FL - 17-yo Teen Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #5

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I may have misread your meaning. I thought you were saying the only reason the newspaper in this case lightened the photo was for innocent purposes. I may have misunderstood.

I was just answering a question from the previous thread about photographing dark skinned people by use of my personal experience. It was the only reason my students altered their photos. Perhaps that was unclear.

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I think all the reports and witness statements claim TM was lying face down and GZ was pressing on his back while straddling his body. So TM wasn't found on his back.

You are correct -- sorry, I was typing so fast I missed that! I will go above and correct it in my original post.
 
BEM: Please provide a link for his "stalking" this neighborhood since 2009. TIA

How long had he been a neighborhood watchman? Maybe that is what is being referenced. :dunno:

If it had been since 2009, then that would make sense.
 
I think all the reports and witness statements claim TM was lying face down and GZ was pressing on his back while straddling his body. So TM wasn't found on his back.

I can't think of how he landed in this position unless he was shot in the back while running away. Wonder why the autopsy hasn't been released? I find that suspicious. There is something that they don't want getting out there. IMO
 
How long had he been a neighborhood watchman? Maybe that is what is being referenced. :dunno:

If it had been since 2009, then that would make sense.

September 2011
 
We don't in fact know the HOA even has written rules for their watch program? And even if they do they could be very poorly written they may make no mention of forbidding the carrying of a firearm while on patrol... Just sayin' :confused:

However, if what the Chief of SP says is true this gives Mr. Zimmerman much more latitude as a private citizen. As he would not be bound by any such rules of the Neighborhood watch...

Nonetheless, I agree he should announced who he was and why he was seeking to speak with Mr. Martin. However we don't in fact know that he didn't do that just before the face to face confrontation...

There is just way too much mystery surrounding this incident and little to no facts available to know what really happened. I've said this over and over again, I think in the end we're going to be faced with the sad reality, that this was a tragedy cultivated by missteps and errors on both individuals part... Each thinking the other was out to get them and that lead to many mistakes. But that's what happens when we teach people to be overly suspicious and paranoid.
I wonder what the penalty is for breaking a neighborhood watch rule? Jail time or ?
 
It's not fair to call him a token friend imo. What are you basing that on? Again, it seems to be all about minimizing anything that paints GZ in any positive light.

I'm basing it on my opinion, which is why I concluded by saying JMO MOO IMO.

There's nothing to minimize about the "friend" because he was NOT a witness to what happened.
 
Does anyone really believe that Trayvon jumped out and attacked George Zimmerman as he was walking back to his truck (after checking for the name of a street sign in a neighborhood he had stalked since 2009)?

I don't think that happened. I think Trayvon defended himself after feeling threatened that this man was following him and who know what GZ was saying to Trayvon! I think GZ positioned himself near the entrance so he would be there when Trayvon returned. GZ had a plan, IMO! The man needs a psych eval.
 
I'm basing it on my opinion, which is why I concluded by saying JMO MOO IMO.

There's nothing to minimize about the "friend" because he was NOT a witness to what happened.

He is a character witness though, along with many others who claim GZ was not a racist.imo
 
That is not evidence that GZ started the altercation. All of those things could have happened and TM could still have started the fight. None of the facts we know of would preclude that possibility. The screams are not known to be from TM as of yet, and GZ sustained injuries. I would add that you're still getting facts wrong, as LE never ever told GZ not to follow TM.

I never said LE told GZ to not follow TM. I said the 911 operator told him not to and that Neighborhood Watch guidelines also indicate that.

Seeing as you are unable to provide evidence for your argument that TM started the altercation, I will ask this: if all of the facts of the case remained the same except that TM was a woman, would you still believe TM to be the aggressor? What if TM were a 17 year-old Caucasian kid?
 
I can't think of how he landed in this position unless he was shot in the back while running away. Wonder why the autopsy hasn't been released? I find that suspicious. There is something that they don't want getting out there. IMO

Very suspicious that the autopsy hasn't been released. Parents may have been told where Travon was shot, but were they told what the point of entry was, anterior or posterior?
 
Has the HOA president made any statement?
 
I think 46 complaint calls to LE over such a short period of time gives us an idea of what GZ's motivation was.

What motive? That he tried to prevent crimes rather than turning a blind eye to them as others do... Heck, I'd hate to calculate how many times I got on the phone with the police each evening.
 
