Deceased/Not Found CA - Sierra LaMar, 15, Morgan Hill, 16 March 2012 #5 *A. Garcia-Torres guilty*

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nutkin said:
The best thing for a person to do who comes into contact with a potential abductor, is to NOT go with them. Your chances for survival decrease the farther you go with the attacker. The best thing to do is to make as much noise as possible to draw attention to yourself. Hit, kick, scream, bite, scratch, etc. An abductor does not want someone to look out their window or notice what is going on because then their chances of getting caught go up infinitely. Generally, they will just leave.
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I don't think anyone is disputing that fighting back is most likely the best option.

However, when reality strikes, the truth is that no one knows how a given individual will react. Many will freeze up or comply.

A lack of resistance does not equal a lack of training.
 
oceanblueeyes said:
Do we know if they kept the gate closed back then?

I dont know but the high pillars bother me. He could have casually been standing there making sure no one came by and when she walked by the pillars he could have grabbed her and pushed her in the vehicle.

It is so hard to say since this is like so many other cases where no one saw a thing that day.

IMO
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I agree!

If the perp had parked a vehicle a few feet back, s/he could have grabbed Sierra from behind, frog marched her to it, then forced her into the body of the vehicle or into the trunk.

I tend to think she went into the body of the vehicle because of the way her smartphone and bag were found.
 
GrainneDhu said:
Well... all I can say is different families, different times, maybe different parts of the country.

I went to high school about ten minutes after the dinosaurs went extinct (early 70s).

I was only bussed in middle school and it was about 15 miles away. My mother said if I missed the bus due to sleeping in, I'd have to walk. I don't know if she meant it because I never missed that bus!

My mind boggles when I try to imagine my mother covering me with an umbrella to keep me dry. I had raingear and I knew how to use it by the time I got to middle school.

The girl's locker room had these hot air hand dryers that were mounted at shoulder level, so if your hair got that wet, you could rotate the nozzle to dry it. I never bothered because my hair was thick and long enough to sit on; I would have had to spend an hour in the girl's locker room to get it dry and even if I had the time, I had better things to do.

Maybe it's just part of growing up in a rural state... a little rain or wind that doesn't include tornadoes just doesn't seem worth making any sort of alternative arrangement for.
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It all depends on what you're used to. My elementary school was 6 houses from where i lived and when i started kindergarten, my grandmother had a taxi take me to school. It was the same driver every day who became a friend of the family. When i reached 2nd grade my grandmother walked me herself and started the first security in the school where she sat at a desk near the front door and signed in visitors to the school in. If it started raining while i was in school, she'd bring me rain boots. If it was cold, i had to wear pants under my dress and take them off since we weren't allowed to wear pants to school. I grew up with that type of care and i'm not as bad as my grandmother was but i am concerned about my kids in the elements. I might also add that my oldest daughter who is 21 now never missed one single day of school in the 13 years she went.

As far as Sierra, she probably had a back up plan or she didn't go to school on the days she missed the bus.
 
curious girl said:
I get that feeling too.
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I got that feeling from watching her from the very first time. She acts like she doesn't know much about Sierra and her mannerisms are puzzling to me. I wish someone else would do the speaking for the family. There might be something helpful that the family could tell the public to aid in finding her.
 
Dee226 said:
I wouldn't want to take that walk. I'd be very nervous. The area looks so isolated.
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It's all in what you are used to, I think.

I feel intensely uncomfortable even in medium sized towns because there are too many people, some bad person could come along and I wouldn't notice because they'd be lost in the crowds. Crime rates are so high in cities, just knowing that makes me nervous.

I doubt Sierra was afraid of the walk to the bus stop. For one thing, at 15, most teens think they are immortal. Danger is something that happens to someone who is not them.
 
You know I really think Marlene really has no idea yet what really is on the Pc yet. I can't imagine what her reaction will be when she is told. And you know the eye shifting just might be a case of nerves plus being asked about knowledge of weed usage and Sierra tweets and such. It must have been uncomfortable to say the least.
 
oceanblueeyes said:
I dont think Sierra was afraid to go to the bus stop by herself. It is a very nice neighborhood. I wouldnt be scared to go to the bus stop if I lived in that neighborhood.

