MS autopsy report is pretty conclusive on the cause of his death. Again, it makes no sense for LE, the ME or physicians involved in his treatment to lie or attempt to cover up MS cause of death. There's no motivation for them to do so. To continue to accuse them of such is bizarre, to say the least. JMO.
Max's Search Warrants Released!!!! Discuss Max's Death here #2
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MS autopsy report is pretty conclusive on the cause of his death. Again, it makes no sense for LE, the ME or physicians involved in his treatment to lie or attempt to cover up MS cause of death. There's no motivation for them to do so. To continue to accuse them of such is bizarre, to say the least. JMO.
It does not state that the message was "terrible". It states that the message said RZ was told MS was going to die. That is a fact (a fact that he was going to die, I mean).
I also have not seen a single statement from the family that accused RZ of anything.
I don't think anyone is disputing the cause of MS's death. What people are questioning (the ICU specialist, myself, and others) is what happened prior to that point.
how is he being blamed for his death? when kids have accidents, it's most often no one's fault especially when they happen to be inquisitive, athletic, and active. my siblings and i have been in enough accidents when we were younger to know just how common they are. i often did a lot of things when i was a kid that i would never dream of doing or even trying now, it's amazing how i was able to survive in one piece at all. i would never blame max for his accident, it's a tragedy and i don't think he should ever be blamed for it. i also don't think rebecca should be blamed for his death when there is no evidence that she hurt him intentionally. the AR and LE findings say that it was an accident and there is no evidence that contradicts that finding. the doctor who previously examined him talked about visible injuries, not the internal ones. if there is any proof that Max had been hurt or unconscious prior to falling down the railings, i'd sure like to see it. so far, your scenario depicting Rebecca capable of throwing max down the stairway forcefully is far less believable. if Rebecca had tried to make Max unconscious by trying to suffocate him prior to his fall, there should or would have been scratch marks on her hands and arms. there should have been cuts on her as well, a boy like Max would have struggled to free himself from Rebecca's grip and even though she may have been strong, Max wasn't exactly a weakling either. he was an athletic boy, i have enough trouble trying to control my toddler when he has his tantrums and i can imagine how much more difficult it would be to restrain and render an athletic six year old unconscious without any aid of drugs.
Are you really suggesting that a 100 lb woman throwing a 57 lb child off the balcony will be able to achieve higher velocity than that same child running or using his scooter going off the balcony? RN was not a superwoman.
Rhyme & Reason
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Exactly. It has nothing to do with intelligence.
I wasn't trying to blame the doctor at all. I believe he was well within his rights to report any suspicions he might have had, and what he did was completely appropriate imo. It's just that some people here have previously accused Rebecca of being negligent because they stated that she should have constantly supervised him even though a few of us have argued that a boy his age didn't need continuous supervision. But now that this whole suffocation story came out, a few of the people who were on board the negligent theory seem now to be suggesting that Max was incapable of getting into any accidents because he was smart for his age and therefore Rebecca was the one who harmed him. Either scenario still puts the entire blame on Rebecca, even though it may have been a simple matter of an accident that was really no one's fault.
I agree. But i don't see how saying that Rebecca wasn't giving Max cpr after his fall is going after the truth, especially when there is no evidence to support that theory. that is victim blaming imo.
yes, but I don't know why some people have also tried to insinuate (without evidence) that the only reason why the Zahaus are intent on getting this case opened again is because they are after money i.e a civil lawsuit. let's speculate on the deaths, but why accuse Rebecca's family of such things? Fair enough if some want to blame Rebecca or suspect Rebecca to have done something wrong, but let's also not accuse her of doing something like failing to provide cpr when there is no evidence to back that up.
yes, some have blamed them but I don't think anyone who have blamed jonah, dina, adam and the others have accused or blamed Max of anything though. the victims here are both Rebecca and Max, but Rebecca and even her entire family, including Rebecca's own under age sister, are the ones being blamed or accused of wrongdoing by a few others. that's what i meant by anger and hostility. Rebecca and her entire family seem to be viewed in a hostile manner, which i have not seen in Max's case. most people have said that he was a beautiful innocent boy who suffered a horrendous accident, and i have not read anything to suggest that people blamed him for what happened to him. i don't think anyone would blame kids who ever drowned in swimming pools or fallen off balconies or windows or trees that they were at fault. most everyone understands kids are just being kids, that they are not aware enough sometimes of the actual dangers that can befall them. that's why they are often the ones to suffer from accident related injuries.
justbetweenus
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From this link:
Nalepa was at home with the boy when he was injured, Romano said. The boy underwent an MRI on Wednesday afternoon, she said.