Despite the frequency of his calls to the police, Zimmerman had only become a member of the neighborhood watch in September 2011. In fact, Twin Lakes’ neighborhood watch itself did not exist before then, according to Wendy Dorival, volunteer coordinator for the Sanford Police Department.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...abuse-911.html




How long had he been a neighborhood watchman? Maybe that is what is being referenced. :dunno:

If it had been since 2009, then that would make sense.
 
We don't in fact know the HOA even has written rules for their watch program? And even if they do they could be very poorly written they may make no mention of forbidding the carrying of a firearm while on patrol... Just sayin' :confused:

However, if what the Chief of SP says is true this gives Mr. Zimmerman much more latitude as a private citizen. As he would not be bound by any such rules of the Neighborhood watch...

Nonetheless, I agree he should announced who he was and why he was seeking to speak with Mr. Martin. However we don't in fact know that he didn't do that just before the face to face confrontation...

There is just way too much mystery surrounding this incident and little to no facts available to know what really happened. I've said this over and over again, I think in the end we're going to be faced with the sad reality, that this was a tragedy cultivated by missteps and errors on both individuals part... Each thinking the other was out to get them and that lead to many mistakes. But that's what happens when we teach people to be overly suspicious and paranoid.

They do have rules and guidelines which were provided to them by the police department. GZ is the one who called LE to set up the NWP in his neighborhood. As just a "private citizen" GZ might not know the rules, however he set it up and attended the classes prior to the NWP coming to the neighborhood so he was quite aware of what he was doing when his disregarded LE's request that he did not have to follow. GZ then mislead the dispatcher by saying okay. Had the dispatcher known GZ was intending on following TM he would have never let GZ hang up that phone because of the risk factor and safety issue. Had the dispatcher known GZ had a gun I'm am sure he would have given GZ a direct order to stand down and wait until LE arrived and the dispatcher would have made sure GZ stayed put by not hanging up with GZ. jmo
 
What motive? That he tried to prevent crimes rather than turning a blind eye to them as others do... Heck, I'd hate to calculate how many times I got on the phone with the police each evening.
Reporting kids playing in the street is a crime? IDK about that.

JMHO
 
I don't personally think that being a member of neighborhood watch conveys any extra authority, but I think that maybe that is not a universal belief. Many posters have at least implied, that Zimmerman did have , if not authority, then a level of legitimacy that Trayvon did not. That Trayvon should have acted humble and friendly to the stranger following him. We don't even know that he didn't. Some posters have said that Zimmerman's membership in the Neighborhood Watch conferred upon him some sort of duty even. Jmo of course.

Also, imagine these two scenarios:
1. A largish man regularly walks the neighborhood, looking at people's homes and yards, noting open windows and garage doors. He even follows people. He is felt to be performing a service, not casing homes, despite the recent rash of burglaries.
2. A young man walks the same neighorhood, dressed casually, on a public street. He is found suspicious.

The only difference I can see i can see is that person 1 is a member of the neighborhood watch. He has the authority, or at least the legitimacy conferred upon him by the community. He is seen as "patrolling" not casing the joint.

If being a member of N.W. confers no legitimacy then Trayvon Martin owed George Zimmerman the response and reaction of any child being followed by an armed stranger. Imho. If my children ever find themselves in that position I hope they attempt to keep themselves safe by any means necessary. Politeness be damned. MOO
 
I'm bringing a quote from Richard Hornsby"s post on the previous thread because it states exactly what I feel about this case.
"In this case, the most crucial piece of evidence that is missing is the circumstances under which Zimmerman became physically engaged with Trayvon. If Trayvon simply swung at him, deadly force would not be justified."
"But if, say, Trayvon jumped him and somehow got on top of him and started beating on him, Zimmerman's use of deadly force would be reasonable if he was on the ground - even under the old law, because once you are in a defenseless position you can no longer retreat."

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7719306&postcount=1195"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - FL - 17-yo Teen Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #4[/ame]
 
I never said LE told GZ to not follow TM. I said the 911 operator told him not to and that Neighborhood Watch guidelines also indicate that.

Seeing as you are unable to provide evidence for your argument that TM started the altercation, I will ask this: if all of the facts of the case remained the same except that TM was a woman, would you still believe TM to be the aggressor? What if TM were a 17 year-old Caucasian kid?

The 911 operator is LE and he did NOT tell GZ not to follow TM. You are also unable to provide proof that GZ started the physical altercation. I'd feel exactly the same way if TM was a woman or a white person. I do not think GZ would randomly decide to kill anyone if he wasn't in fear for his life. I'm happy to say race and gender don't factor into my thinking on this issue. Plenty of white kids and girls start fights too.
 
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