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Levi Page Show, September 8th, 2010

Part I, HaLeigh Cummings Mystery Heats Up!


LEVI PAGE: First tonight, we have blockbuster news in the case of missing Satsuma Florida girl, HaLeigh Cummings. She vanished from her own trailer in February of 2009, while under the care of a 17-year-old druggie, named Misty Croslin, who had previously been partying in on a drug, sex, and alcohol spree with a convicted felon. New information emerges that the child’s own father has apparently sat on information for over a year concerning his own child’s disappearance. Ron Cummings, who is currently jailed on drug trafficking charges, awaits his prison sentence, and we learn that he recently had a meeting with investigators, and according to Art Harris, with Artharris.com, this information is regarding the timeline of his daughter’s disappearance, information regarding his communication with Tommy Croslin the night HaLeigh vanished, and his relationship with all the shady characters that he allowed near his daughter the night she vanished. Furthermore, Cummings has also now admitted that he had a fight with the mysterious Tennessee cousin, Joe Overstreet, before HaLeigh vanished, and it was all over a gun. This man fights with Joe Overstreet over a gun, but not his own daughter, even after the Croslin clan pointed the finger at Joe Overstreet. And this case heats up even more, as we learn the police are gearing up to re-question Misty Croslin, the last one seen with little HaLeigh, the last person to see HaLeigh alive. Police armed with information supplied to them by Ron Cummings. It seems this group of drug dealers and shady characters are now turning on each other. Does this mean we are on the final stretch, are we going to find out what happened to this beautiful child once and far all? Here with more is Art Harris, he is an investigative journalist, his website is Artharris.com, where he has been reporting on all the explosive twists and turns in this case since Day 1; also with us is Family Law Attorney, Kim Picazio, she joins us out of Florida, she is the former Attorney for HaLeigh’s mother; Raymond Guidice joins us out of Atlanta, he is a criminal defense lawyer; and rounding out the panel is Pat Brown, she is a profiler and the author of “The Profiler”. I want to thank everybody for joining us tonight. I want to go to you first Art Harris. Art, tell us about this meeting that Ronald Cummings had with the investigators in this case. OK, we don’t have Art with us, just a moment, we are having a little difficulty getting Art on the line; but what happened is that we are learning that Ronald Cummings had a meeting with Police. Kim Picazio, you are a Family Law Attorney, you have been involved in this case, and you actually predicted on HLN that Ronald Cummings got two charges dropped, two of his drug charges, and that he gave information regarding HaLeigh to the cops, and that is why they dropped 2 of the charges, so are you surprised learning now that he actually gave police information concerning a timeline?

KIM PICAZIO: No I am not. I think that is standard operating procedure in Florida Criminal Law. What probably happened is that Ronald’s Attorney confronted Police, said that we may be able to give up some of the goods that you have been looking for, if you want to write us up a sweet deal, and a sweet deal is often referred to as a ‘Queen for the Day’ Agreement, so that RC gets to go, the Attorney will first give a sneak preview of what maybe his client has to say, Law Enforcement will then go back and make a meeting with the State Attorney’s office, and see if they need that information, if it will be helpful, and if it sounds truthful, and then what happens is Law Enforcement and the State Attorney will all meet with Ronald and his Attorney, in usually the State Attorney’s office, and he gets to be ‘Queen for the Day’ in a ‘Queen for a Day’ session. He gets to tell all that he knows that he has not told so far, about the disappearance of his own child, and after that Agreement, that is a sworn statement, it is usually recorded, it is called a proffer, the proffer agreement probably was already done prior to the recorded session, and then the terms of the proffer agreement usually state that anything that he admits during the course of the proffer will not be used against him, but they can be recorded and they will be used to ensure that he testifies the same way at the trial involving maybe some other players that will be brought in as defendants in the eventual trial or crime against HaLeigh Cummings. And, if he were to, for instance, state something that was contrary to whatever he said in the proffer agreement, they would then have him for perjury, which could be an additional 5 years or more, also they could prosecute him for the particular crimes he admitted to, it is a risky thing, usually there is not a written plea agreement done prior to the proffer, there could be a written plea agreement in place right now that we will see in his upcoming sentencing. I would be surprised if we don’t see a negotiated plea, which is one where all the Attorneys and State Attorneys have already agreed to in writing, and I would be surprised if we run into the same thing we seen before with the defendants coming in, changing their pleas to ‘no contest’, with no promises already in the bag, but again, Police had, the State Attorney has already seen what he had to say when they probably agreed to drop the two charges against him, which would carry mandatory minimums, and then later on, he would be testifying under oath at the trial probably for Misty, Tommy, and Joe Overstreet, and other peripheral players for the death of HaLeigh Cummings.

LEVI PAGE: I agree with you Kim because they do not need any further information on the drug trafficking because they got all that on the dash cam, on the undercover dash cam that basically caught them in the act of doing what they were doing in those drug transactions. Art Harris, are you with us now?

ART HARRIS: Yes sir. How are you doing Levi?

LEVI PAGE: I am great. How are you Art, bring us up-to-date, you broke the news about this meeting that Ronald Cummings had with Law Enforcement. You reported that it was about a timeline about the night HaLeigh vanished, you also reported that it was about communication he’s had with Tommy Croslin the night HaLeigh vanished, and Police had this information that Ron gave them, they are armed with that information and now they are gearing up to re-question Misty Croslin, bring us up-to-date on all these new developments Art.

ART HARRIS: You can find out more about that Levi on my website, artharris.com, but my sources are telling me that in fact, armed with information that Ronald has provided, Law Enforcement want to have another meeting with Misty, and I can tell you that they had a very productive meeting with Ronald and his lawyer August 3rd. He met with 4 detectives, including one from FDLE, remember Travis Smith who testified at the last hearing against who I believe was Tommy, and another lead agent, and the subject, my sources are telling me, was the timeline, and they were very interested in Ronald’s relationship with each of the major players here: Joe, Tommy, Misty, and other members of the family. They were just trying to iron out some things, they went over a lot of things that we have talked about before, but I also clarified the number of phone calls and texts. Previously Levi I had reported on artharris.com that there were more than 90 phone calls made by Ronald, and I am now told that number by his lawyer is closer to 24 or 25. That does not count text messages. So my sources are still saying more than 90 calls and texts, but he did not reach her that night.

LEVI PAGE: You know it sounds Art Harris he says he was at work; it sounds like he was doing more talking on the phone and texting than he was working. I want to go to Pat Brown and then Raymond Guidice. You know Pat Brown, does this surprise you that Ronald Cummings is now wanting a plea deal because this is a guy that I think would withhold information from the police if they could incriminate him, and this is a guy that will give up information only to save him own butt from going to jail for a long time, and prison, where there is probably going to be a lot of Black people, and we know how this guy has slung around the “N” word on tapes that have been released to the Media.

PAT BROWN: Well I think Levi that you have a good grasp of psychopathy, because here is what psychopaths always do. If they think you can’t get them, they will tell you whatever story they think is going to keep them out of trouble, they will sell their pack of lies, and then at a certain point, if they know that you are going to catch them on something in some way, shape or form, they will come up with the next best story, that they think you will believe that will get them in less trouble than the real story, so they keep inching towards the truth depending on what you got on them, so I have to believe, as I always have since the beginning, that this man knew exactly what happened to HaLeigh, he was involved with everything, and now they got him somewhere, someone must know something that he is now having to back down and give them some of the truth, whatever that might be, but of course some of the truth that may be closer because it all could be just be a pack of lies saying, “okay, I was involved to some extent but hey it is Joe Overstreet”. We have already decided that Joe is going to be the guy and so we will have Jo be the guy, but whether that’s true or not, we know Ronald has some involvement or he’s not going to do this.

ART HARRIS: Well Pat it’s funny, I have talked with Ron’s lawyer, Terry Shoemaker, who says that he’s in no way considered a suspect. He still thinks that as Law Enforcement does, that the key lies with Misty, and he doesn’t believe that she would harm the child, but he believes she knows what happened. So that is the Gospel we have been hearing, and of course his lawyer is not going to say anything other than that, but he expects, I can report, that the 15-year plea deal they had worked out, after the last meeting with LE; he hopes that will go down September 24th when he comes in for sentencing, he has not gotten the pre-sentencing report yet from the Probation folks. He plans to bring a number of family members and others to speak highly of Ronald at the Hearing, and expects and hopes that he will get the 15-years he was promised.

LEVI PAGE: Let me say something here for a minute. Let’s bring in Crystal Sheffield, and let’s see what she has to say about Ronald, let’s bring in Marie Griffiths, let’s also bring in his ex-girlfriend that he has a child by, which he is a deadbeat dad, Amber Brookes. So let’s bring all those people in and let’s have them testify and let’s see what they have to say about Ronald, it’s probably not going to be good. But I want to go to Ray Guidice; you are a Criminal Defense Attorney, what if you were representing Ronald, would you be advising him to be giving up information now?
RAY GUIDICE: You know I really wouldn’t and I will tell you why. I think I would take my chances on sentencing on the drug case first, see how well, or poorly, we did at that sentencing hearing, and then decide whether or not I had a good proffer, as was expertly described earlier by prior counsel as to what it is procedurally; he can always make that proffer after sentencing. And that sentencing whatever he gets, can always be downgraded or resentenced if he really has a nugget or a gem of information. So, I think I would hold, keep my powder dry at this point in time. Second problem is, I think, that if I was on the State Attorney’s side, I’d say, wait a second, and you know Levi I love you, but you have led the charge of calling the dad a liar and etc, etc, for the last year and a half, now who exactly is going to believe his new story on the eve of sentencing? That story comes with quite frankly a suit of dirty smelly clothing on it. So, if I was his counsel, I think I would hold tight, and unless and really “Queen for a Day” is a great description of the blue light special, unless I was really ‘get out of jail free pass’ getting, I don’t think I‘d testify right now. I think I’d sit tight because I really do think good lawyers in the State Attorney’s office, the prosecutor’s office, are going to say, “Hey wait a second, it is awful darn convenient that after all this time on the eve of sentencing he now finally is going to cough it up”. I don’t think a whole lot of people are believing that. I’m not.

