MTR Discussions

nobodyzgirl said:

[*]The reason for the large police presence at his mother's house later was not so much to advise her of her son's arrest and take her in for questioning, but to have enough personnel for a thorough search of the house and to remove potential evidence. Obviously they would want to make sure that she did not destroy or remove any of this potential evidence before they could search and seize.

Snipped by me.

I was going to post almost the exact same thing about the police at MR's house, though AG you beat me to the punch! LOL, I seem to recall DC saying that both she and MR's mother were trying to get ahold of him via text messages and cell, and none of their calls were answered or texts returned, which to me means, he was already in custody and his phone was likely confiscated at that point and LE showed up later, once we was formally charged at his mother's house with a search warrant looking for evidence, etc.

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Very possible in my opinion.

~greeneyedgirl~ said:

but this wouldn't be MTR's car, his was already black, as per the esso picture, am i mistaken on this......

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Yes, as I had posted, I think the media got confused between MTR's car in the Esso video and the blue witness car sought by LE going north on Fyfe right around the time of the abduction.

MOO

http://www.nationalpost.com/related/links/story.html?id=1562561

I'm wondering now if the witness car story and the blue car mentioned in the LFP is the same car. LE released the video of the witness vehicle on May 4th and the LFP story was released on May 27th. In the print article: "Five minutes later, the blue car is seen heading north on the same street" (Fyfe Avenue). Wouldn't LFP retract the story if they were completely wrong on this?

Here is the link to the video of Constable Maitland appealing to the owner of the vehicle to come forward as a potential important witness.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryYisYGew3s&feature=player_embedded"]YouTube - OCPS release video of witness vehicle[/ame]

Here is the link to the LFP article: http://www.lfpress.ca/newsstand/News/2009/05/27/9592696.html

antiquegirl said:

Here is my take on the arrests, police presence, etc.

• I think it's possible that MTR was apprehended when and where he said and taken in to the police station for further questioning. After several hours of interrogation, he was then formally arrested several hours later. Maybe it was his inability to provide an alibi, something else that he said, or LE was still waiting for the warrant to be issued that caused the delay.

BBM: LE did not arrest him out of thin air. Especially when they had already interviewed him at least twice.

• The reason for the large police presence at his mother's house later was not so much to advise her of her son's arrest and take her in for questioning, but to have enough personnel for a thorough search of the house and to remove potential evidence. Obviously they would want to make sure that she did not destroy or remove any of this potential evidence before they could search and seize.

BBM: I would say that the large police presence was very much to advise her of her son's arrest in addition to doing an intense sweep of the house and removing anything and everything of potential interest. Not letting her out of their sight would very much be protocol, IMO, to ensure she did nothing to assist the accused, that would be standard procedure, I would think. There would be ZERO trust of anyone closely affiliated with the accused, and automatic suspicion, until proven otherwise, such as was the case with the family of the victim.

• Both Bleedingheart and Matou have posted theories as to why there may not have been many witnesses to MTR's apprehension at the gym. I have posted why it's possible that the media might not consider this sufficiently interesting enough to publish and it's also possible that LE had asked them not to reveal the info.

BBM: The media would have found this as newsbreaking as finding little Tori, IMO. An arrest after an intense manhunt for 6 weeks, you bet the media would have covered it if they had been tipped off. Which they were not, or we would have known sooner of the arrests.snipped for space
MOO

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BBM above in blue, is my take on the events.

Turbododger said:

The media would have found this as newsbreaking as finding little Tori, IMO. An arrest after an intense manhunt for 6 weeks, you bet the media would have covered it if they had been tipped off. Which they were not, or we would have known sooner of the arrests.

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(Respectfully snipped)

We do not disagree on much of the previous theories, but I'd like to address this one.

I agree that the media was obviously not tipped off by LE before MTR was apprehended, or it would have been big news. They were told of the arrests at some time before the next morning when the media broke this very important story.

My point was that if bystanders saw MTR being taken into custody, they would not have known who he was or what he was arrested for. Not much to report to the press, and not much for them to print - YET. When they did print the story, the media was not advised where the arrest took place, or it would have been included in the reports.

IF there were witnesses to the apprehension, they wouldn't have known the identity of the suspect until after the media released the arrest information and pictures the next day. Then, they would have had to consider the location of the arrest newsworthy enough to call the media. But then what would they print? "A witness has come forward to say that MTR's arrest took place in (or outside) the Such-and-Such gym"? Then what? Everything else they knew had already been printed. It doesn't seem like sufficient information to print all by itself, nor might they consider it all that important where it took place. Then again, they may have asked this info from LE when they were originally told of the arrests and were told it was confidential.

MOO

antiquegirl said:

This is the sequence of events relating to MTR during the given time period as provided by Drivenchick (Mabel). Not sure if this belongs here or in the Facts & Links thread.

