Alleged alcohol abuse Revisit w/new 2010.11.12 Dateline info

In the Dateline piece on Kyron on Friday November 12, 2010, Desiree said she didn't know about alcohol abuse by Terri as alleged by Kaine in his affidavit.


Here's some reference info:


Desiree about alcohol on Dateline transcribed:

Without a doubt I wish I had known it before.

I wouldn't tolerate it, and if I would have known, I would have taken him out of that house in a second.

Video clip w/Desiree from Dateline that aired on the Today show:
http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/

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Some info from Kaine's affidavit:

6. It was common for Respondent to be visibly impaired from alcohol, i.e., slurring speech, staggering gait, etc. several nights a week. Often, Respondent would pass out on the couch around 7:00 or 8:00p.m. after drinking heavily and would wake up on and off for the rest of the night. Sometimes K would be up with Respondent rather than on a schedule. Respondent spent most nights sleeping on the living room couch with K. Respondent would typically be passed out from heavily drinking. K would be up past midnight playing and/or watching tv until I tried to intervene. Sometimes if I tried to help by putting K to bed, Respondent would become verbally combative and seem offended.

7. It was common to find K up and awake at 1:00 a.m. while Respondent was asleep from alcohol.

Kaine's deposition PDF pages 4 and 5, items 6 and 7:
http://www.kptv.com/download/2010/1026/25509272.pdf

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Terri's DUI in 2005:

A records search of Terri Horman under her current, maiden and previous married names turned up a DUI conviction in 2005 in which she pleaded guilty not only to driving under the influence, but also to "reckless endangerment of another."

Oregon State Police Lt. Gregg Hastings told ABCNews.com that the endangerment charge stemmed from the fact that her son, who was 11 at the time, was in the vehicle when she was stopped.

A spokeswoman for the court in Marion County, Ore., said Horman was sentenced to 12 months probation, a 90-day suspension of her driver's license and she had to attend alcohol counseling programs and attend a victim impact statement.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/kyron-hor...d-explosive-court-documents/story?id=11050953


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Kaine on alcohol in interview:

Note: The baby will be two years old next month, so she was born in November 2008.


January - April 2005, more than three and a half years before the baby was born - Kaine: In 05 when she was doing her competition there was a lot of lies about drinking and substances I think, but, you know, not, and I'm not talking like, you know, narcotics or anything else but...

Kaine: Well I'm talking about like stimulants and things like that, so taking excessive fat burners or aspirin or ibuprofen or - legal things, but taking them in doses far exceeding what a normal person would do. So being somewhat obsessive about it.

The drinking was completely behind my back. She was doing it for four or five months and then she got that DUI that everyone has on record in, I think it was September. And that's the first time I found out that hey, she's been drinking behind my back for six months and she's been drinking herself to sleep every night.

Reporter: Do you believe she has a drinking problem today?

Kaine: Um, I have, so, I, this is, this will be pure speculation... I don't have any facts, but I have had a couple people come forward where we've stayed with them for a period of time and they've made comments that they noticed that their alcohol levels were abruptly down while we were there, and they've just told me that recently. And this is since the DUI.


25 minute audio interview with the Oregonian:
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/terri_hormans_emails_to_kyron.html

Some info from Kaine's affidavit:

6. It was common for Respondent to be visibly impaired from alcohol, i.e., slurring speech, staggering gait, etc. several nights a week. Often, Respondent would pass out on the couch around 7:00 or 8:00p.m. after drinking heavily and would wake up on and off for the rest of the night. Sometimes K would be up with Respondent rather than on a schedule. Respondent spent most nights sleeping on the living room couch with K. Respondent would typically be passed out from heavily drinking. K would be up past midnight playing and/or watching tv until I tried to intervene. Sometimes if I tried to help by putting K to bed, Respondent would become verbally combative and seem offended.

7. It was common to find K up and awake at 1:00 a.m. while Respondent was asleep from alcohol.
Kaine's deposition PDF pages 4 and 5, items 6 and 7:
http://www.kptv.com/download/2010/1026/25509272.pdf

snipped by me from BeanE above.

This seems odd to me. Please understand, I am not slinging arrows at Kaine but simply disturbed by this testimony he's given. He seems, removed from the situation?