KIM PICAZIO: Well I’ll tell you, that when I was on this case, and I had said this on the News many a times, that Ronald was refusing to go into Law Enforcement, he wouldn’t go in to cooperate with regard to his child, he would not go in, and neither would Misty, so he had lawyered up very early, even before we even knew publicly that there were criminal lawyers involved. There were, and we were getting lots of frustrating comments etc by Law Enforcement because if no one talks in Florida and in all of the States, you cannot just bring someone in by the hair, and force them to undergo interrogation, it is not how it works in the Unites States. So, unless they had something to charge him with, they could not bring him in and force him to talk; and he didn’t, which was very telling to everybody watching this case. Why isn’t this guy helping find his child? Why isn’t he helping? And I do know that also, as I was in my private investigations looking for this missing child, there were many times we would run into information that was concrete, dead on. We would have those people brought into LE or encourage them to go into LE. LE many of times would already have the information, or maybe we could just supplement it, and LE on each time would sometimes confront Ronald and he would say they are lying. That is all they would get, they’re lying. This is a guy who even withheld from Misty on the day after his child is missing, he is on his knees crying with her photo to the cameras, yet he turns around and smirks at Misty and is asking her if she has something to tell him with regard to her fantastic weekend. He was actually more concerned about putting the screws to his girlfriend that she had been sleeping around that weekend with a Gregory Page, than his missing child! That was what he was worried about.

LEVI PAGE: Wow, you know that is interesting, and Pat Brown, before we go to Art Harris, Pat Brown you wanted to say something. Jump in.

PAT BROWN: Yeah I mean its the thing that really strikes me here is, I do not understand like what is being said, there is really no reason for him to come forth and say anything, so clearly there has to be something that is pressuring him to do so. Because this information that he wanted to find his kid he would have given this up along time ago, and the kind of information that he was giving up, say like “oh yeah, I had an argument with so and so, with Jo, about a gun”; that’s not going to put him in prison. If he had an alibi that was really absolutely ironclad, that he was at work the whole darn time, there is no way he could be involved, in any way, shape, or form before, during, or after, in any of this, there is no reason he couldn’t have given up information before now to help find his child. I hope this is what the truth is, I hope that they have something they are pressuring him with so he feels it is necessary for him to speak up and say something in his own defense, and that is the only thing I can think of, he is trying to defend himself against something which has to be some involvement in this crime.

RAY GUIDICE: Well Pat let me just jump in here. What you pressure someone with is a warrant or an indictment. We are so far down the road, and they have neither against anybody. Again, if I am his lawyer, you know, I want the prosecution to show me what they got before I make a proffer. Let the prosecution put their cards on the table. Give me a reason why my guy should talk. Look,

LEVI PAGE: Because he is facing a lot of time behind bars.

RAY GUIDICE: So what. That is a slam dunk. I mean he is going to get that time.

PAT BROWN: What is he doesn’t? What if there is something though? That’s the whole point.

RAY GUIDICE: I am not disagreeing with you Pat, but let’s make him show it. If it’s so good, go get an indictment. Otherwise, show me what it is.

KIM PICAZIO: And we don’t know if there is a field indictment, we don’t know that.

RAY GUIDICE: Well that is true, we don’t know that.

KIM PICAZIO: We don’t know what LE have against him. They could have him to the pin with the various lies that we could even bust him with, with a bunch of Hillbilly PIs running around out there, let alone, LE and the FBI, so believe me, they’ve got the cell phone records, they’ve got forensic evidence, they have had that from Day 1, and this is what they need and now’s their time. They got Misty on the rope, they got Tommy and now. These people do not even know what the other hand has said to police. For instance, Tommy doesn’t even know what Misty said to Police in interrogation. Police let them all go and said “you’re all good”; and let them all go, they never really even had to talk because it wasn’t really an interrogation. They weren’t pointing the finger going “you’re a liar, you did call Tommy just after 10 because look, here is your cell phone record”. They didn’t tell them that, they just told them, “you’re good” waiting for the time that they have now. That is what is going on.

LEVI PAGE: Art, I have a question for you. A lot of people are wondering about Tommy and Ron’s relationship the night that HaLeigh vanished, especially the phone calls that Ronald made to him. What more can you tell us about that. Do you know exactly where Tommy was when Ron called him?



ART HARRIS: Are you asking me now Levi? I can tell you his lawyer, Terry Shoemaker, actually told me that part of the conversation with police. He is saying that he never called Tommy specifically on his cell phone, he called the house, and he was just asking had they seen Misty. But his story he’s saying is that he was not all that upset and he did not ask Tommy to go check on her. Now that to me is very interesting, because if true, we know Tommy has told several stories about when and why he went over there, and the first one was that Ronald called him and told him to go. Right? Remember that? So in fact if Ronald didn’t really push him to go do that, he had to come up with some sort of cover story for why he was over there. Of course that later changed when he said Jo came and picked him up. And my sources are telling me that the phone records show that Jo was using Chelsea’s phone and did make a call, and as far as I can put it together, Lindsy was asleep by then, and Joe came and picked up Tommy and off they went for whatever nefarious deals they did. Ronald is at work, he didn’t punch in, but sources are telling me that his work uses a thumbprint system for identification. So nobody could punch in and out for him. Now sure, maybe he could sneak out and

KIM PICAZIO: He did before, he snuck out before.

ART HARRIS: For sure, but I am saying that there was no card and nobody could impersonate his thumb print without him. They couldn’t use a card.

KIM PICAZIO: Art do you know if PDM Bridge used the thumb print system before Feb 9/09??

ART HARRIS: Yes that is what I was told. That was news to me and this news will be on artharris.com but I am giving this news to Levi first.

LEVI PAGE: Yes Art you are all over this case, you got all the information, Everyone our panel is Art Harris, he is with artharris.com, Kim Picazio, she’s a Family Law Attorney, very high profile in Florida, Raymond Guidice, he is a Criminal Defense Attorney in Atlanta, and Pat Brown, the author of “The Profiler”, she is a Criminal Profiler. I want to go to Art, and then I want to go get some thoughts with Pat and Ray. Art, tell us more about Joe Overstreet. Apparently Ronald had previously denied a fight with Jo over a gun and now he is owning up to the fight with Joe over a gun before HaLeigh vanished, correct?

ART HARRIS: Yeah, I am told that Ronald is now admitting there was a fight. There was an initial argument over a gun. I have talked to everybody pretty much in Misty’s family, and they describe a scene where Ronald suspected Joe of taking this Beretta, from the trailer, he got really furious, he had to be held apart by Hank Croslin at their house, and he really demeaned little cousin Joe, who is a little guy but does get his feelings hurt very easily, and then doesn’t forget. So Joe, by all accounts, who denied that he took the gun, then learns later that they found this gun in a little culvert. The family took me in their front yard, they showed me this pipe that ran underneath the old house where they lived. It runs on the driveway and that’s where Joe had supposedly put the gun, and the funny thing is who found the gun, it was Chelsea and Misty. It was kind of muddy and they cleaned it up. Ronald got it back and for some reason he really had no real hard feelings against Jo at that point, and everybody went on their merry way. And then you flash forward about a week, when the story is that now Tommy is telling and Misty is saying that Joe came calling looking for the machine gun, and got mad it wasn’t there and then took HaLeigh. Now, this is a strange theory, but what if something happened to HaLeigh. Misty had to put the word out that she, and this is not corroborated by LE, this is just artharrisfantasy.com; what if she says, “Hey guys, come help me get rid of this body or cover-up for me”. Ronald even says that there is a machine gun there that you all loved, and you can have the machine gun, so they show up, and let’s say they do the dirty work, and wholly molly Ronald has taken the machine gun and she can’t pay off Tommy and Joe, so they make that story up. I don’t know if that makes any sense at all, but

KIM PICAZIO: Well it does to me Art because I think that your fairy tale on artharris.com is going to be more like reality if this case ever goes to trial. We may see the fact that Misty did reach out, call a brother, say “I’m in trouble”, and that brother may have called someone else, another brother, and instead of reaching the brother who may have helped him, Tommy may have spoken and gotten a hold of Joe instead, who would only have ill motives, he was a very violent guy, been in and out of juvie my understanding from the family, violent history, and I think that maybe everybody could have been too high to think straight, or they just have no respect for humanity, and they go down there to cover things up. I think that this is what we are going to see and in addition in regard to that gun, if you ask Misty or Chelsea, you will find out that Ronald called Misty after searching around in that yard, Ronald calls Misty on her cell phone and says, “Search right over there” and Ronald was down at the trailer down the street, and lo and behold, there pops up that gun that they had been looking for.

ART HARRIS: Now this is strange Kim but I also heard the story that I reported early on artharris.com, that Misty may have been in on the theft, that if true, Misty and Tommy and Joe were going to split the proceeds from whatever they stole and could sell because Ronald really wasn’t giving Misty any money.

