17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #9

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I do not have the links readily to hand but they are out there, what I read is that she attempted to call police the night of but she is in Miami, and got routed to a different department, and her parents did get in touch with SPD, and told them they had information that their daughter was on the phone with TM when the incident occurred and they never recieved a call back.

TM's dad tracked her down by getting the detailed phone records for TM's phone, looking at the time of calls and the number called. IMO JMHO and stuff because I am too lazy to look for the links this morning, I need more coffee...

Me too. I'm really tired today.

Guys, I will post a link if I run into one.
 
This is very interesting.
http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2...mmerman-shortly-after-trayvon-martin-shooting.

- The detective did not believe GZ from the start?
- State attorney went to the scene that night?
- The state attorney made the decision overruling the investigator? WHY?
- INVESTIATOR DID WANT TO CHARGE GZ

This is all getting very strange. Since when does state attorney come ou at night?
I am starting to wonder if GZ's father did not pull in a lot of support for his son.

I am thinking GZ was a hot head - (But still legitimately wanting to watch this kid).
his father knew GZ is a hot head, but he also knew his son had no intentions to harm someone.

Whenever the Seminole Police is involved IMHO they DO NOT do a thorough job on any case.
 
Good point! Maybe his father (judge) talked to the police officers or even the state attorney. Nancy thinks something is not right with the no arrest. It probably has everything to do with who his father is. Though in retrospect they probably now think they made a mistake.

It's speculation but it does happen. There is no proof the father talked with anyone but given GZ's past and his ability to escape charges it does seem as if he was given a break everytime he managed to find himself in trouble. We all know it happens where family members are given a break by LE so it's not a stretch to think that a family member of a judge, or a family member of a city official would get a break. GZ's father certainly had no problem speaking to the media when he knows there's an ongoing investigation.

In any case I think GZ's father, like any father would support his son 100%. jmo
 
This is very interesting.
http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2...mmerman-shortly-after-trayvon-martin-shooting.

The detective did not believe GZ from the start.
State prosecutor OR state attorney went to the scene that night?
This is very strange.
I am starting to wonder if GZ's father did not pull
in a lot of support for his son.


This seems quite possible....I just did a google search to see if I could find an older article about his father as a judge prior to this incident. I went back 20 pages or so on the google hits to try to find info from PRIOR to this incident. While a number of sources do refer to him as a former judge in Virginia....the majority of the sources list him as a judge in ORANGE COUNTY FLORIDA!
 
So true. When I saw GZ's mug shot, I thought "scary dude!" But when I see him in his shirt and tie photo, I think he looks like a nice guy. It's been my experience that we're all guilty, to some degree, of often judging a book by its cover.

JMO, OMO, and :moo:
Sure we are. It would be dishonest to claim otherwise. Much like my three kitties responding to a neighborhood cat who wandered into the backyard a little while ago, we naturally assess anyone who is unfamiliar. We size them up, and as humans, we make judgments based on our beliefs and past experience. It's the "to some degree" part that makes the difference. Most of us behave in a civilized manner, and refrain from making a full judgment until we gain more knowledge of the other individual. When we react solely on our assumptions, however, our behavior is reckless and ultimately harmful. :moo:
 
apples/oranges

It's not the same at all and it's not having it both ways.

One is chasing someone with a loaded weapon, "assuming" they're committing a crime and suspicious, because of racial profiling, and the other is being afraid because you're being followed.

Trayvon WAS being followed, by GZ. That wasn't an assumption on his part because of what GZ looked like.

And GZ wasn't wearing a suit and tie when he was chasing Trayvon.

If it was me and that guy we saw in the video was chasing me I'd be real scared, especially if I was a 17 year old kid.
That's not the media's fault.

Has nothing to do with profiling, it's about that strange adult man following him.

JMHO

No way it's apples/oranges.

Racism is WRONG. Racial profiling is WRONG.
No matter who is on the giving or receiving end of it.