I'm sure they would have done every test possible, with every modern piece of technology equipment they had on both his head and spine.
justbetweenus
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:::Standing ovation::: Very well said. Wish I had more time....later.
I wish XZ would write an artile "Life at the Mansion prior to Max and Rebecca's death.
Include information regarding who looked after Max, where was JS, how often he was home, the relationship (as she saw it) between JS and RZ, and last but not least, if RZ said anything at all that now rings bells or warning signs in her (XZ) head....
Include information regarding who looked after Max, where was JS, how often he was home, the relationship (as she saw it) between JS and RZ, and last but not least, if RZ said anything at all that now rings bells or warning signs in her (XZ) head....
BBM: ITA! I believe JS/DS would have the best of the best, to diagnose Max. What I don't understand is that it sounds liek it took 4 days for docs to realize Max had spine injury? Wouldn't that be one of the first things they look for in a fall like that?
Rhyme & Reason
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Wednesday afternoon was after Rebecca's death.
Well, we do know from a verfied insider (and from Zahau family) that Dina did not like Rebecca. We know Dina was already filing something with CPS before any autopsy or advanced testing was done on Max. We know someone seemed to purposefully state her name as Nalepa and it's suspected so the shoplifting thing would be presented in the news yet we are not supposed to get into their private business of prolonged abuse. We know Nina called her late at night and asked to come over - not saying this is mistreatment but it's odd even without Rebecca's dying with a few hours or less. There is Jonah's supposed phone message. There is lack of any real statement of concern for Rebecca by Jonah after her death and his insinuation and Adam's that she hung herself immediately. It appear she was used as a shuttle. Whether it's mistreatment, not being responsible, not caring, abuse of power, or what, none of it screams being respectful and mourning a second, and senseless, death.
There are various ways that children can be subdued so that they can't fight back. I'll leave it at that. And please note that I've not named names nor accused anyone of any crimes. I specifically am focusing on little Max and the specifics of his death.
Then by all means ask someone for an independent investigation. The results will matter little since RZ is dead as a result of premature (an probably unfounded) accusations by JS and his family against her.
Regardless of your opinion, none of the suspicions or accusations warrant blaming RZ or either forcing her to suicide or murdering her when all the facts about MS accident and injuries were not yet known. Her death resulted because of a hot-headed, violence prone couple's rush to judgement before all the facts were known. JMO.
Something is just not right that papers were already being filed with CPS absent further testing, a second opinion, nor an autopsy. I think it screams some fairly extreme hatred towards Rebecca prior to Max's death to not validate the possibility of suffocation before deciding she was guilty. It was not long before they knew there was no hope for Max and an autopsy would be performed or could be. I think Nina pushed the CPS paperwork to have a record on file against Rebecca. Did she request that LE looked into it as a murder before contacting CPS?
It took 4 days to assess his injuries. His injuries were known on day one.
The doctor didn't need an autopsy before assessing that the injuries did not jive with what he saw on the test results (including MRI). I also don't see how you judge Dr. Peterson for "hating" RZ when he clinically and non-judgementally made as assessment of a dying boy's injuries and acted according to the law.
Please show me a link that proves RZ's death was the result of a hot-headed, violence prone couple's rush to judgement prior to all facts being known.
The ICU doctor contacted the police and the hospital social worker contacted CPS. For all we know, the parents were under suspicion as well. In fact, I'm sure everyone was under suspicion til they got more answers from RZ and proof where everyone was at the time of MS's injuries.
RZ was questioned by the police more than once. That shows they had questions.
From reading the autopsy report -- and I am not any kind of medical expert, I got the impression that when Max landed, he landed head first, not face first, but head first and high on the forehead, so that it was the upper 1/2 or 1/3 of his forehead that took the brunt of the impact. I got this impression from the description of the bruising on his head (that's if I read it right) and the fact that there was no real damage to his face.
I think, just by putting the heel of my hand on the upper 1/3 of my forehead and pushing back, that such a scenario could very likely result in the spinal cord dislocation.
Again - that is just my speculation based on what the autopsy says.
Salem
ETA: I also think it was the scooter that brought the chandiler down, not Max. Having seen a few children go head over heels on bicycles, tricycles and scooters, I can see where Max might have held on to that scooter when he first hit the railing and started to go over, upending the scooter.
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