If his testimony is true, and I have no reason to doubt it, then I am puzzled by his allowing this to go on at the time. He speaks almost as if it was of concern, but since Terri would become angry if he tried to rectify the situation, he just let it continue without intervention? Perhaps I am reading it wrong or reading too much into it.

tlcox said:

Some info from Kaine's affidavit:

6. It was common for Respondent to be visibly impaired from alcohol, i.e., slurring speech, staggering gait, etc. several nights a week. Often, Respondent would pass out on the couch around 7:00 or 8:00p.m. after drinking heavily and would wake up on and off for the rest of the night. Sometimes K would be up with Respondent rather than on a schedule. Respondent spent most nights sleeping on the living room couch with K. Respondent would typically be passed out from heavily drinking. K would be up past midnight playing and/or watching tv until I tried to intervene. Sometimes if I tried to help by putting K to bed, Respondent would become verbally combative and seem offended.

7. It was common to find K up and awake at 1:00 a.m. while Respondent was asleep from alcohol.
Kaine's deposition PDF pages 4 and 5, items 6 and 7:
http://www.kptv.com/download/2010/1026/25509272.pdf

snipped by me from BeanE above.

This seems odd to me. Please understand, I am not slinging arrows at Kaine but simply disturbed by this testimony he's given. He seems, removed from the situation?

If his testimony is true, and I have no reason to doubt it, then I am puzzled by his allowing this to go on at the time. He speaks almost as if it was of concern, but since Terri would become angry if he tried to rectify the situation, he just let it continue without intervention? Perhaps I am reading it wrong or reading too much into it.

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You didn't underline the part that says:

"Sometimes if I tried to help by putting K to bed, Respondent would become verbally combative and seem offended."

I think that was a nice way of saying that when he intervened to try to put the baby to bed properly, she would call him awful names and start a big fight. I have lived in a home with an alcoholic. I totally read between the lines in his affidavit.

I imagine many times the baby was put into bed at a decent hour. Then she would wake up or was purposely awakened and taken into the living room with Terri. Alcoholics oftentimes don't want to be alone. They need company all the time, even if it is just a baby. When Kaine would wake up, he would go try to put the baby back to bed and get heat from a drunken, combative Terri. Probably just wasn't worth it since Terri was the one who had to deal with a cranky baby the next day.

If all of these things are as Kaine described them, I sure hope he was investigating treatment or divorce or some means of protecting Baby K prior to Kyron's disappearance. Things as he describes them sound pretty out of hand and getting worse. MOO

tlcox said:

If all of these things are as Kaine described them, I sure hope he was investigating treatment or divorce or some means of protecting Baby K prior to Kyron's disappearance. Things as he describes them sound pretty out of hand and getting worse. MOO

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I agree. I wonder if that isn't where some of Terri's anger was stemming from. Kaine insisting she get some help for her alcoholism.

tlcox said:

If all of these things are as Kaine described them, I sure hope he was investigating treatment or divorce or some means of protecting Baby K prior to Kyron's disappearance. Things as he describes them sound pretty out of hand and getting worse. MOO

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Or he was hoping it wasn't as bad as it really was, or was walking on eggshells not wanting to have a big scene after scene in front of the kids. Or maybe she refused any help that he offered. It's not easy to get alcoholics to admit they have problem. It's even harder to force another adult to change. Kaine probably did what he had to and by the sound of it, he didn't realize how bad it was until after Kyron went missing.

People are blind to a lot of things because they love someone, and they excuse a lot of things because they love someone. It may not be right, but it happens. I'm sure Kaine never in his wildest dreams though any harm would come to any of his children. And as he stated himself, she drank mostly behind his back, and he didn't know much of anything until after Kyron went missing. I'm sure he sat there and thought about things in retrospect and realized what really was going on, and that is reflected in the affadavit. I'm sure at the time he wouldn't describe her actions and how she was the way he did in the affadavit. That affadavit is a reflection of him realizing the reality of the situation and taking his blinders off. I'm sure he's horrified that he didn't know more before Kyron went missing.

The DUI was 5 years ago.Not now.I will say so far this is only coming from Kaine that she was drunk on the couch.Why did he ALLOW it to happen.No one else has said this.He will have to have the burden of proof in court and I'm convinced and I feel very strongly he does not have it.I personally feel it's a bunch of BS.

Ms Suzanne said:

The DUI was 5 years ago.Not now.I will say so far this is only coming from Kaine that she was drunk on the couch.Why did he ALLOW it to happen.No one else has said this.He will have to have the burden of proof in court and I'm convinced and I feel very strongly he does not have it.I personally feel it's a bunch of BS.