KIM PICAZIO: That’s correct and then he went after Joe with a bully club, and he was held apart by Hank Senior, and then Joe at some point had even pulled a knife on Hank Senior, and got kicked out of that area, and he left to go stay with Timmy and Chelsea the rest of his stay. And he was a bit scared of Ronald, that is true, and even his girlfriend was called to come pick him up. But then when she arrived he said “No, I’ve decided to stay”, and she went on back to her family who she was staying with. So I think that all of these things are reality and the only question is, is how much Ronald Cummings knew during that night. You will only be able to know if you have the cell phone record there, but all of these things are coming together, the bits and pieces are coming together, and I think that since I’ve given a lot of opinions, but that as you come upon facts, you may change your opinion. But I think that there is more to this story with people that Misty was reaching out to for help on that night.

LEVI PAGE: It is someone within this inner circle. Someone in that drug dealing, druggie circle, and I want to go to Pat Brown, and then Ray Guidice. Pat, what do you make of all this that you have been hearing tonight? I mean this is just a bunch of criminals that are involved in ridiculous behavior and it is a shame that this child was put in that sort of despicable environment.


PAT BROWN: Well here is my problem with the story that is being created here, I do perhaps believe bits and pieces of that story might be true, but I want to know where Ronald’s hand is in all of this. Because if it’s true that all these people are stabbing Ronald in the back; Jo is stealing his stuff and his girlfriend is sleeping with other people, and Tommy is helping his girlfriend do stuff, and Jo is doing stuff, and all of these people are stabbing him in the back, and there is nothing that went on that night particularly that could put Ronald in jail based on a gun perhaps, or whatever, I mean you know, what is he going to go to jail for, on that, I don’t know, maybe somebody could tell me. But I don’t see where Ronald’s nonparticipation in what happened that night would put him in prison, so I don’t understand why would Ronald then having no involvement at all, and having everybody stab him in the back, he wouldn’t turn on Misty, he wouldn’t turn on Tommy, he wouldn’t turn on Jo He would be so angry that these people have done all this crap, stealing his stuff, stealing his kid, killing his kid off, all of this, and yet he is not going to say anything, he is going to marry the woman who is involved with that and hang out with all these people.

KIM PICAZIO: Pat, what I would also like you to consider is when I was in Satsuma about a month after the crime had occurred, we had a lot of people in town that would tell us a lot of different things and we had people that were pretending to be friends with Ron but that actually wanted to come and snitch to us. And we knew from a bunch of his real good buddies that he would go down mud bogging with etc., that on many occasions the family and his buddies would all say, “Let’s go down to Tennessee and go and confront Joe ourselves. We’ll get a big van of people.” They even had cars lined up to get down to Tennessee one time; every single time of the four times that I knew about with concrete plans, groups of people, who was going to bring the steak and shrimp etc., every single time, Ronald was the one that backed out and would not go to Tennessee to confront Jo, and if Misty was so afraid of Jo, then why would that little girl go up to Tennessee and stay in the same town with her granny, right near Jo.

PAT BROWN: Exactly, Ron’s hand is in all of this, he’s shown absolutely nothing that makes any sense that he’s just an innocent guy, because he would have turned on these people, he is not a nice guy, he is a psychopath, he would have turned on them, he would have gone up and got Jo, and he didn’t every time when given the opportunity. And he could have talked to the Police about everything that had happened that night and he wouldn’t go in. So obviously, he is more involved in this crime than the fact that, if he is willing to talk about in the past that you know, that Jo stole his gun and stuff like that, and he actually knew where it was, but you know, if he is actually willing to say that stuff, he is not that worried about the repercussions of him having a gun, I don’t even know if it was even legal for him to have that particular gun in the house, if he wasn’t a felon, he could have a gun as far as I know down there, so what the heck would he be involved with that would prevent him from talking to the police and getting these killers put behind bars, and what would prevent him from going after them? There is just absolutely no reason except again that he is much, much deeper into this, and much more involved in what happened to HaLeigh that night, and he knows exactly what happened to HaLeigh, he had some involvement in what happened to HaLeigh, and he knows that he would go down because of what happened to HaLeigh.



KIM PICAZIO: I think that any parent with children would have slept in that police station if they had to, in case they might have a question, last minute, at midnight, if they had to, in order to aid in finding their little child. I can not even imagine.

PAT BROWN: Especially when you have that alibi that he supposedly has, but I think he could have snuck out, I don’t buy the alibi, but anyway, even a criminal will say, “hey look man, you know I am alibied up the kazoo, and you know I am not a perfect guy, you know that I have gotten myself in some trouble before, but I am willing to talk to you because this is my kid “that they done stole”.

LEVI PAGE: Good point. Everybody, Art I want to get to you in a minute, but I want to bring in Ray Guidice, Ray, I mean we’re listening to all of the stories that Ron’s told, all the stories that Misty and Tommy have told, and the one person who is staying pretty quiet and not giving stories is Joe Overstreet. This guy also has an Attorney, he has lawyered up, he is not talking, and as a Defense Attorney, you would probably be glad that your guy is not talking when all the fingers are pointing at him.

RAY GUIDICE: His Attorney has done a great job in counseling Mr. Overstreet to not make all the off -the-cuff recorded inconsistent statements that many of these other parties that we have all been talking about have. I do not see any possibility that Overstreet is going to cough up a confession, unless of course he is going to get a “Queen for a day deal”, but the conversation that I have just been sitting back and listening to for the last 15 or 20 minutes, actually sounds like what would go on in a Jury Room if this kind of mess would ever go to a trial. And essentially what I, and I don’t mean to be insulting to anybody, but because there are so many overlapping and inconsistent lies and statements and retracting of statements, I actually think that this group of Rednecks down there have actually kind of done a Stockholm Syndrome on everybody that we’re all kind of kidnapped by them, and have become enamored with, and all of a sudden their credibility, or there lack thereof. I mean these people are really the bottom of the barrel, they can’t be trusted, any kind of criminal defense lawyer can take any of the individuals, put up a PowerPoint presentation of their inconsistent prior statements on TV News, on the Nancy Grace Show, etc. etc. in print, and absolutely melt these people; so at the end of the 5-week messy trial, 12 human beings are going to go back and look at each other, and there is going to be one or two outcomes: either they are going to say, which we do here, “let’s find them all guilty and let God sort it out”, or they are going to withhold their obligation under the Constitution and say, “I don’t think the State has proved its case beyond a reasonable doubt” and I will tell you that the strong opinions held by all the folks on this show, all of which I respect, and are intelligent and knowledgeable, just goes to show, that a jury of 12, which magnifies us times the power of 5 or 6 here, is going to have equally the problem in finding someone guilty unless there is some smoking gun, or a sealed indictment based on evidence that was alluded to earlier, but as we sit here tonight, I think it is just as plausible that 90, 120 days from now, we are all having about the same conversation and that is why we do not have a homicide charge right now. That’s right you have to be ready to say, “Ladies and Gentlemen of the Jury, this is what happened that night”. They can’t say that yet.

PAT BROWN: It is a bunch of junk, it’s a bunch of junk right now, that’s all it is. You can’t actually tell who did what, if anybody did anything. So you have a bunch of junk and nothing more.

ART HARRIS: I am just trying to throw in facts for all the experts to mull over, and Kim’s got some great information here, and she did a pretty amazing job staying alive down there, and there are probably some stories too x-rated for this place. She went into the hood and interviewed drug dealers herself, so that was not very smart, but she timed her leaving right, but I am talking about the time that Ron called Donna Brock, actually Donna Brock was with Misty in New York, they went up to the CBS Show, Early Show, they were at the hotel. Misty was believing Donna was her buddy, and she had gotten close presumably for Law Enforcement, but then talk about a Stockholm Syndrome, I think she became a captive of Misty’s own manipulation and her need to be needed by this little girl. In any case, there they are at the hotel and suddenly it’s Ronald on the phone warning her that Donna Brock is a spy. Misty did not know that. Why would Ronald if he wanted the truth to come out. Levi Page: He didn’t want it to come out because he was protecting Misty. Art Harris: Levi, let me tell you the story. So he gets up there. Donna suddenly is accused by Misty of lying to her and all of this is about to come apart because Ronald blew the whistle. Now why would he do it when he knew Misty was slipping away from him, bonding with somebody else, starting to trust Donna Brock according to hours of conversations I had with Donna before she was arrested, and here suddenly, that cover is blown, Misty is back under Ronald’s thumb. Levi Page: But she still hung out with Donna a lot. Do you think that Donna may have information about what happened to HaLeigh? Art Harris: I talked about it a lot and I was about to report it on artharris.com, I believe Misty did tell her something, Donna told me several times that Misty knew more than she was revealing. Now this is before she changed that story and talked about Jo and the machine gun that night, so if that is what she was covering up at the time Donna was talking to her, she did know more, so Donna’s instincts were right. One time Donna got her to start writing her story down, and then Misty got cold feet, and Donna came back to the apartment thinking that she was going to have a first draft of what was not a confession, but at least had something in it, Misty decided to rip it up and throw the papers away. So, in addition to that, Ronald was not exactly acting like the sad, missing dad who was doing everything he could to find his daughter as Kim has said. A lot of my Law Enforcement sources were just shaking their heads that this guy just could care less. Remember he went off and got tattooed, took Misty to the State’s fair, they had a fine time, he was going to places like Chili’s, we interviewed some folks to confirm it, and he would go in and he got the cheque for a couple hundred of bucks, a bunch of his friends were there eating and drinking, and basically he said, “Excuse me, this must be a mistake, is this a cheque for me, do you know who I am?” He did it all over town Art, you know that. Absolutely, and so this was not exactly the behavior that a profiler would be able to use to clear someone, even though people do act differently in mourning you know, and in tragedy, and in a crisis; we can’t really judge someone for either no tears or too many tears, or acting a certain way, because we don’t know how we would act if something happened to somebody close to us, but Ronald consistently did not act like someone law enforcement



LEVI PAGE: But here’s what I say when people say there’s no playbook how to act, but there’s a guy that acts a different way when the camera is off of him, when the cameras are on him, he is down on the floor crying saying he is going to kill people, but when the cameras are not on him, what is he doing? He’s eating out, getting tattoos; he is kissing and making out.