TIME LINE FOR MTR
MAY 15, 2009 – MAY 20, 2009​

• Friday, May 15th evening – MTR questioned by LE at his mother’s home
  
  
• Friday, May 15th around midnight – MTR arrives at Mabel’s home out of town, spends the night
  
  
• Saturday, May 16th all day – stays with Mabel until evening
  
  
• Saturday, May 16th early evening – MTR leaves Mabel’s to do a job
  
  
• Saturday, May 16th night – MTR presumably sleeps at his mother’s house (uncertain). texts exchanged with Mabel before bed
  
  
• Sunday, May 17th all day – MTR works all day, staying in touch with Mabel via texts and phone calls, may have dropped in at her place while she was not home
  
  
• Sunday, May 17th night – MTR presumably sleeps at his mother’s house (uncertain), texts exchanged with Mabel before bed
  
  
• Monday, May 18th - MTR works and runs errands, staying in touch with Mabel via texts and phone calls
  
  
• Monday, May 18th early evening – MTR returns to Mabel’s home, spends the night
  
  
• Tuesday, May 19th morning – Mabel goes to work and leaves MTR at her place
  
  
• Tuesday, May 19th during the day – Mabel is in touch with him until 1:00 p.m. via texts
  
  
• Tuesday, May 19th after 1:00 p.m. – MTR not returning Mabel’s calls or texts
  
  
• Tuesday, May 19th – MTR arrested at 5:00 p.m. as he’s leaving the gym
  
  
• Tuesday, May 19th evening – Mabel still unable to reach him. MTR’s mother now trying, too.
  
  
• Tuesday, May 19th , 11:00 p.m. – LE goes to MTR’s house with a search warrant, searches house, informs mother of her son’s arrest.
  
  
• Tuesday, May 19th around midnight – LE informs Tori’s family of the arrests
  
  
• Wednesday, May 20th a.m. – LE releases arrest information to the media

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I just read this article again about the abduction attempts in Elora and Cambridge. These occurred on Monday, May 18th and Tuesday, May 19th in the morning. MR was not around DC at those times and claimed to be at work. hmmmmmm

Here is the article: http://news.guelphmercury.com/article/485278 . There is no description of the man but the attempt on the Monday has the man driving a dark coloured minivan.

matou said:

I just read this article again about the abduction attempts in Elora and Cambridge. These occurred on Monday, May 18th and Tuesday, May 19th in the morning. MR was not around DC at those times and claimed to be at work. hmmmmmm

Here is the article: http://news.guelphmercury.com/article/485278 . There is no description of the man but the attempt on the Monday has the man driving a dark coloured minivan.

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Reading that article now, it seems like an awful coincidence that this happened in Mount Forest and that is where Tori was. I wonder what MTR's mother drives and if he was allowed to use her vehicle. Also wonder what DC drives and if she lent him her vehicle.

I snipped and post several quotes from site reports claiming "Tuesday night". As far as I am still concerned, the arrest happened then, not during the supper hour at a gym. JMO. I've also pondered the possibility that LE released TLM the day of the arrests, wearing a recording device, in hopes that MR would visit TLM (of course she would have initiated the visit), in order to discuss the crime, setting him up for a confession. This is the the possible evidence they have against him, a recorded confession. Plus the reports that they both were arrested Tuesday night, as she was released to cooperate with LE and try to get a confession of some sort from MR. JMO. This may also stand to reason as to why DC claims she had no contact with MR after 1pm. He was with TLM.
Snipped quotes:
And with Tuesday night's arrests of two Woodstonians, the heartbreaking story of Victoria "Tori" Stafford's abduction was brought to a painful conclusion after six weeks of uncertainty.

Michael Rafferty, 28, and his girlfriend, McClintic, 18, were arrested Tuesday night in connection with Tori's abduction and murder.

Michael Rafferty, 28, and McClintic, 18, his girlfriend, were arrested Tuesday night over Tori's abduction and murder.

Terri-Lynne McClintic, 18, was charged with abduction and helping Mr. Rafferty escape the area, court documents show. The man and woman were arrested on Tuesday evening and appeared in the Woodstock Provincial Court the next morning. Police said they do not expect to make any further arrests in the case.
Nursesleuth this may be the article you are speaking of. This one claims
The pair were arrested after midnight Wednesday at a rundown house in Woodstock — about 140 kilometres west of Toronto. http://www.canada.com/news/arrested+disappearance+girl/1612290/story.html

The abduction was sexually motivated, according to sources. Late on Tuesday night, police arrested Mr. Rafferty, 28, and Ms. McClintic, 18, both of Woodstock

matou said:

I just read this article again about the abduction attempts in Elora and Cambridge. These occurred on Monday, May 18th and Tuesday, May 19th in the morning. MR was not around DC at those times and claimed to be at work. hmmmmmm

Here is the article: http://news.guelphmercury.com/article/485278 . There is no description of the man but the attempt on the Monday has the man driving a dark coloured minivan.