IMO
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There's an abandoned farm on our street and when i was Sierra's age i sometimes had to walk by myself from a friend's house and the worst part was walking along that farm. Everything is pretty much wooded here. You're braver than i am.
 
JDB said:
You know I really think Marlene really has no idea yet what really is on the Pc yet. I can't imagine what her reaction will be when she is told. And you know the eye shifting just might be a case of nerves plus being asked about knowledge of weed usage and Sierra tweets and such. It must have been uncomfortable to say the least.
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Or the producers may have stationed someone supportive off to that side.

Or she may be constantly checking with someone on that side to get reassurance that she's doing things correctly.
 
GrainneDhu said:
I don't think anyone is disputing that fighting back is most likely the best option.

However, when reality strikes, the truth is that no one knows how a given individual will react. Many will freeze up or comply.

A lack of resistance does not equal a lack of training.
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Dollars to donuts, the majority of people have never been taught. It is not a one time conversation. It is continual. For instance, remember the ad for what to do if caught on fire. I can still see the guy rolling on the ground to put out the flames. This is NOT a natural instinct. It is a visual and was imprinted on our brains.

When a patient walked up to me "On fire", the first thing I thought of was to roll him on the ground. BUT how in the world would I do that. What did I do? I froze for a time. It takes the brain seconds to minutes to figure out what is going on. I then grabbed a water pitcher...certainly couldn't touch him. All my brain knew what to do when on fire is roll on the ground (what I was taught repeatedly).

Now, if the person HAS had the idea of what to do in a given situation, it becomes automatic. The brain imprints it, especially if it is visual.

I can tell you that I never met a child that knew what to do in a stranger abduction. That tells me that it was never once discussed (though once isn't good enough). I saw a child out on a corner selling candy to people as they drive by. I had to stop and give a severe talking to that one. Our children are so precious. The mother never knew what she was doing and frankly I have to wonder if she would be worried. It is a different world.
 
GrainneDhu said:
Or the producers may have stationed someone supportive off to that side.

Or she may be constantly checking with someone on that side to get reassurance that she's doing things correctly.
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True I was counter pointing to another post that she was either hiding something or lying.
 
jackornaught said:
I don't think the person that took her was a complete stranger at all. I think it was someone that she had at least some familiarity with. I could be a guy that works at her school... the person at that is at the coffee shop everyday, a casual aquaintance...

At some point very early in meeting him, she may have seen him as a casual encounter, but he saw her as much more. From that point on the game started for him. He learned everything about her that he could, her routines, friends, family, details the average person wouldn't care to know.

My point is: He picked the perfect point to strike. Bus stop, bad idea, too many possible eyes. Along the road, not so good either, people tend to be on-guard when walking down the street. The best time is when someone feels safe, right on their own property, while their guard is down. Plus, if a neighbor had seen her getting into a car, the perp wouldn't have been under much scrutiny. It's not that un-usual to see a teen ager getting into a car near her driveway before school. Seeing a teenager picked up in a car from a bus stop, or walking down the street, is a little suspicious.

Finally, he may be someone she views as being kind, and possibly even pretty good looking. Some sociopaths are incredibly persuasive, and make themselves seem very innocent, and kind.

To find him, other similiar cases need to be looked at too.

Now, I have to add this, cuz I feel horrible for thinking the worst.

I hope she comes home. Please just have run away, I want to be wrong.
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I feel pretty much as you do, that she knew this person well enough to get into a car, but not so much that she texted him or called him as there was no reason to do that. So what reason would a person have to be in front of her home and offering a ride to her???? This sets off bells for me. There were not that many neighbors, correct? So once again, why is he there offering a ride?
 
I can't believe her mother would not know by now about her online presence...LE surely would have questioned her about what she might know about it?
 
oceanblueeyes said:
Exactly, the abductor does not want to call attention to him/herself.

I wish every person would adhere to this rule but tragically they dont.