KIM PICAZIO: And Levi at one point, he was crying on Nancy Grace, and then he had all the guys leave the HaLeighBug Centre that were going to go pick him up to go mud bogging, and so he got off the Nancy Grace Show with his mother crying about his missing child, and within seconds after that show ended, he is going right by us giving all of us the finger, hooting and hollering going mud bogging. This guy it was weird, he almost was empowered, it was this cocky, I’ve got a secret, I’ve got control of these people, he was empowered after this, it was really quite sick, and we had very heavy surveillance on him, his friends, it was really very disturbing to everyone.

LEVI PAGE: Okay everyone, we are going to have to end the HaLeigh discussion, but before we do I want to give Ray Guidice the last word on the HaLeigh Cummings case. Ray, what do you think about all that you’ve been hearing?

RAY GUIDICE: Well, I mean, it’s a heck of a story, and it would make a heck of a movie, but right now it isn’t an indictment. All of these folks involved have done great work and I’m sure the law enforcement have done everything they could possibly do, but I’ll tell you what, I have seen murder cases indicted a heck of a lot faster than this when you consider all the chit chat and all the resources that have gone into it, and I could be wrong, tomorrow morning there could be a sealed indictment handed out and somebody is going down, but I’ll tell you what, unless there is something better than what we are all talking about. I mean all these stories are interesting and fascinating and they certainly showed a moral depravity of these individuals, but the last I looked, that didn’t convict anyone of murder beyond a reason doubt.

LEVI PAGE: There is Scott Peterson. Scott Peterson. While his wife was missing at the Vigil, he was on the phone with a woman that he was having an affair with saying that he was in France at a Rock Concert when his wife and unborn child were out there floating in the river after he killed them and dumped them in the icy cold water. Guess what? He got the death penalty after the Jury heard all that information about him. There was no DNA, no forensic evidence.

RAY GUIDICE: Well they found the body Levi, and they saw him in a row boat where the body was found. I mean, you know, you are making some enormous leaps of faith and you know right now if I was the defense lawyer in this I would say pick 12 tomorrow Mr. Prosecutor, are you ready? And I would venture they would say, they are not ready.

KIM PICAZIO: Lying about what time you get to work is not going to prove that you murdered a child.

ART HARRIS: And not that you have to be fair to someone who is facing 15 years in prison, however, his Attorney, Mr. Shoemaker tells me that he believes he is innocent and of course he maintains his innocence, and believes Misty holds the key.

LEVI PAGE: Yeah well, she does hold the key but that’s not what they were saying in the beginning, they are saying it that now when they are trying to cover their own butts. Everybody I am Levi Page and we are going to switch gears.
 
LEVI PAGE: Good evening, I am your host Levi Page. Breaking news in the case of missing Satsuma Florida girl, HaLeigh Cummings. The 6-year-old beauty vanished from her home while under the care of a teenager who just got off a drug, sex, and alcohol spree. Misty Croslin failed multiple polygraphs and police publicly say she holds the key to what happened to this missing child. Misty Croslin, along with the father of HaLeigh, Ronald Cummings, is busted for drug trafficking. An undercover police dash cam captured it all on tape. Cummings is caught callously talking about how drug dealers didn’t murder his daughter. Cummings snags a deal and gives Police new information about his missing daughter and gets a plea deal but the plea deal ain’t so sweet. Today in Court, Cummings own mother takes the stand and cries for the Judge and says that Ron is “A good man and that his two children, HaLeigh and Junior, need him and begged the Judge for leniency. If his children “needed him”, why was he selling drugs instead of searching for his daughter and tending to his young son Junior? And 2 children, doesn’t Ron’s mother realize Ron has a third child, a disabled child that he has nothing to do with? Can you say, “Deadbeat dad?” Tonight the crying jag of Teresa Neves didn’t work on Judge Terry LaRue as Cummings is slapped with a 15-year sentence and a whopping fine. Plus tonight, exclusive, as we go to air, I have just learned that Misty Croslin today went under a long, grueling interrogation by LE and you won’t believe what cops are telling her. Is Misty Croslin on the verge of cracking and saying what happened to this missing child? With us tonight is Holly Hughes, she is a former prosecutor and current defense attorney. She is based out of Atlanta, and very well known in that jurisdiction. She has prosecuted and defended violent crimes. She is very familiar with these cases. Holly, thank you for joining us tonight.

HOLLY HUGHES: Absolutely, it is a pleasure to be with you Levi.

LEVI PAGE: Holly, what do you think about the Judge hearing the cries, the begs of Ronald’s own mother for leniency? The Judge isn’t buying it and slaps him with 15-years in prison the minimum mandatory.

HOLLY HUGHES: Absolutely, these Judges’ have seen it all and heard it all Levi and the defendant’s mom getting up there and saying he is a good boy means nothing. Of course she is going to say that, it is her own kid. So the fact that she is up there and weeping and sobbing, let me tell you something, this is nothing new for this Judge. He is going with the deal that was worked out by the State, he is trusting his prosecutors that they have done the right thing here in that they have gotten some good information from this guy, but I mean clearly, this woman is lying through her teeth that he is such a good daddy. As you pointed out in your opening, that while his daughter is missing, he is out there slinging dope: now he’s really dedicated to searching for her.

LEVI PAGE: Yeah and everybody if you go to artharris.com, Art Harris published a new picture of Misty and Ronald Cummings and this is a month after his child vanishes: Ronald Cummings marries the main suspect in the case, marries her and takes off to New York for a honeymoon and they are literally Holly licking each other, touching tongues, and smiling for the camera. This doesn’t look like a father whose child just vanished and is missing and can possibly be in harm’s way.

HOLLY HUGHES: Absolutely, this picture is so inappropriate on so many levels Levi, but it gives you insight into the mindset of these people. Now you know when your child goes missing, that is a horrible, horrible event in your life, and no, you’re not going to cry 24/7: it’s just not possible. You know there will be times when you are going to smile and when the camera may catch you having a little laugh, that is all perfectly normal, but what we see in this photograph is just the inappropriate public behavior of these two and it goes to that mindset of we don’t have to conform to what everybody else does, we don’t have to follow the rules, we don’t have to behave in public, and it just goes to show you what they think of society’s norms and the way people should behave and the laws, I mean they don’t care, they know they are under scrutiny, they have got to know that people are watching yet they are out taking these kinds of photographs in public and then allowing them to be published: letting family members have them and go ahead and give them to investigative journalists. So it is a look into their mindset and it is just disgusting, and I got to tell you those are not the kind of pictures I want to see.

LEVI PAGE: And Holly what is interesting is that Ronald Cummings according to the Florida Times Union very early on in this case, I have a quote right here from Law Enforcement, it says “Cummings has cut off interviews with investigators, besides “No I didn’t have nothing to do with my child being missing, what do you say?” he asked. Major Gary Bowling, Director of Law Enforcement for the Department, said detectives would like to interview Cummings but have been resisted. That is from the Florida Times Union. Holly, we have seen Misty Croslin talk, Misty Croslin pointing the finger at her Tennessee cousin, Joe Overstreet, who she said molested her, has threatened her, she says she is afraid of him, she says he is crazy, he is a criminal. She says that he took HaLeigh, killed her, dumped HaLeigh in the St. John’s River all because of a fight over a machine gun that he had with HaLeigh’s father, Ronald Cummings. Misty’s talked, Tommy Croslin has talked. Tommy Croslin telling police that he seen Joe Overstreet strangle HaLeigh, that he seen Joe Overstreet take HaLeigh, put her in the van, drive HaLeigh to the St. John’s River, tie her down with a cement block and yellow rope and dump her in the river. That is Tommy Croslin talking, but the one person we haven’t gotten a story out of is Ronald Cummings, and I think Police gave him a deal put him under a proffer agreement because we know there was a proffer session with Ronald Cummings and they wanted him to talk: they wanted him to talk because they have yet to hear from him and this was a way to get information about the case they haven’t been able to get from him.

HOLLY HUGHES: Well absolutely I mean Levi that is a mouthful so let’s just go back to the beginning and address one issue at a time. First of all, if your child is missing and you have nothing to do with it, you are absolutely cooperating with the Police. You are down at the Police Station every single day, working the last nerve of the detective. You are in his face, you go “what are you doing today, what is happening with this case, where is my daughter? Why aren’t you out working? Why are you sitting in this station house? What can I do to help?” You are calling local media, you’re saying “Hey keep my daughter’s picture out there. Put her on the 6 o’clock news, put her on the 8 o’clock news, you are working like a madman to get that child back. You are not refusing to help. I mean you and I both know Marc Klaas.

LEVI PAGE: I am going out to New York for a honeymoon.

