RDI poll/the Stines

Do the Stines know what happened?
IMO SS's behaviour is a bit bizarre.
They were basically the last people who saw/talked to the R's that night.Is it a coincidence that they WEREN'T called over that morning.
Dunno if it's true but it's been said that SS made a list with 30 reasons why FW might be the killer.Why did she do that,strange.

And I'll ask again,are there any neighbours who can confirm that the R's arrived home at 9pm?

.....I also don't understand why they offered to let the R's live with them.I'm sorry no matter how much I cared about a friend the Stines have a child themselves.I would have been terrified for the safety of my own child.Why was no one afraid?Also the Whites and Fernies....they left their children and ran over to assist the R's early in the morning.Why was no one concerned about their own children's safety?

madeleine said:

Do the Stines know what happened?
IMO SS's behaviour is a bit bizarre.
They were basically the last people who saw/talked to the R's that night.Is it a coincidence that they WEREN'T called over that morning.
Dunno if it's true but it's been said that SS made a list with 30 reasons why FW might be the killer.Why did she do that,strange.

And I'll ask again,are there any neighbours who can confirm that the R's arrived home at 9pm?

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madeleine,

Who knows what they knew? The R's patently told them some version of events. SS assisted the R's in many ways, some not entirely legal, misrepresenting herself online etc.

I've never seen any neighbour stating they saw the R's arriving home.


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The Stines are probably the only people who could testify as to what time the Ramseys arrived home that night (judging by when they left their house). I think the Stines probably know everything about this crime, including exactly what killed JonBenet.

I was thinking that maybe "JB fell asleep in the car" is important to them not because it helps them deny the "JB eating pineapple" issue but because they were afraid someone might have seen JR carrying a dead JB. (car>house)
LE didn't check whether the Stines had pineapple in their fridge I am sure.
I just find it weird when JR says well,we had other gifts to drop but we didn't wanna waste another 15 minutes because we wanted to rest.IMO if Patsy had gifts to drop,she would have dropped them.

joeskidbeck said:

The Stines are probably the only people who could testify as to what time the Ramseys arrived home that night (judging by when they left their house). I think the Stines probably know everything about this crime, including exactly what killed JonBenet.

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But why cover up for them?For fun?For Glen to get a new job?
Maybe they went in and something happened with JB when she was playing with Doug and BR.(explains everybody's behaviour)
Did they ever test Doug's DNA (elimination process)?

The JR/Mills depo was an interesting read,thanks again cici.
Brings up another interesting question.
Does Bynum know the truth if RDI?
Still confused about this guy.When exactly did he learn about the crime and why did he wanna take care of things?
Cause JR's lawyer makes sure JR doesn't answer this question,whether he went there as a friend or lawyer.Some say it could be Bynum who the R's called that morning and that's why they don't want the phone records unsealed.What do you think?

If the Stines are involved it is because Doug was there with Burke that night. When my kids were younger we always had a couple extra when we went on trips. I'm not saying that Burke/Doug did it, but if they were both awake and know what happened, then both families would be in on the cover up. I've never been convinced that the Grand Jury wasn't presented a scenario that involved Burke. No way the state of Colorado would let that info out and the Ramseys sued anyone who spoke of Burke.

joeskidbeck said:

If the Stines are involved it is because Doug was there with Burke that night.

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Ramsey home or Stines home?

I don't know I kind of think if both boys were somehow responsible it would not lead to that united happy front the R's/Stines seemed to be.IMO it would lead more to a R/White situation were blame is shifted and no one trusts no one any more.
I just can't guess at all what bonded these two families.....and why they were not called that morning?....that's the big question....
were the ones called suspects in the R's eyes after all?did they call them to reassure themselves they had nothing to do with this?
why were the stines throwing stones at the whites?...it's just all really,really strange....

madeleine said:

The JR/Mills depo was an interesting read,thanks again cici.
Brings up another interesting question.
Does Bynum know the truth if RDI?
Still confused about this guy.When exactly did he learn about the crime and why did he wanna take care of things?
Cause JR's lawyer makes sure JR doesn't answer this question,whether he went there as a friend or lawyer.Some say it could be Bynum who the R's called that morning and that's why they don't want the phone records unsealed.What do you think?

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I think Bynum knows the truth, and he was called shortly after it happened. He WAS a friend, but obviously he was also a lawyer and the Rs were very aware of that. Those phone records would reveal a LOT the RST doesn't want revealed. They will never be unsealed. Too many powerful people want to keep them secret.

DeeDee249 said:

I think Bynum knows the truth, and he was called shortly after it happened. He WAS a friend, but obviously he was also a lawyer and the Rs were very aware of that. Those phone records would reveal a LOT the RST doesn't want revealed. They will never be unsealed. Too many powerful people want to keep them secret.

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What about Beuf?I didn't know that both the Beufs were also family friends.I never saw/heard the man talking.What kind of guy is he.I remember he put JB's records in a deposit box and claimed he was hiding them from the media.Did he ever hand them over to LE?Or did LE need a warrant for it.Did they get one?

madeleine said:

What about Beuf?I didn't know that both the Beufs were also family friends.I never saw/heard the man talking.What kind of guy is he.I remember he put JB's records in a deposit box and claimed he was hiding them from the media.Did he ever hand them over to LE?Or did LE need a warrant for it.Did they get one?