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maxfactor said:

Reading that article now, it seems like an awful coincidence that this happened in Mount Forest and that is where Tori was. I wonder what MTR's mother drives and if he was allowed to use her vehicle. Also wonder what DC drives and if she lent him her vehicle.

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CuriousJorge said:

I snipped and post several quotes from site reports claiming "Tuesday night". As far as I am still concerned, the arrest happened then, not during the supper hour at a gym. JMO. I've also pondered the possibility that LE released TLM the day of the arrests, wearing a recording device, in hopes that MR would visit TLM (of course she would have initiated the visit), in order to discuss the crime, setting him up for a confession. This is the the possible evidence they have against him, a recorded confession. Plus the reports that they both were arrested Tuesday night, as she was released to cooperate with LE and try to get a confession of some sort from MR. JMO. This may also stand to reason as to why DC claims she had no contact with MR after 1pm. He was with TLM.
Snipped quotes:
And with Tuesday night's arrests of two Woodstonians, the heartbreaking story of Victoria "Tori" Stafford's abduction was brought to a painful conclusion after six weeks of uncertainty.

snipped

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BBM: Matou, Maxfactor and CuriousJorge, you bring up some very good points here.

Matou, I had not noticed the dates of those 2 attempted abductions before. Monday, May 18th and Tuesday, May 19th, the day of MTR's arrest.

While the 2 attempts may not be related to each other, I will comment on the attempt on Monday, May 18th. I have heard that Rafferty's mom has a mini-van. I don't know the colour.

Is it possible that Rafferty used his mother's mini-van on Monday, May 18th for one final attempt, as he was feeling the walls close in on him and his crime? Was he in a state of panic and things were out of his control, and therefore he tried to take control? Did he have an emotional meltdown during this time? I do wonder about her vehicle, and also others he may have had access to.

DC has told us she has a honda civic, also, I believe.

CJ brings up an interesting point about TLM being wired. Does ANYONE know if TLM was let out AT ALL at ANY POINT after April 12th? This would explain some things. I wonder if they talked at all, in person, prior to the arrests?

The catalyst is Friday, May 15th, 2009, IMO. It set the final ball rolling.

Turbododger said:

BBM: Matou, Maxfactor and CuriousJorge, you bring up some very good points here.

Matou, I had not noticed the dates of those 2 attempted abductions before. Monday, May 18th and Tuesday, May 19th, the day of MTR's arrest.

While the 2 attempts may not be related to each other, I will comment on the attempt on Monday, May 18th. I have heard that Rafferty's mom has a mini-van. I don't know the colour.

Is it possible that Rafferty used his mother's mini-van on Monday, May 18th for one final attempt, as he was feeling the walls close in on him and his crime? Was he in a state of panic and things were out of his control, and therefore he tried to take control? Did he have an emotional meltdown during this time? I do wonder about her vehicle, and also others he may have had access to.

DC has told us she has a honda civic, also, I believe.

CJ brings up an interesting point about TLM being wired. Does ANYONE know if TLM was let out AT ALL at ANY POINT after April 12th? This would explain some things. I wonder if they talked at all, in person, prior to the arrests?

The catalyst is Friday, May 15th, 2009, IMO. It set the final ball rolling.

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This is what I was thinking too. I think he might have lost it after the interview on the Friday and tried something extreme again.

The wire-tapping thing makes sense to me, if TLM was in for breach, she may have been let out to get MR to admit to things while wire-tapped and he would not have been suspicious of anything.

Turbododger said:

BBM: Matou, Maxfactor and CuriousJorge, you bring up some very good points here.

Matou, I had not noticed the dates of those 2 attempted abductions before. Monday, May 18th and Tuesday, May 19th, the day of MTR's arrest.

While the 2 attempts may not be related to each other, I will comment on the attempt on Monday, May 18th. I have heard that Rafferty's mom has a mini-van. I don't know the colour.

Is it possible that Rafferty used his mother's mini-van on Monday, May 18th for one final attempt, as he was feeling the walls close in on him and his crime? Was he in a state of panic and things were out of his control, and therefore he tried to take control? Did he have an emotional meltdown during this time? I do wonder about her vehicle, and also others he may have had access to.

DC has told us she has a honda civic, also, I believe.

CJ brings up an interesting point about TLM being wired. Does ANYONE know if TLM was let out AT ALL at ANY POINT after April 12th? This would explain some things. I wonder if they talked at all, in person, prior to the arrests?

The catalyst is Friday, May 15th, 2009, IMO. It set the final ball rolling.