HOLLY HUGHES: Exactly. That is exactly right. You and I know Marc Klass, I respect Marc so much and he will tell you as the father of a murdered child, you know the first thing you do is whatever the Police need, whatever they want. Yes I will sit through an interrogation, yes put me on a polygraph, whatever you need to do to eliminate me so that you can get onto the real kidnapper and killer. So first off, that just stinks to high heaven, so that gives me reason he knows a lot more than he is telling. Now, moving forward, Misty claims that this Joe Overstreet molested her, when did this happen? Did you call the Police, did you report it? Have you seen this kid? He is a pep squeak, Misty could take him, are you kidding me? Get real! I mean you could blow him away in a windstorm: this is not some bulking body builder okay? So if that’s true, if there was molestation, why has it never been told because if it had been told, even if she claimed she is so scared of him she wouldn’t report it to the Police, which is a load of crap, because he lives in a completely different state, so he molests you then left the State? Call the Police and have them go and arrest his behind.

LEVI PAGE: You know Tommy Croslin’s attorney, James Werter, says they were all afraid of Joe Overstreet. The day after HaLeigh went missing: Joe Overstreet was back in Tennessee. You know someone in Satsuma Florida which there is a long distance between Satsuma Florida and Tennessee, they are not going to be afraid of someone when they go back home to a completely different state more than 10 hours away.

HOLLY HUGHES: Exactly, that’s exactly right. And if you are that scared, call the cops and get him arrested and take them immediately to where the evidence is before it degrades, before it gets washed away, before animals get to it, take them immediately and say, “Oh my gosh, you know you have to go and arrest this guy, we are terrified of him, but we can lead you exactly to the crime scene, we can tell you exactly what happened. What a load of crapola. They are saying “oh drug dealers took the baby”, they are saying “cousin Joe did it”. I don’t believe a word any one of those lying people say. His own grandmother, Flora Hollers, is saying, “yeah I think Ron has something to do with it”.

LEVI PAGE: Yeah.

HOLLY HUGHES: That is her gut feeling I will give you that much but I think he knows a lot more than he is saying but here is the thing with the plea deal: Let’s remember the reason that they point him out on this, the allocution that he gave and the proffer that he gave, as far as we know, is with respect to Misty and Tommy’s drug dealing. He said he would testify against her in a drug dealing trial, he has not said to anyone’s knowledge that he will testify against her in a murder trial.

LEVI PAGE: Art Harris is reporting on his website and he reported this a couple of weeks ago on this Show, that Ronald Cummings was giving police new information about the timeline in the HaLeigh Cummings case and new information about Misty, Tommy, and Joe Overstreet, and his relationship with these characters which begs the question “If you are totally innocent, why are you coming out with new information a year and a half after your child is missing? Don’t you give that up right then and there?”

HOLLY HUGHES: Absolutely. And that is why I am very suspicious that he has given them anything. He might say to them, “This is all I know”, but I wouldn’t believe him as far as I could throw him because….

LEVI PAGE: Doesn’t it help the investigator to get him to talk since he has previously clammed up?

HOLLY HUGHES: Well it is absolutely imperative that they hear what he has to say, I’m just not sure it is going to be helpful. Yeah he can go in there and say to them, “yeah I called 90 times”, they already know that okay? They have his cell phone records. They have investigated the hell out of this case, they have worked so hard and done such a great job in doing everything they can and I mean they put these people under surveillance. How do you think they got them on video dealing drugs? They were watching these people of interest to them so the police have absolutely worked it but I got to tell you, I can’t see Ronald, if he is involved in this, really giving up too much because he is afraid he is going to implicate himself.

LEVI PAGE: Maybe though Holly they have something that was pressuring him to talk.

HOLLY HUGHES: Well you know that would be great but here is the thing, I cannot see any prosecutor worth his salt, giving a deal to someone who he thinks might be part and party to a crime.

LEVI PAGE: Holly, what does that tell you though whenever Ronald Cummings swears up and down that he didn’t have anything to do with his missing child but very early in the case, Ronald Cummings hired a Criminal Defense team very early, and a lot of people will say, his supporters will say it’s because Crystal Sheffield, the mother of HaLeigh got an attorney to get HaLeigh taken away from him but he got an attorney even before that happened and it was not a family law attorney, it was criminal defense attorneys that specialized in criminal defense.

HOLLY HUGHES: Well to me there are a lot of people who would say well you know you want to make sure your rights are protected. Here’s the thing, if you got a missing child that you truly love, and you think some stranger has come in and abducted her, you are not thinking about yourself. Any good parent is not thinking about himself, he is concerned about the whereabouts of his child, and what that child may be going through if she has been taken by a kidnapper, so for you to be worried about protecting your own interests, which to me, if you have nothing to hide, go ahead and cooperate, you don’t need……

LEVI PAGE: You know what it reminds me of. Remember in the Jon Benet Ramsey case, the Ramsey’s clammed up very early on and hired criminal defense attorneys. They got on a plane immediately and went to Atlanta within 48 hours of Jon Benet Ramsey dying and they also hired media people, public relations specialists to deal with the media instead of talking to police and it wasn’t until months after their daughter was murdered that they finally sat down to talk to Police and in this case what’s similar in the Jon Benet Ramsey case and the HaLeigh Cummings case is that Misty and Ron were so tight: that they were almost inseparable. They got married, Ron protected Misty from law enforcement, Ron did not want law enforcement barking up Misty’s tree despite Ron knew her story made no sense, there were tons of inconsistencies in her story and that she had lied, and instead of pointing the finger at Misty, Ronald was always wanting the finger to be pointed at Crystal Sheffield, HaLeigh’s own mother and her side of the family and telling the Police they should look at them. And according to my sources, Ronald would even take his child Junior to Police and have him snitch on what Crystal was doing: Crystal did this and Crystal did that while all the while his daughter was missing. It seems like Ronald was more interested in trashing the mother of HaLeigh then actually getting HaLeigh back and finding out exactly who did it which is that little gal pal of his who cheated on him but he still marries her and supports her and says she is just great!

HOLLY HUGHES: Right absolutely, well here is the thing. If you think he tells on himself because let’s all remember when he makes the initial 911 call with Misty that morning he says to the police, you all need to get here quick because if I find out who’s got my daughter before you get here, I’m going to f’in kill them. Okay, so he is saying whoever’s got my kid, whoever hurt my kid, whoever did something to my kid, I’m going to kill ‘em, but then he turns around and marries her a month later? So we know that that is all posturing, we know that that’s all lies because what he said was basically……..

LEVI PAGE: And what is so disturbing is that a lot of people will see the tears in Ron’s face and they’ll say oh he could never do that. You know I’ve listened to a video tape of Ronald Cummings talking to a bounty hunter that was previously involved in this case, a bounty hunter named Cobra, and Cobra got this on tape and Ronald Cummings callously, callously Holly talked about how if the body of HaLeigh, his own daughter was thrown in the St. John’s River, he callously talked about how alligators would eat the body and basically clean everything up but the bones.

HOLLY HUGHES: First of all, this guy has so many issues: I don’t know that that bothered me so much because that is just typical of his personality and his behavior. He is just not going to behave like a normal member of society.

LEVI PAGE: He was talking about daddy’s little boy Junior and he said, “I’ll take him with me: I’ll take him to my grave.” That is very disturbing and it is also equally disturbing the lifestyle these children were subjected to because we are hearing about all sorts of illegal guns, illegal drugs being inside that home. We are hearing about the people that Ronald and Misty associated with being inside the home with HaLeigh and Junior and Ronald at one point, and this was witnessed by Tim Miller with Texas Equasearch, pulled out a gun that he had unsecured in his room, the same room that his child who was I think 4-years-old Junior was sleeping in, he took out the gun, put the barrel of the gun inside his mouth Holly and threatened to kill himself and “Take others out with me.” This is a disturbed individual.

HOLLY HUGHES: Absolutely, but it just goes to show you again what his mindset is, and his mindset is it’s all about me: just like the honeymoon photos. Just like marrying the last person to see his daughter before she went missing, it is all about him, it‘s about what he wants to do, just like breaking the law and trafficking drugs, I don’t care what the law says, I don’t care what Society says, I want to make some money so I am going to go and deal drugs. Let me back up…….

LEVI PAGE: Ron had a job at PDM Bridge and that was making an honest living but he never showed back up there after his daughter vanished, instead he was raking in donations by people in the community and you know what he was doing with those donations? He was getting tattoos, he was taking Misty out to eat, he was going to the Fair, he was going to the racetrack, and guess what we learned on this program a couple of weeks ago, according to Kim Picazio, that Ronald Cummings after shooting an episode of Nancy Grace where he turned on the tears for the camera, got up, left his mom sitting there crying and went mud bogging.

HOLLY HUGHES: Oh yeah, none of this surprises me. I mean, why work for a living when someone else will pay for your lifestyle? Good heavens, I mean if I had people sending me money in the mail, I wouldn’t work another day in my life! Shoot I would be out there buying myself $1200 Lindsey Lohan shoes. And let’s talk about the tears for a second.

LEVI PAGE: And on his truck, he put this sticker on his truck that says, “Only God Can Judge Me!” Who does that when their child is missing? Only someone who knows that they have done something wrong. He knows he’s done something wrong.

HOLLY HUGHES: He is going to get his wish Levi and that is perfectly okay with me. He is going to get his wish okay, he will be judged let me tell you something. But in the meantime, let’s talk about two issues: the tears, I could grasp the fact that he has tears but let me tell you something, do we all remember Susan Smith?

LEVI PAGE: Yup.

HOLLY HUGHES: Susan Smith stood in front of those cameras and sobbed and cried “I love my babies, I want my babies back, whoever’s got my babies, please bring my children back”. P.S. in the meantime, she knows that they are still strapped in their car seats at the bottom of the lake where she left them. So the fact that he can go on there and turn on the tears means nothing to me. I have seen it all, heard it all, and it means nothing except, so the tears don’t mean anything, I lost my train of thought Levi: I went off on that rant Levi because I was so mad about that.