Until we can all agree that ALL racism is wrong, we are in a world of trouble.
 
This is very interesting.
http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2...mmerman-shortly-after-trayvon-martin-shooting.

- The detective did not believe GZ from the start?
- State atttorney went to the scene that night?
- HE DID WANT TO CHARGE GZ

This is all getting very strange. Since when does state attorney come ou at night?
I am starting to wonder if GZ's father did not pull in a lot of support for his son.

I am thinking GZ was a hot head - (But still legitimately wanting to watch this kid).
his father knew GZ is a hot head, but he also knew his son had no intentions to harm someone.

As all this has come down, I'm curious why more heat hasn't been put on the attorney/prosecutor who made that decision (that I have seen so far). Since it seems now that was the ultimate decision as to why GZ hasn't been charged yet.

I'm also having a hard time wrapping my mind around the LE arrest report of the GZ injuries and if that was possibly falsified. I really hope that's not the case and there really were injuries on him that just is not very visible in the video.
 
Wow, read thru posts. Lots of new things.
Looking at the video of GZ and I can now comprehend better why he scared Tray so much.
To a black teenager GZ resembled a white skinhead with his shaven head. More scary than a regular white dude.And I do believe now there was a struggle for the gun and both hit the ground.
GZ wanted to make a citizen's arrest and drew/pointed his gun while way too close to Tray.
Tray thought he was going to shoot him on the spot and successfully lurched for the gun. GZ did not expect that a sane person will try to go for a gun pointed at him.
But Tray was a fearless 17 year old teenager(the kind that makes good soldiers) who expected to die anyway but think they live forever. Tray had not done anything illegal so why would somebody pull a gun on him unless he wanted to kill/harm him .
Tray was shot at VERY close range, not just close per LE leaks. Which I translate into possibly body contact with the gun barrel. It was a lucky shot that incapacitated Tray instantly and GZ crawled away from under Tray quickly. Not enough time for a lot of blood, may be just some minimal.
Why no blood on GZ from Tray? Unless you hit an artery close to the surface like a shot in the neck , it takes a couple of seconds for the blood to start flowing. Ever got a decent flesh cut on your hand , no lots of blood instantly. All IMO.

I think anybody who is being honest with themselves, no matter what "side they are on", can see that the BBM part in the above post is racial profiling.

That's my point.
 
I am sure that in one of the first written media articles I read that GZ told the police that night his father was a supreme court judge (retired) but they very well may know who is since he now lives in the area.

GZ father is a retired Magistrate Judge , not sure if state or fed.
And this came Mr. Robert Zimmerman directly during his recent interview.
 
http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/en...cts-no-conviction-in-trayvon-martin-case.html

Jose Baez, who successfully defended Casey Anthony, has turned prognosticator on the Trayvon Martin case.

In an interview Wednesday with CNN’s Anderson Cooper, Baez said: “I just don’t see a conviction down the line here. I really don’t.”

Baez added: “I distinctly remember hearing on the 911 tape George Zimmerman saying, he’s now walking towards me and he looks like he has got something around his waistband. So there’s some conflicting stories here. … Remember, this is a decision George Zimmerman had to make in a split second. And to go back and to second-guess it, the way we’re doing, it’s a luxury that Mr. Zimmerman didn’t have.”
 
No way it's apples/oranges.

Racism is WRONG. Racial profiling is WRONG.
No matter who is on the giving or receiving end of it.

Until we can all agree that ALL racism is wrong, we are in a world of trouble.

HUH?

Trayvon is now being accused of being a racist???

GZ WAS following Trayvon, GZ had the gun.

That wasn't profiling on anyone elses part but his.

Maybe some wouldn't think that a man who they knew was following them, first in his car and then on foot, was scary but I'd be scared if I was Trayvon.

Difference being Trayvon had a real reason to be fearful, not an assumption.

If it was reversed and GZ was simply walking down the street, looking about, after coming home from the store, and Trayvon spotted him thinking this white guy must be up to no good, so he grabs a weapon and goes gunning after him, I'd say Trayvon acted based on racial stereotypes.