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Did Terri go to treatment? Was she known to get long term help for her problem? Do you know how many times the average person with a DUI had probably driven before they are caught? A DUI is a strong indicator that someone has an issue. Its like another case I follow, a Dad didn't have an arrest for about 3 years prior to a bunch for a bunch of drugs and people argue, he didnt touch drugs after an arrest and was so grief stricken he started using again, so thats why hes sitting in prison right now. Terri is described as looking tired all the time. What was she doing that her life was making her looked ragged? We have the husband saying she was drinking, has put it as an allegation in court papers, and when confronted with his allegations, she withdrawls. In top of everything, I think she has a major substance abuse issue, for whatever reasons. jmo

Chablis said:

Did Terri go to treatment? Was she known to get long term help for her problem? Do you know how many times the average person with a DUI had probably driven before they are caught? A DUI is a strong indicator that someone has an issue. Its like another case I follow, a Dad didn't have an arrest for about 3 years prior to a bunch for a bunch of drugs and people argue, he didnt touch drugs after an arrest and was so grief stricken he started using again, so thats why hes sitting in prison right now. Terri is described as looking tired all the time. What was she doing that her life was making her looked ragged? We have the husband saying she was drinking, has put it as an allegation in court papers, and when confronted with his allegations, she withdrawls. In top of everything, I think she has a major substance abuse issue, for whatever reasons. jmo

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I've been in recovery for 20 years and a DUI 5 years ago doesn't show me a problem.Apparantly there were no more problems or DUI's after that.I agree,Yes you can relapse.I strongly feel her problems were with Kaine.Not little Kyron.She may have been tired from the stress of thier marriage which I feel was mutual problems between them.I personally feel Kaine has said things that are not true or possibly blown out of porportion.Was he drinking right along with her.Again I do not hear anyone else saying this that he is saying.Just Kaine.Again I say he will have to have the burden of proof and if he is not telling the truth that is perjury.He can get in alot of trouble.Who saw her drink in the middle of the night?No one else was there.He needs to choose his words and allegations very carefully from now on.

Ms Suzanne said:

I've been in recovery for 20 years and a DUI 5 years ago doesn't show me a problem.Apparantly there were no more problems or DUI's after that.I agree,Yes you can relapse.I strongly feel her problems were with Kaine.Not little Kyron.She may have been tired from the stress of thier marriage which I feel was mutual problems between them.I personally feel Kaine has said things that are not true or possibly blown out of porportion.Was he drinking right along with her.Again I do not hear anyone else saying this that he is saying.Just Kaine.Again I say he will have to have the burden of proof and if he is not telling the truth that is perjury.He can get in alot of trouble.Who saw her drink in the middle of the night?No one else was there.He needs to choose his words and allegations very carefully from now on.

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I do think the marriage was in trouble, but I dont think Kaine was enough for Terri, and I do believe he probably was not as attentive as he probably could be towards her. If he was drinking, well, hes over 21, and if he worked all day and took care of his family finacially, hes not the first man to engage in drinking, I just dont think it matters. I think Terris life became unmanageable and she snapped, and I do think she wanted to hurt Kaine, and killing his son is pretty much second to actually killing Kaine, I think those plans fell threw. I do feel she was desperate, and just lost it, there is probably a alcohol issue, on top of a mental issue. But him drinking is the least of anything in Kyron going missing. jmo

Chablis said:

I do think the marriage was in trouble, but I dont think Kaine was enough for Terri, and I do believe he probably was not as attentive as he probably could be towards her. If he was drinking, well, hes over 21, and if he worked all day and took care of his family finacially, hes not the first man to engage in drinking, I just dont think it matters. I think Terris life became unmanageable and she snapped, and I do think she wanted to hurt Kaine, and killing his son is pretty much second to actually killing Kaine, I think those plans fell threw. I do feel she was desperate, and just lost it, there is probably a alcohol issue, on top of a mental issue. But him drinking is the least of anything in Kyron going missing. jmo

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I agree,She probably did want to hurt Kaine.They probably wanted to hurt each other.I don't feel she hurt little Kyron.I use to think someone associate with the school or a pedaphille hurt little Kyron.I am starting to feel they need to look into Terri and Kaine together.It is not ok for him to drink as it is not ok for her to drink.Well,Hopefully they are all getting help if there are any alcohol problems.Recovery is there if they want it.

Ms Suzanne said:

I agree,She probably did want to hurt Kaine.They probably wanted to hurt each other.I don't feel she hurt little Kyron.I use to think someone associate with the school or a pedaphille hurt little Kyron.I am starting to feel they need to look into Terri and Kaine together.It is not ok for him to drink as it is not ok for her to drink.Well,Hopefully they are all getting help if there are any alcohol problems.Recovery is there if they want it.