LEVI PAGE: Remember Susan Smith killed her children because she had a boyfriend that didn’t like the fact that she had children so she decided to kill the children and a lot of times children get in the way of the lifestyle that you want to lead, and if Ronald wants to lead a lifestyle of doing drugs, having sex with underage women, it is kind of hard to do that when you got two children you got to take care of.

HOLLY HUGHES: That’s exactly right. Yeah. That’s a lot of responsibility. So frightening, frightening, you need a license to go fishing but anyone can have a child, that’s scares me.

LEVI PAGE: That is exactly true and you know what else is interesting is a lot of people take a quote that LE use and they say “Ronald Cummings is not a suspect” and I try to explain that the reason LE made that quote is because they are not going to come out and say, “oh we think this guy is a suspect” if they want to get this guy to talk. This guy was not cooperating with them: he was not coming in for questioning. They want to get him in so they are going to say “he is not a suspect”, they are going to say, “hey no pressure, come in and talk with us”.

HOLLY HUGHES: That is exactly right. There are certain rights that have to be read to you if you are under arrest, if you are in custody they have to tell you about your Miranda rights, they have to advise you that you have the right to remain silent, you can have an attorney present, if you are not a suspect, if you are not under arrest or under suspicion and you are just a “witness” they don’t have to go through all those hoops, they don’t have to give you your rights, they can say it’s a friendly conversation, let’s find out what you know. So yeah let’s face it Levi, there is no statute of limitations on murder, so they can call him whatever they like until they develop enough information to put him in a different category, he’s not a suspect. But if and when they find enough evidence to believe he had something to do with the murder of the little girl, then they just go ahead and arrest him at that point and then everybody knows what he is.

LEVI PAGE: Everybody with us is Holly Hughes, she is a former prosecutor and defense attorney, a very well known attorney out of the Georgia jurisdiction in Atlanta, she has prosecuted and handled many, many violent crimes cases. She is very familiar with these types of cases. You know Holly what is interesting to me is that we are hearing now according to my sources that after Ron got his 15-years sentence, the detectives in this case made a Bee-line over to Misty Croslin, they got Misty Croslin and put her under a grueling cross-examination and apparently this had Misty upset, she was completely devastated about this. She was so torn up about this: this really got to her. She was crying to her mother and while her mother is not currently behind bars, although she was previously behind bars, she cried to her mother about this and apparently LE threatened her with murder charges and said that if you don’t talk Misty, if you don’t tell us what happened, you are going to go away for 50 years.

HOLLY HUGHES: Well okay, here’s the thing. First of all, they are only telling her the truth because if they can develop enough information to put her involved in this little girl’s murder, I mean let’s face it, she was the last person to see her, she didn’t report her missing when it first happened, she waited till Ron got home to do anything about it. She was out-of-communication for a long time, I mean Ron made 90, 90, nine zero calls to the house? What the heck is that about? I mean obviously if she is not picking up the phone, she’s not there so you know what, she is obviously so upset that you go looking for her, you get in the truck and leave work saying there has to be some sort of emergency and I have to go check on my family. So something is up and this is psychological warfare okay? She is watching everybody else in this case plead out and get their sentences. What she has always wanted is for Ronald to stick by her and Ron to be on her side, well now the fact that he got a pretty light sentence all things considered, it’s got to make her nervous, she has got to wonder what he said because he knows something and what she is doing now is sitting there going “oh crap, I’m by myself, I’m on my own, the last person that I thought would turn on me, has turned on me, has given information to the Police”. So she is as nervous as a cat on a hot tin roof and she ought to be.

LEVI PAGE: And I think what LE did, I know that a lot of people are outraged about this plea deal. They wanted Ronald Cummings to get the maximum, and believe me I would have liked nothing more, but what I think this plea deal is, is a strategy by LE to sort of drive a wedge between Misty and Ron, they want to drive this wedge between them because they have stuck together and this gets Misty nervous. This gets Misty wondering what is Ronald saying about me, Ronald my protector, who protected me from the Police, what is he saying about me? This gets Misty nervous and this could possibly get her to talk. This got her upset. She was whining to her mother. Do you think she is close to cracking?

HOLLY HUGHES: I think she may be because now she is getting the idea that she is out there on her own and as long as everybody keeps their mouth shut, nobody gets in trouble, because no one is talking, no one is saying anything but when you got a guy that is caught on video tape participating in drug trafficking and he is facing 70, 80 and 90 years and all of a sudden he walks away with a sweetheart deal of 15, let me tell you something that makes her wonder what has he said, what has he promised them, what has he told them, and why am I the last Mohican standing okay? She does not want to be out there on her own and she is going to begin to wonder if she has been thrown under the bus and quite frankly she should wonder because let’s face it Levi, there is no honor amongst thieves okay. All the racks from a sinking ship, you know how they do that, they abandon once it starts to go down, well let me tell you something, this ship is sinking and
everybody is jumping off and Misty is going to be the last one on deck wondering about “oh crap, am I going to go down with the ship?” so yeah, she should be nervous. She absolutely should be upset. She should be wondering what Ron has told the police because let me tell you something, he doesn’t have any loyalty to her, his loyalty is to save his own behind and if he thinks throwing her under the bus will get him something, he’ll do it. He already agreed he would testify against her in the drug trial.

LEVI PAGE: Apparently Holly, Misty’s family is outraged. They’re mad about this because they are saying “Misty tell us what you know”. They are even putting the pressure on Misty to tell what she knows.

HOLLY HUGHES: Right, because they care about her and they see the writing on the wall. I mean she may be too involved to see it, Misty may still have feelings for Ron and she thinks it’s going to be okay because he wouldn’t say anything that would really get her into any trouble. They are standing on the outside and Misty has to wake up and smell the coffee, do you not see what is happening here? He is ratting your behind out. He is and the other thing I wanted to point out, I know people are upset that he didn’t get the maximum, but here is the thing, he is going to do every day of that time, and 15 years is a long time to be sitting in prison because every day that he is sitting there in prison, the police are out there investigating that crime, and you know what the beauty of this is, none of these defendants are going anywhere, they are all going to be in prison, they are not going to be out there destroying any evidence they think might be left or silence any witnesses who may want to talk. Police are going to take advantage of that time, there is no statute of limitations on murder and they are going to keep working this case and keep working this case. None of these people are geniuses. Let’s put it that way to be polite.

LEVI PAGE: No.

HOLLY HUGHES: So you know what? They did not commit the perfect crime. They are just not that smart so somewhere out there is evidence and sad to say it is eventually going to be the body of the little girl that we recover; so this will be solved. I don’t have any doubt that this will be solved and in the meantime,

LEVI PAGE: It seems they are on the final stretches.

HOLLY HUGHES: That is exactly right and at least we know where the criminals are in the meantime.

LEVI PAGE: Yeah

HOLLY HUGHES: They are not out there hurting anybody else. They’re not committing anymore crimes. They are sitting still and thinking about what they have done.

LEVI PAGE: Exactly right and Holly, what is interesting is that Chelsea Croslin, I just learned this before we went to air, is scheduled to go on Nancy Grace Monday night and she promises that she will blow the case wide open. Do you think that Misty could have said something to one of her family members, such as Chelsea Croslin, her sister-in-law, with whom she is very close to? I have seen them talk on those jailhouse videos, they seem very close, do you think she would tell her sister-in-law something that could be incriminating to either one of the players in this case such as herself, Ron, or Tommy?

HOLLY HUGHES: Yes absolutely. Let me tell you something. Do you know the only way two people can keep a secret Levi, if one of them is dead okay? People cannot keep secrets. When you are involved in something like this, I don’t care how hard you are, or how bad assed you think you are, it’s going to weigh on you, it’s going to weigh on you okay? And Misty is not some genius criminal and I don’t think she is a psychopath or sociopath either, I mean I don’t think she would go out and kill anybody else. So that means that somewhere in there, there is a conscience and in there is the feeling that she needs to talk about this, she needs to get it off her chest, so I would not be surprised at all if she didn’t say something to Chelsea and now that Chelsea is seeing the writing on the wall and seeing that the Cummings are selling out the Croslin’s, she just might be mad enough to spill the beans.

LEVI PAGE: Yes, because she has dropped nuggets out there in the past, little bitsy nuggets of information on various shows. Who knows if she was telling the truth or not. I mean obviously if you are in this family you got a little credibility problem. Everybody we are talking about the HaLeigh Cummings case, today a Judge brings down the gavel on Ronald Cummings and sentences him to 15 years despite his crying jags from his own mother who begged for leniency. The Judge didn’t buy it; the Judge said Ronald is responsible for his own actions. Ron drug trafficking caught on video callously talking about how drug boys didn’t kill his little girl HaLeigh who has been missing for a year and a half. No answers yet but it seems like we are getting some action in this case as Misty Croslin is interrogated, going through a brutal interrogation by the Putnam County Sherriff’s Office. Misty Croslin threatened by the detective that if she does not give up information and give it up soon, she will be charged with murder and she will be facing 50 years behind bars. Are we close to getting answers in this case? I am Levi Page along with Holly Hughes. You know Holly, what do you think about this Joe Overstreet story? Do you think this has any credence to it? That he is involved?

HOLLY HUGHES: You know I really don’t buy it. I really don’t. Like we were talking about earlier Levi, if he was involved, would not that have been the first words out of your mouth? I mean you would immediately tell the cops “this maniac is out there, he did this to this little girl, I tried to help but he beat me up, so you want to go arrest him and get him off the streets right now because I am so scared that he is going to come back and do something to the rest of us”. When was the first time we heard Joe Overstreet’s name in connection with this investigation? Wasn’t it like a year into it? Wasn’t it like a substantially long time before anyone even came up with that?