JMHO
 
As all this has come down, I'm curious why more heat hasn't been put on the attorney/prosecutor who made that decision (that I have seen so far). Since it seems now that was the ultimate decision as to why GZ hasn't been charged yet.

I'm also having a hard time wrapping my mind around the LE arrest report of the GZ injuries and if that was possibly falsified. I really hope that's not the case and there really were injuries on him that just is not very visible in the video.

I think I can fully understand the new investigators taking over deciding NOT to do anything until they have all their ducks in row and can verify and justify any decision that they make, considering the hot potato that they were handed, and I can understand them deciding NOT to take any of SPD's work for granted and starting from square one to do it.

What kinda stumped me was on MSN, last night one of the panelists stated that a report filed at 3 am on the morning after the shooting at 7pm the night before had Trayvon Martin's full name and address, and yet he was marked as a John Doe??? He said this leads to the inevitable conclusion that either they had his information and still marked him as a John Doe for whatever reason or that someone put the information in after the fact at some later date, which leads everything in the report to be in question because if it is not original how can you trust that other things were not changed, altered or added after the fact....

It's like trying to tie smoke in a knot....but I am convinced that there was not a huge physical struggle that left GZ beaten and battered, and with no major injuries I find it extremely difficult to believe he was in reasonable fear of his life, I also do NOT believe that an unarmed Kid is going to tell him. "You are going to die" or whatever he is supposed to have said, and I don't think even if he did that would put me in fear of my life from an unarmed kid who apparently couldn't hit me hard enough to blacken an eye or give me a fat lip, since GZ did not appear to have either IMO JMHO and stuff
 
HUH?

Trayvon is now being accused of being a racist???

GZ WAS following Trayvon, GZ had the gun.

That wasn't profiling on anyone elses part but his.

Maybe some wouldn't think that a man who they knew was following them, first in his car and then on foot, was scary but I'd be scared if I was Trayvon.

Difference being Trayvon had a real reason to be fearful, not an assumption.

If it was reversed and GZ was simply walking down the street, looking about, after coming home from the store, and Trayvon spotted him thinking this white guy must be up to no good, so he grabs a weapon and goes gunning after him, I'd say Trayvon acted based on racial stereotypes.

JMHO

No, I NEVER said that. I said the portion of the POST I quoted was racial profiling.

I've said it several times and even BBM the PORTION of the post I was talking about.

I never said TM was racist or even implied it.
 
Yes the ME would know, the funeral director's statement means nothing to me. The pooling of blood for the bruising is possible to have faded by the time he was sent to the funeral director. MOO and IME

Since Tray died quickly after the punch, if it occurred, they may not be a lot of ante mortem bruising since his blood circulation stopped.
 
This is very interesting.
http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2...mmerman-shortly-after-trayvon-martin-shooting.

- The detective did not believe GZ from the start?
- State attorney went to the scene that night?
- The state attorney made the decision overruling the investigator? WHY?
- INVESTIATOR DID WANT TO CHARGE GZ

This is all getting very strange. Since when does state attorney come ou at night?
I am starting to wonder if GZ's father did not pull in a lot of support for his son.

I am thinking GZ was a hot head - (But still legitimately wanting to watch this kid).
his father knew GZ is a hot head, but he also knew his son had no intentions to harm someone.

Whenever the Seminole Police is involved IMHO they DO NOT do a thorough job on any case.

The article with the video says video was shot 4 hours after the shooting. 4 hours?? Also, in the video, one of the officers is seen placing something in the trunk of the car, think it was the officer's jacket? Also, shat were they doing while outside the station by the car, they seems to be there a long time, and GZ even leans against a wall??
 
HUH?

Trayvon is now being accused of being a racist???

GZ WAS following Trayvon, GZ had the gun.

That wasn't profiling on anyone elses part but his.