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Dr. Beuf played golf with the Rs at their country club. They were friends on a personal level as well as his being their family pediatrician. Some accounts describe him as being awed by the Rs wealth and social position in Boulder. I don't know if anyone at the BPD ever got to see JB's medical records, but the DA refused the police a warrant to obtain them. Police would need a warrant.

Burke is an adult now, IIRC.
Has anyone ever heard His story?
Surely he remembers that night.
IIRC his voice was even in the background of the 911 call.
He would know about the wetting bed? pineapple?
Did anyone ever ask Burke questions???

madeleine said:

I was thinking that maybe "JB fell asleep in the car" is important to them not because it helps them deny the "JB eating pineapple" issue but because they were afraid someone might have seen JR carrying a dead JB. (car>house)
LE didn't check whether the Stines had pineapple in their fridge I am sure.
I just find it weird when JR says well,we had other gifts to drop but we didn't wanna waste another 15 minutes because we wanted to rest.IMO if Patsy had gifts to drop,she would have dropped them.

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Madeleine, you may be on to something here. Something could have happened at the Stine's that set this whole thing into motion. Have you given this scenario much consideration?

passionflower said:

Burke is an adult now, IIRC.
Has anyone ever heard His story?
Surely he remembers that night.
IIRC his voice was even in the background of the 911 call.
He would know about the wetting bed? pineapple?
Did anyone ever ask Burke questions???

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I am sure you realize that no one was allowed to ask BR questions without his parents' approval because of his age. JR hired a lawyer for his sons right away, and that alone would prevent most voluntary questioning. There was some VERY limited questioning done at the time, and some interviews with a psychiatrist, where some unusual results were reported.
BR can NEVER be compelled to talk to police, not then and not now. For one, he was under the age of 10 (by 2 weeks!) and Colorado law forbids anyone under 10 from being accused, indicted, or even implicated, in a crime of ANY kind, even murder, and even if they are known to have committed it. This holds even when that child grows up and becomes an adult. End of story.
The whole family knew about JB's bedwetting. JB was known to go into BR's bed sometimes after she had wet her own.
His voice was on he 911 call, yes. But not enough of his comments were heard to determine if he knew at that point what happened and certainly there was no admission on his part of involvement.
It's a funny thing with kids. Children tend to remember events the way they are TOLD they happened, and not always the way they actually did happen. If BR had no involvement in the death of his sister, I can assure you he has been told my his parents their version of the events of the night.
I recall reading where Patsy said they never discussed JB's death with him at the time. I cannot believe in all these years there were no private discussion between them, yet somehow I wouldn't be shocked to find that they never discussed it. Ever.
BR will never bring it up of his own accord while his father is alive. And of course, if he IS involved, he'll never bring it up for that reason.
Either way, he cannot be compelled to talk to police, guilty or innocent.

joeskidbeck said:

Madeleine, you may be on to something here. Something could have happened at the Stine's that set this whole thing into motion. Have you given this scenario much consideration?

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At the Stines or while JR and PR were dropping gifts (JB and B left in the car,not only adults can be moody when tired after Xmas parties)

Yes I thought about it a lot. (JR carrying a dead OR injured JB in his arms).But JR saying he read to the kids doesn't fit in this theory.Maybe that was a lie as well but he realized it's not a good one?Saying he read to the kids would be a cover -up for the fact that something happened on the way home.But maybe they were later advised to change the story because they weren't sure whether the neighbours saw something or not.

passionflower said:

Burke is an adult now, IIRC.
Has anyone ever heard His story?

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Not me.

Surely he remembers that night.

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IF RDI I am sure he doesn't(he was sent to a shrink to deal with the drama(?)=to forget about it)

IIRC his voice was even in the background of the 911 call.

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Even if this is true(I never heard anything on the enchanced tape and IMO it's a bluff)I think they lied about it to protect him (for innocent purposes though)

madeleine said:

Not me.



IF RDI I am sure he doesn't(he was sent to a shrink to deal with the drama(?)=to forget about it)




)

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Not sure why this is particular to RDI. He surely remembers something about that night. Depending on how much he actually saw and heard, his memories may be inaccurate or unclear. OR they may me crystal clear. We simply have no way o knowing. I had read that as he grew up, went to college, etc, he shunned anyone who he felt pumped him for info on his sister's murder or who seemed to be interested in him simply because of it. I have never seen any RDI state that BR was sent to a shrink to forget what happened. We don't know if he saw a shrink at all, except for the one he saw right after the murder.

Dee,you said earlier

BR can NEVER be compelled to talk to police, not then and not now. For one, he was under the age of 10 (by 2 weeks!) and Colorado law forbids anyone under 10 from being accused, indicted, or even implicated, in a crime of ANY kind, even murder, and even if they are known to have committed it. This holds even when that child grows up and becomes an adult. End of story.

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What if for ex he comes and says "I remember X or Y or Z killed my sister".....I understand that LE can't force him to speak up but what if he volunteers one day?Okay,probably in this case X's or Y's lawyer will argue that he doesn't remember correctly.He still could make a witness even if not a good one,or?