LEVI PAGE: And not to mention this is what the billionth story that we have heard from Tommy and Misty because Misty Croslin at first said “oh it’s the mother’s side of the family, oh it was a strange and I don’t know anything”, No you do know what happened that night. And then we have Tommy Croslin saying “I went over to the house and I knocked on the door and nobody was home”. LE didn’t buy that, LE strapped him up to a polygraph and he failed every polygraph he took, just like his sister. They know what happened that night. LE isn’t buying it and then when they get thrown in jail, oh Joe did it.

HOLLY HUGHES: Exactly. Let’s try and give them somebody else. Let’s try and muddy the waters because clearly the lies we’ve told so far haven’t helped us. Yet I don’t believe for a second what they are saying about Joe Overstreet, because it was about a year into the investigation that they even mentioned him and that is insane. If you are truly, truly, terrified of somebody, well okay, how come you are terrified of him a year later? I mean if you are terrified of him the entire time, why would you just a year later throw his name out there? You’re not still afraid? Did your fear dissipate? I mean, what happened? This apparently is the guy that has been victimizing and molesting you in your life and you have never reported him to the cops because you are so scared of him. Then he takes this little girl and snatches her and you’re so afraid that you don’t report it to the Police right away, but then a year later, you’re like suddenly I’m not afraid of him anymore. Yeah okay I’ll tell you about it, it was Joe. What is that? What is that? That’s not even credible. Where is that story supposed to have come from? That is another sad attempt because the police aren’t buying the lies they have bandied around so far, so they are like well that’s not working so let’s try something else. Hey I know, let’s throw Joe under the bus. No, no, I don’t believe it. I would be very, very surprised if it turns out that he had anything to do with it, I really would. This doesn’t even make sense; you can’t get a machine gun so you’re going to snatch a child? What? In what Universe?

LEVI PAGE: You are going to strangle the child because apparently the father humiliated you in front of everyone so you are going to go strangle his child and dump the child in you know the St. John’s River.

HOLLY HUGHES: Right, it just does not make sense. Now you all know crime doesn’t make sense and there are some crazy people out there, but this story, I don’t buy it.

LEVI PAGE: No, it doesn’t make sense. It shows me that since Tommy Croslin got 15 years in prison, and they even remarked about how none of the information that he has given them has been credible, that LE isn’t buying it either.

HOLLY HUGHES: Correct, absolutely. If they had any good information they would have solved this case by now so we know that everybody they have talked to thus far has not given them anything good.

LEVI PAGE: But it looks like the squeeze is working.

HOLLY HUGHES: Well, let’s hope so. Let’s hope she is feeling the alienation and realizes she better pony up soon.

LEVI PAGE: Yeah alright everybody, our guest is Holly Hughes. Holly thank you so much for being with us. It was great talking to you.

HOLLY HUGHES: Absolutely, and you too Levi.

LEVI PAGE: Everybody, next week we are going to be on and Nancy Grace is going to be on the Show and we are going to discuss her new show, Swift Justice, and get her thoughts on the HaLeigh Cummings case so tune in. I am Levi Page signing off, good night.

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/levipage/2010/09/25/levi-page-show
 
Issues Transcript:

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1010/08/ijvm.01.html

Coming up, breaking news in the desperate search for Haleigh Cummings. Misty Croslin breaks down in court as she hears her sentence. It`s unbelievable.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight -- breaking news. Are we any closer to solving the Haleigh Cummings homicide? Or is the secret of what happened to the precious child 19 months ago locked up forever?

Just hours ago, little Haleigh`s teenage baby-sitter and one-time stepmom, Misty, was sentenced to 25 years in prison and fined $500,000 for her role in a prescription drug trafficking ring.

During the dramatic hearing, Misty made a shocking claim about being raped in the seventh grade. Misty became hysterical -- and I mean hysterical -- when her own mother took the stand to testify on her behalf. We`ll tell you what Lisa Croslin had to say in moments.

Misty is now the fifth and final dealer in a tight-knit bunch of bandits to be snared in an undercover videotaped sting, copped a plea and be sent away. So, what does this mean for the unsolved mystery of Haleigh`s disappearance and presumed death? Do investigators still have scare tactics up their sleeve to squeeze Misty for the truth? Does Misty even know the truth?

Misty`s sister-in-law Chelsea says yes, she does and explains why.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHELSEA CROSLIN, MISTY CROSLIN`S SISTER-IN-LAW: Misty`s not afraid of Ronald hurting her. Misty is so infatuated and in love with Ronald that she thinks that she has to keep the secret for him, whatever it may be. He has her so in her mind thinking that she is implicated just as much as he is because she was the one at home that night with her.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Meantime, the justice system is not done with Misty, not by a long shot. Today`s sentencing was just one of eight counts that`s she faces. She could face additional prison time later in the month for the other seven counts.

I want to begin not with our fantastic panel but with somebody who`s very, very close to all of this. Chelsea Croslin. You are the sister-in- law of Misty Croslin.

You just found out that Misty, who I understand you have strong feelings for, familial ties, an 18-year-old girl is going to spend at least the next 25 years of her life behind bars. That means -- well, when they do the other counts, who knows if she`ll ever see the outside of a prison again. What is your reaction to this news?

C. CROSLIN: It makes me so mad. It makes me so angry because I just don`t think that it`s fair. Misty was 18. Yes, she was doing something wrong, selling drugs. But she was doing it because she was under the control of Ronald, just like this Haleigh stuff.

Misty wasn`t a drug dealer. Misty did what Ronald said. Misty went by Ronald`s lead. Misty only sold what Ronald told her to sell. And for 25 years plus more for an 18-year-old little girl -- that`s just outrageous to me.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: What would you say to Misty right now? Apparently when she heard the sentence she just became hysterical in court, which is totally understandable. I mean, I think we feel like we all know her at this point. We`ve watched her so much. I have to say that my heart breaks for her as a human being, one human being to another.

C. CROSLIN: I don`t -- I just -- I don`t even know what to say to her. I don`t know how to get through to her any more at this point because, you know, I believe Misty maybe has told what she knows. Maybe she has.

I spoke with her the other day on the phone and she said that she`s promised me -- she said, I swear to God, Chelsea, I would tell if I knew any more than I`ve already told. She said, I told them everything. But the police don`t believe me and they don`t want to hear it.

It`s Ronald. They don`t want to believe Ronald had anything to do with this disappearance. They cleared Ronald from day one. They were best friends with Ronald, riding around with him, hanging out with him, like he was their buddy or something. I don`t --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, he`s doing 15 years. He is doing 15 years, Chelsea. He also got sentenced. And he`s doing 15.

C. CROSLIN: Out of five charges. Out of five charges. Tommy had one charge and got 15 years. Ronald had five charges. What was his plea deal? That he knew so much that got him out of the other two. He`s the drug boy. Doesn`t everyone hear him saying that on the jail tape?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I`ve got to tell you today`s hearing was emotion-packed, and Misty took the stand in her own defense and claimed she was raped in the seventh grade. What do you know about that, Chelsea?

C. CROSLIN: Misty had her virginity taken from her by a man who brought her out in the woods and raped her and beat her. And we found her with sticks in her hair when we had to call the police and have them come help her and bring her to a victim advocate. DNA was done.

Misty went through so much trauma after that. She stopped going to school. She was scared of everybody. And he only got sentenced to eight years. His name is (INAUDIBLE). He`s a rapist and pedophile and he got eight years in prison. That`s it. Eight years.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, Misty`s mother also testified on her behalf. Lisa Croslin admitted on the stand that she was a terrible mother to Misty who used drugs while she was raising Misty. She also admitted to blackmailing Misty for Xanax during the Haleigh investigation.

I`ve got to go to Art Harris on this. What on earth kind of information would Lisa, who you`re looking at right there have on Misty that she would blackmail her own daughter while they`re searching for Haleigh?

ART HARRIS, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: Jane, we reported this at artharris.com. Do you remember when Lisa Croslin was claiming she suspected Misty knew a lot more than she was revealing a long time ago? That was at a point when Misty had Xanax that both Lisa and her husband Hank wanted. And she would not give it to them according to my sources. And that is what Lisa -- you know, it led Lisa to perhaps dangle this, "I`ll tell more if you don`t give me the drugs."

BEHAR: Here`s my big issue, and it`s called turn of the screw. Misty is charged with a total of eight counts, but today`s sentencing was only for one count, and she got 25 years, a quarter of a century. So why not sentence her to everything? Could this be a clever way to turn the screw and say to Misty, hey, ok, you`re getting 25 years, but you could get the rest of your life, Levi Page?

LEVI PAGE, CRIME BLOGGER: Yes. I mean, that`s a good way to get her to talk. And you know, I agree with Chelsea in the sense that Ronald is involved, but I disagree with Chelsea saying that Misty has told all. I mean she`s failed lie detector, she failed a layered voice analysis. I think she knows more than what she`s saying. And it`s obvious.

And let`s remember Ronald Cummings in a situation over a year ago had Misty and himself put a headless rat in Tommy Croslin`s mailbox, a headless rat. And Tommy -- Ronald told Tim Miller, I told Misty to lie for me and give me an alibi because I wanted to see how good she lies. Only someone that is guilty that wants Misty to cover for him would say something like that.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And I have to say --

(CROSSTALK)

PAGE: She`s a 17-year-old girl that he can control very easily.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ok. I have to say that there`s a standing invitation for Ron`s lawyer -- Ron is behind bars -- but Ron`s to come on and tell his side of the story. We want to be fair here.

