don't know what the struggle was about. I have no problem at all with anyone who decides to believe officer Wilson's version of these events, but people should understand that is all it is.... Actually we don't even know that for sure... It is more accurate to say that it is 2nd hand testimony as to Wilson's version. This narrative is coming from ONE source. there are other sides to this story.
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From what I have read, I think there is reason to believe that. They struggled over the gun in the car. Even Parks the family atty admits that. How do you struggle over the cops weapon and then say you weren't willing to shoot someone?

There are a few witnesses who describe seeing MB 'punching at' the officer in the car. That happened before the struggle over the gun. So I have reason to believe that this kid assaulted the officer. I see nothing that shows he was in fear for his own life at that point. He was in fear of being arrested, imo.
 
LambChop said:
Well, I have to agree. Ask any mother of an 18 year old male. They will all tell you the same. Even though in the eyes of the law they are an adult they still act like a kid and continue until they are forced to take responsibility. Getting a job, going off to college, managing their life, etc. jmo
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BBM Thank you. I'm a parent of and often surrounded by young adults of this age, and it always rubs me wrong when I hear someone insult them by calling bad behavior "typical".

At the bottom of this mess, IMHO, is usually one thing - bad parenting and other people's (like Parks and too many others) low expectations instead of teaching responsibility and high standards.
 
Well, I just have to say this. I don't care who you are, if you have reached the age of 18 and don't know that it is a very bad idea, a potentially DEADLY idea, to reach into a police vehicle and (let's just say) 'vigorously interact' with the armed officer then you have clearly been living in the land of fluffy bunnies and sparkly unicorns somewhere far removed from the world the rest of us inhabit.

Because honestly, IN MY OPINION, maybe walking down the middle of the street is one thing (the street, you know, where vehicles are driving and you are not supposed to be walking for your own safety and the safety of others) maybe mouthing off to a LEO is one thing, maybe refusing to obey orders is one thing, but reaching into a police car and 'struggling' with the officer?? You're an <mod snip>.

There, I said it.
 
Whatever the outcome of the investigation - I am disgusted by people's behavior. Why can't people just act with class, composure, consideration for others and respect for the law? <modsnip> A young man is dead and an officer of the law is living in fear. This is a situation that should not be tried in the court of public opinion and raw emotion. I Am Disgusted!
 
TexanMom said:
Are you trying to say that because you think 18 is still a child, that MB is not responsible for his actions? That he couldn't help it? I think the problem with MB was that he was probably never held accountable.
Click to expand...
No, definitely not saying he shouldn't be responsible for his actions. Absolutely not.
As far as him never being held accountable, I have no idea how someone could make that type of judgement without knowing thing one about anything to do with his life or his background or what he was or wasn't held accountable for, maybe others can make that judgement somehow but I don't get it. At All.
 
katydid23 said:
From what I have read, I think there is reason to believe that. They struggled over the gun in the car. Even Parks the family atty admits that. How do you struggle over the cops weapon and then say you weren't willing to shoot someone?

There are a few witnesses who describe seeing MB 'punching at' the officer in the car. That happened before the struggle over the gun. So I have reason to believe that this kid assaulted the officer. I see nothing that shows he was in fear for his own life at that point. He was in fear of being arrested, imo.
Click to expand...

Because maybe the struggle was about not letting Wilson shoot him. Maybe he was merely trying to save his own life. Can you see how that is a possibility?
 
tfog said:
Long time lurker, first time poster. I hope I do this correctly. I just wanted to add a link that may have been overlooked.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1408/20/ng.01.html
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1408/20/ng.01.html[/URL]
Nancy Grace: Everybody, for those of you just joining us, a secret grand jury is meeting as we speak, all through this afternoon, we understand into the
evening, to determine whether to indict the police officer that gunned down an unarmed teen.
Joining me here on the set, Daryl Parks, who is joining us. He is taking the side of Michael Brown. He is the lawyer for Michael Brown`s
family.
All right, Daryl Parks, we are gets reports, and I`m reading directly from wires, that state that the officer, the police officer who gunned down
Michael Brown, suffered -- OK, let me just phrase -- let me phrase this. I`ve had reporters that did not want to come on the air tonight because
they are afraid to tell you, to state publicly what I`m about to tell you, because they are afraid of threats, OK?
But I`m going to tell you that there are reports this police officer has suffered severe facial injuries, including an orbital eye socket
fracture, and was nearly beaten unconscious by your clients` son, Michael Brown, before firing his gun.
Now, do I know this to be true? I do not. These are reports coming out of the prosecution`s camp. And I am wondering what your response is.
I want to hear it from you, Daryl, because if Michael Brown beat this cop in the face to start things off, then no jury in this -- no grand jury i
going indict him.
DARYL PARKS, BROWN FAMILY ATTORNEY: Well, first of all, Nancy, without question, we know that there was a major altercation at the car.
There`s no question about that. So you`ll never hear me say there wasn`t a major altercation within the car. There was even a gunshot...
GRACE: Well, with the car...
PARKS: Within the car.
GRACE: ... or at the car?
PARKS: At the car.
GRACE: So you say it happened in the car?
PARKS: The officer was still partially in the car, is what we`ve been told.[/B][/B] Now, take into consideration in this case that we have a video of
the officer right after. He`s standing there with the other officer...
I had seen the other link to a NG comment regarding a "strong interaction" but not a link to this one admitting that there was a gunshot within the car.
Click to expand...

Welcome to websleuths! I, too, was a lurker, and then took the plunge last month. Everyone has a right to his or her opinion. I look forward to reading yours.
 
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