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But seriously though, what have we seen Kaine wanted to hurt her? I just dont get with what little we know that we can jump that far?

Chablis said:

But seriously though, what have we seen Kaine wanted to hurt her? I just dont get with what little we know that we can jump that far?

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I'll leave this alone.For now.

Chablis said:

But seriously though, what have we seen Kaine wanted to hurt her? I just dont get with what little we know that we can jump that far?

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Answering, knowing this is no doubt a rhetorical question, but theorizing it through, a person could be motivated to harm someone's reputation so thoroughly as to make certain that whatever that person will say in his or her defense will be perceived as defensive and done so out of a motivation of guilt, thus providing the "harmer" with a cover of public perception as a victim to the subject of his or her harm, justifying if you will the harm based upon an accusation of an even more egregious act committed by the subject of the harm.

That's just a theoretical answer to your rhetorical question, bearing nothing much at all upon the case at hand, outside of a remote possibility in a sea of possibilities existing.

Ms Suzanne said:

I'll leave this alone.For now.

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Why though? I mean if there is something to indicate Terri was abused, isnt that kind of important to bring forth? I see the insinuating, but is it based on anything substantiated in actual fact? I am really not trying to be combative, just merely trying to understand.

I think the poster refers to the fact that in a troubled marriage it is common for both parties to wish to cause hurt to the other party. This excessive drinking allegation may be perceived by some posters to be an attempt at hurting Terri or further damaging her credibility. This is certainly possible (the wanting to hurt Terri). If I thought my soon to be exspouse had caused harm to my child I might indeed want to be very hurtful towards them. I understand some folks wanting to believe this drinking thing is "BS".

However, I do not want it to come across as if I believe this testimony regarding the drinking is made up. That is not my belief. I am of the opinion that for a man who does not seem to be demonstrative, and who is very logical in thought process, having to make these details public was probably very distasteful. Very distasteful indeed.

I only wish we had known alot of this information much earlier on. (my Butt is still bruised and tender from having been on that fence for so long!) I do not doubt that LE was clued in early on and this may explain why they were so very focused on Terri from the beginning.

Where is Kyron?

Chablis said:

Why though? I mean if there is something to indicate Terri was abused, isnt that kind of important to bring forth? I see the insinuating, but is it based on anything substantiated in actual fact? I am really not trying to be combative, just merely trying to understand.

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Ok,I'll go here.I will answer this.I feel he has been vindictive and exetremly slandering to her now.It's obnoxious and I don't feel it was about finding little Kyron at all.The focus needs to stay on Kyron.Something is very very wrong here.Nuff said.

Ms Suzanne said:

Ok,I'll go here.I will answer this.I feel he has been vindictive and exetremly slandering to her now.It's obnoxious and I don't feel it was about finding little Kyron at all.The focus needs to stay on Kyron.Something is very very wrong here.Nuff said.

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But how is he supposed to be after cops told him she wanted him dead and shes the last known person with HIS son and she refuses to talk to him about certain things about that day? Wouldnt you be vindictive towards someone withholding info about your missing child? I just dont understand any disdain towards him being angry at her, I mean, really, who wouldn't?

Chablis said:

But how is he supposed to be after cops told him she wanted him dead and shes the last known person with HIS son and she refuses to talk to him about certain things about that day? Wouldnt you be vindictive towards someone withholding info about your missing child? I just dont understand any disdain towards him being angry at her, I mean, really, who wouldn't?

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I have a feeling there were very mutual problems between them.I feel the murder for hire plot was boggus and not proven and he used that to start a divorce that wasn't appropriate to do at the time.I won't post about this any more.All I can say is recovery is there if they want it if there is a problem.

Ms Suzanne said:

Ok,I'll go here.I will answer this.I feel he has been vindictive and exetremly slandering to her now.It's obnoxious and I don't feel it was about finding little Kyron at all.The focus needs to stay on Kyron.Something is very very wrong here.Nuff said.

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I would love to meet the person who isn't "vindictive" toward the person who they believe is the cause of their child being missing or worse for nearly six months. Vindictive wouldn't even begin to cover it for me.

And obnoxious...just wow. That's a word to describe the belligerent drunk that wrecks your holiday party. Not a grieving father who believes his soon-to-be-ex (thank goodness) wife harmed his son in the vilest of ways.

Rock on Kaine. She's lucky she's dealing with you and DY, not me :furious: jmoo