There are two --

HARRIS: Jane --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Go ahead, Art.

HARRIS: Jane, I can tell you that this is just the first course law enforcement has planned for Misty; she has seven more counts facing her. And they hope that between now and three weeks from now when she comes back to court that she will crack even more.

You saw that two weeks ago I reported artharris.com that she did give up some information she had never revealed before. Whether it`s true or not she said --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Like what?

HARRIS: Her brother Tommy was the one who took Haleigh from the trailer.

C. CROSLIN: That`s a lie, Art. She never said that. That`s a lie.

HARRIS: She said that.

(CROSSTALK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let`s hear Chelsea. Wait a second. I want to hear from Chelsea. Hold on.

(CROSSTALK)

HARRIS: I don`t know what you know, but I do.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let`s hear Chelsea`s side.

C. CROSLIN: I know exactly what her lawyer told me, that that was a lie. Misty never once said her brother is the one that took -- Tommy has no ambition and no reason to do anything with Haleigh.

(CROSSTALK)

HARRIS: Well, he may have been taking her --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: One at a time.

C. CROSLIN: That was a lie that Misty never said that. That came out of her lawyer`s mouth. Why would a lawyer lie and say that when he`s already said everything that he said.

MARK EIGLARSH, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: That`s right. Lawyers don`t lie.

HARRIS: I have other sources, Chelsea. And I hate to say it but that is what --

C. CROSLIN: Other sources aren`t Misty. Misty and the lawyer are the only two people who would know.

HARRIS: No, no. There was interrogation, Chelsea -- there was interrogation by law enforcement, by investigators at the prison.

C. CROSLIN: Law enforcement told us all we did it, Art Harris. Law enforcement told us all we did it. They say everything and anything they can to get you to try and say whatever you want. They try to tell me I did it. They told my husband he did it. They told Tommy he did it. They say whatever they can until someone gives them what they want.

They`re going to tell Misty, they`re going to give her the frigging world in prison if she doesn`t tell what they`re going to hear. That`s not -- interrogation is nothing. What comes out of Misty`s mouth and Misty`s lawyer`s mouth is what`s believable.

(CROSSTALK)

HARRIS: Misty said Tommy knows everything. She told law enforcement to go talk to Tommy, that he knows everything and your grandmother told me, Chelsea, that she was talking to Tommy and he said to come visit him on the yard in the prison where nobody had a telephone call that could be taped and he would tell her details.

C. CROSLIN: Which grandmother? Is that Nanny Flo?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ok. Hold on. We have to take a break. We`re going to have more on Misty Croslin on the other side.

An absolutely stupendous day, not for her; big news but it`s tragic news. She is sentenced to a quarter of a century behind bars. More next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MISTY CROSLIN, RONALD CUMMING`S FORMER WIFE: She is up there and she`s real nice. She did my hair. Can you see it?

LISA CROSLIN, MISTY CROSLIN`S MOTHER: Yes. I see it. It looks real good. I`ll have mine done like that.

M. CROSLIN: She had it to do it through the little bars, but she did it for me.

L. CROSLIN: Don`t cut it.

M. CROSLIN: I`m not cutting it. I`m going to (EXPLETIVE DELETED) and cut my hair.

L. CROSLIN: No and don`t cut it at all.

M. CROSLIN: They can all put this on TV and kiss my (EXPLETIVE DELETED).

L. CROSLN: That`s right.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Breaking news tonight -- Misty Croslin, unlike that video there, very emotional, breaking down, crying hysterically in court as she is sentenced to 25 years behind bars and slapped with a $500,000 fine for drug trafficking. Her life effectively ruined.

Will any amount of prison time scare Misty into talking about what happened to little Haleigh? And what about Haleigh`s visibly distraught dad, Ron -- what, if anything, does he know?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RONALD CUMMINGS, HALEIGH CUMMINGS` FATHER: Please, if you have my daughter, bring her home. Please. All I want is Haleigh. That`s all I want. I don`t want nothing else but Haleigh. That`s it. Please, if you have her, bring her home.

Baby, if you`re watching, you know you`ll always be daddy`s little girl. I love you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: By the way, we reached out to Ron`s attorney regarding accusations against him in the Haleigh mystery. He has declined comment.

Victoria, Florida, your question or thought, ma`am.

VICTORIA, FLORIDA: Hi, Jane.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hi.

VICTORIA: First off I wanted to say I love your show.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you.

VICTORIA, FLORIDA (via telephone): I just wanted to say, coming from a former law enforcement officer and also I`m in recovery for addiction myself that the bottom line is drugs and everything like that, it`s going to equate jails, institutions and death. And I think Misty has been very deceptive the whole time and it`s very tragic about little Haleigh. But I think Misty Croslin got what she deserved.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow. Well, and she hasn`t even gotten everything that she`s going to get. Again, she`s going to court and get sentenced for more and could spend the rest of her life in prison.

Does anybody on this panel -- and obviously Chelsea you have compassion for her -- but does anybody on this panel as a human being have compassion for this 18-year-old?

EIGLARSH: Jane -- Jane, I do.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Go ahead Mark.

PAGE: I will whenever she tells what happened.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Mark. Mark.

EIGLARSH: Let me -- let me say this, we know probably two things about Misty. Number one, she loves her cigarettes and number two probably knows more about where Haleigh is. So I do -- my first reaction was, oh 25 years, maybe we`ll learn more now as a result.

But here`s what I`m thinking. This judge might have factored in too, the fact that this is a high-profile case, that she may, if there are big numbers put on the board, somehow will lead to further information. That to me is considering things that are outside what she is being sentenced for, and that sets a very dangerous precedent. She`s 18 years old, no priors. Obviously a horrible life, that the judge could have consider for mitigation.

I`m just suggesting that 25 years just five years under the maximum, especially when she didn`t go to trial, might be deemed excessive.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now --

(CROSSTALK)

HARRIS: Jane --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: -- could they undo that in any way, shape or form, down the road if she decides to talk?

EIGLARSH: Yes.

HARRIS: Yes.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Go ahead, Mark.

EIGLARSH: Yes, what the defense would do is file a motion to mitigate or the prosecutors would go in there and, yes, an agreed-upon order, the judge can reduce the sentence. Hopefully that`s what takes place.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, there are two emerging scenarios --

HARRIS: I don`t think it is --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: -- of what might have happened to Haleigh.

One points the finger at Misty`s brother Tommy and Cousin Joe. Joe denies having anything to do with Haleigh vanishing. And the other looks squarely at Ron. Let`s listen to both scenarios.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FLO HOLLARS, MISTY CROSLIN`S GRANDMOTHER: Tommy and Joe had wrapped Misty I mean have wrapped in a yellow robe and tied a brick to it and throw her off the dock in the St. John`s river.

C. CROSLIN: My theory of what happened that night is that Haleigh OD`d in the home. I think she got a-hold of Ronald`s pills and she died accidentally. I think that the argument phone calls between Ronald and Misty were over how to get rid of the body.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Chelsea, you said you spoke just the other day to Misty. You know she`s facing this enormous jail time. Did you try to shake some sense into her and say, tell us what really happened? It`s not -- it`s not that difficult to explain if -- if you know the truth. Just spit it out.

C. CROSLIN: I did. I did. I asked her -- I asked her if she had heard that I came on the show the other day and she said yes. I asked if anyone had showed her the tape and she said no. Why? And I just broke down.

And I said, Misty, you don`t understand how bad this hurts us and how bad you`re hurting your family and what we`re going through. We`re the ones taking the rap for this.

And we`re the ones who have to live through this every single day not knowing what happened, not knowing who`s hiding what from us. And I asked if Ronald had anything to do with it, and she told me she can`t tell me over the phone. She said she told the cops everything but they don`t believe her. And she said that she did take a lie detector -- but that she wants to take a lie detector on what she told the police recently but they won`t give her one.

(CROSSTALK)

CROSLIN: And she also --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But I don`t even understand what the last thing she told police is at this point. My head is swimming. What is the last story that she told, Art Harris?

HARRIS: I can tell you that when she was interviewed two weeks ago Friday, Jane, she said Tommy knows everything. And despite what her lawyer told Chelsea, my sources say that she also said that Tommy took Haleigh from the trailer. Not that Tommy hurt Haleigh but that he took her from the trailer.

(CROSSTALK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But that`s different --

HARRIS: And that Joe was innocent -- that is very different from what she said before. Yes.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: -- from what Grandma Flo says she told. So what do we have here?

HARRIS: And Grandma Flo told me actually also, Jane --

(CROSSTALK)

PAGE: That`s -- that`s the problem -- Jane --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hold -- Levi Page?

PAGE: Yes, you know, what I think is interesting here is that she`s told so many stories that anything she has is going to have to be verified by a polygraph.

HARRIS: That`s right.

PAGE: And let me say something. Let me defend the police in this case. I don`t think that the police are friendly with Ronald Cummings. I think they know that he has some involvement. I think the reason they gave him a plea deal is because he gave them new information.

Now think about this, why would Ronald only give information? Oh he did it to save his own butt from going to jail for a very long time. And if he gave them new information, why he didn`t give that up in the very beginning of the case? You know why -- because he got an attorney very early on.

Major Derry Bowing (ph) was quoted --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Got to leave it there.

(CROSSTALK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Guys, I`m going to have you back on Monday. We`re going to talk about this again on Monday. Chelsea, join us on Monday.
 
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DNASolves

Who is Escambia County John Doe (1989)?

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