Maybe some wouldn't think that a man who they knew was following them, first in his car and then on foot, was scary but I'd be scared if I was Trayvon.

Difference being Trayvon had a real reason to be fearful, not an assumption.

If it was reversed and GZ was simply walking down the street, looking about, after coming home from the store, and Trayvon spotted him thinking this white guy must be up to no good, so he grabs a weapon and goes gunning after him, I'd say Trayvon acted based on racial stereotypes.

JMHO


This is the original post I was referring to:

Wow, read thru posts. Lots of new things.
Looking at the video of GZ and I can now comprehend better why he scared Tray so much.
To a black teenager GZ resembled a white skinhead with his shaven head. More scary than a regular white dude.
And I do believe now there was a struggle for the gun and both hit the ground.
GZ wanted to make a citizen's arrest and drew/pointed his gun while way too close to Tray.
Tray thought he was going to shoot him on the spot and successfully lurched for the gun. GZ did not expect that a sane person will try to go for a gun pointed at him.
But Tray was a fearless 17 year old teenager(the kind that makes good soldiers) who expected to die anyway but think they live forever. Tray had not done anything illegal so why would somebody pull a gun on him unless he wanted to kill/harm him .
Tray was shot at VERY close range, not just close per LE leaks. Which I translate into possibly body contact with the gun barrel. It was a lucky shot that incapacitated Tray instantly and GZ crawled away from under Tray quickly. Not enough time for a lot of blood, may be just some minimal.
Why no blood on GZ from Tray? Unless you hit an artery close to the surface like a shot in the neck , it takes a couple of seconds for the blood to start flowing. Ever got a decent flesh cut on your hand , no lots of blood instantly. All IMO.

This was my response:

Saying TM may have been scared because GZ looked like a white skinhead is racial profiling.

Not all light skinned males with shaved heads are skinheads anymore than all black teens in hoodies are thugs.

Just wanted to point that out.



Nowhere have I ever said TM was a racist.
 
The article with the video says video was shot 4 hours after the shooting. 4 hours?? Also, in the video, one of the officers is seen placing something in the trunk of the car, think it was the officer's jacket? Also, shat were they doing while outside the station by the car, they seems to be there a long time, and GZ even leans against a wall??

4 hours is a long time. Perhaps that explains the lack of blood.
We know he was treated at the scene.

JMO
 
I think I can fully understand the new investigators taking over deciding NOT to do anything until they have all their ducks in row and can verify and justify any decision that they make, considering the hot potato that they were handed, and I can understand them deciding NOT to take any of SPD's work for granted and starting from square one to do it.

What kinda stumped me was on MSN, last night one of the panelists stated that a report filed at 3 am on the morning after the shooting at 7pm the night before had Trayvon Martin's full name and address, and yet he was marked as a John Doe??? He said this leads to the inevitable conclusion that either they had his information and still marked him as a John Doe for whatever reason or that someone put the information in after the fact at some later date, which leads everything in the report to be in question because if it is not original how can you trust that other things were not changed, altered or added after the fact....

It's like trying to tie smoke in a knot....but I am convinced that there was not a huge physical struggle that left GZ beaten and battered, and with no major injuries I find it extremely difficult to believe he was in reasonable fear of his life, I also do NOT believe that an unarmed Kid is going to tell him. "You are going to die" or whatever he is supposed to have said, and I don't think even if he did that would put me in fear of my life from an unarmed kid who apparently couldn't hit me hard enough to blacken an eye or give me a fat lip, since GZ did not appear to have either IMO JMHO and stuff

I agree that nothing we have heard or seen warrants the use of deadly force in this case. To me, even if there was a fight, it still doesn't warrant deadly force, because TM wasn't armed with anything lethal. I was thinking about it though, the slight out here for GZ is this (I don't believe this happened, just playing devils advocate). What if TM saw the gun and tried to reach for it. There would be no way to prove that of course, unless his (TM's) fingerprint is on it somehow.
 
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