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I've been wondering for quite a while if the minivan shown in the abduction video belongs to MTR's mother. I wondered if it was in the Caressant Care parking lot waiting for Tori and they met up at MTR's house. I wonder what time his mother got home from work that day. Just to be clear, I am in NO way implying that his mother had anything to do with this!!!

matou said:

I'm wondering now if the witness car story and the blue car mentioned in the LFP is the same car. LE released the video of the witness vehicle on May 4th and the LFP story was released on May 27th. In the print article: "Five minutes later, the blue car is seen heading north on the same street" (Fyfe Avenue). Wouldn't LFP retract the story if they were completely wrong on this?

Here is the link to the video of Constable Maitland appealing to the owner of the vehicle to come forward as a potential important witness.

YouTube - OCPS release video of witness vehicle

Here is the link to the LFP article: http://www.lfpress.ca/newsstand/News/2009/05/27/9592696.html

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This car is a witness ONLY car. This is not MR car. This car happens to belong to a neighbor of mine, and they did not know the le was looking for it. As it happened another neighbor saw this car in their driveway and reported it to le. The person who owns this car works at the nursing home in question and was given a hard time by the police. The person went through interrogation just like all the others in question of this case. Of course the person in question is innocent of any wrong doing.

maxfactor said:

I've been wondering for quite a while if the minivan shown in the abduction video belongs to MTR's mother. I wondered if it was in the Caressant Care parking lot waiting for Tori and they met up at MTR's house. I wonder what time his mother got home from work that day. Just to be clear, I am in NO way implying that his mother had anything to do with this!!!

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this vehichle does not belong to Mr.'s Mother. I can look out my window and see it in the neighbors driveway. (We live on the other side of town from Tennyson St.)

bleedingheart said:

This car is a witness ONLY car. This is not MR car. This car happens to belong to a neighbor of mine, and they did not know the le was looking for it. As it happened another neighbor saw this car in their driveway and reported it to le. The person who owns this car works at the nursing home in question and was given a hard time by the police. The person went through interrogation just like all the others in question of this case. Of course the person in question is innocent of any wrong doing.

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Thanks Bleedingheart, this means that the LFP reporter believes that the blue vehicle referenced in the article ("Five minutes later, the blue car is seen heading north on the same street") is MR's vehicle. I don't think the reporter is talking about the same vehicle as the vehicle belonging to your neighbour. Do you remember if this was cleared up before the arrests (May 19th) LE appealed to the owner of that vehicle to come forward on May 4th. The LFP press article is dated May 27th. TIA

bleedingheart said:

this vehichle does not belong to Mr.'s Mother. I can look out my window and see it in the neighbors driveway. (We live on the other side of town from Tennyson St.)

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Are you referring to the minivan that passes by Tori and the POI in the opposite direction or the station wagon (I think) that drives by in the same direction Tori is walking, which is the witness vehicle?

matou said:

Are you referring to the minivan that passes by Tori and the POI in the opposite direction or the station wagon (I think) that drives by in the same direction Tori is walking, which is the witness vehicle?

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the witness vehicle is the station wagon that the le was looking for

matou said:

I think someone posted that there is a coed Goodlife Fitness at the Quality Inn near the 401. It looks pretty isolated around there and maybe he was at that location because of the hotel and not necessary for the gym.

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yes the coed gym is at thee Quality Inn. It has the gym and a busy restaurant there too. I would think someone would have seen the arrest if it had happened here. But~~you never know

CuriousJorge said:

From all the reports I have read, they claim that MR and TLM were arrested Tuesday night. It does not matter to me what DC says MR told her. I do not trust what MR has to say at this point in time. JMO I am going on the numerous reports that are out there. Yes reporters have been known to make errors but with so many all making the same report, I tend to believe this as a fact. MR was arrested Tuesday night.The neighbour claims to have seen tons of cops and 4 or 5 police cruisers at MR's house Tuesday night @ around 11pm. Why would "that" many police be present to notify MR's mother of his arrest? That would be ridiculous. JMO again.

If this happened in the parking lot, outside the gym, in broad daylight, there would have been "some" witnesses to MR's arrest and would have come out in the media. I doubt very much that you would get a bunch of police and police cars at a scene and not attract any sort of attention from the public.
Just another report claiming arrests happened Tuesday "night". There are many more out there.
http://www.tillsonburgnews.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1577560

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I have a hard time believing he was arrested at the gym. The other places make more sense.

bleedingheart said:

the witness vehicle is the station wagon that the le was looking for

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Yes, as I was pretty sure and posted here:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4091743#post4091743"]MTR Discussions - Page 5 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]


Thanks for confirming, BH.

http://www.lfpress.ca/newsstand/News/Local/2009/05/20/9510571.html
As this link states, RE: TLM helps Mr escape. How and when was she able to do this?? Anyone know?? And where did he escape to??