IMO
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I am reading a text book on criminal profiling and after I read what I did, I will die on the spot before I go anywhere, I swear to God. What happens to some of these people are beyond anything I could ever image. I read a few pages, take a break and then go back, that is all I can manage some days.
 
Everyone has been so focused on the Morgan Hill area since this is where she was last seen. I think the focus should shift to FREMONT, where she moved from. And WHY did she move? That's what I think is the critical question. No popular teenager (such as a cheerleader) would want to move from their high school. What happened there? That's the key to this case I believe.
 
I'm curious as to why LE is saying she left the house with somebody she knew. They have good reason to say this...imo.
 
Bern said:
I am reading a text book on criminal profiling and after I read what I did, I will die on the spot before I go anywhere, I swear to God. What happens to some of these people are beyond anything I could ever image. I read a few pages, take a break and then go back, that is all I can manage some days.
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Good Girl, Bern!

Try working with the idiots (the criminally insane). You can become a paranoid Loon after reading a few hundred files.
 
Frogzilla said:
The definition of an abduction is the act of taking someone away by force. The term kidnapping is similar, except kidnapping also assumes intent, such as a ransom. I know this isn't what you were trying to say, but your statement on it's own cannot be possible. The rephrase would be very few missing females are taken by force, or abducted, and that statement is very accurate, when weighing it against statistics. Of the woman who are abducted, 100% of them were taken by force.
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Can force also be psychological manipulation? It is very easy to utilize certain techniques to get a victim to go with you, even if they don't want to or know they shouldn't.
 
oceanblueeyes said:
Do we know if they kept the gate closed back then?

I dont know but the high pillars bother me. He could have casually been standing there making sure no one came by and when she walked by the pillars he could have grabbed her and pushed her in the vehicle.

It is so hard to say since this is like so many other cases where no one saw a thing that day.

IMO
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IDK,OBE, but that gate looks like it could be electronic ? Thing is, can we guesstimate where she would have been with regard to her morning routine, at 7:11, the time of her last text ? If it took her 15 minutes,give or take,to walk to the bus stop, and the bus left at, what,around 7 :28 or so ? Would that put her outside the gate, in the street when she last texted ? Or still walking down the driveway ?

And also, the female neighbor who said she used to see Sierra walking to the bus at around 7 :24 or so, but she didn't see her that morning ? The way this was discussed in the news made it sound like the neighbor didn't see anything,or anyone going by at around 7:24ish that morning... Could this mean that Sierra was not taken into a vehicle at that time at all ? Was she possibly taken into a house ? Or even into her own house ? Wish we knew... MOO
 
rosesfromangels said:
Everyone has been so focused on the Morgan Hill area since this is where she was last seen. I think the focus should shift to FREMONT, where she moved from. And WHY did she move? That's what I think is the critical question. No popular teenager (such as a cheerleader) would want to move from their high school. What happened there? That's the key to this case I believe.
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Exactly! Why was she taken away from Fremont when her parent/s still worked in Fremont. They could have dropped her off at her Fremont High School each day. It makes no sense. We need more information on this aspect of the case.

So far, I have learned absolutely nothing from the mother who is close to her daughter, yet the mother is not even around 12 of her waking hours. All I keep hearing is how close they are. Well then tell me why Sierra could not attend school in Fremont with her friends.

Was it a family decision to remove her for her own safety? Was she in with a bad crowd? Or is there something else going on here?
 
oceanblueeyes said:
Poor Marlene, she is probably inwardly very embarassed by Sierra's on line chatter. I know as a mother, I certainly would be.

IMO
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I totally agree about the embarrassment part. On these high profile cases we always see the media and public digging up something that would be embarrassing to the family. I find it quite cruel to do to the family unless it is used to serve a useful purpose in the investigation. If it continues to just be gossiped about after that it's wrong.

Kids can have online accounts that parents don't know about. It is so easy to do. Parents can hover over them and spend all day long trying to protect them but bad things can and do still happen. I doubt with all the hours her mother worked that she spent all her free time digging back through Sierra's Facebook, twitter and texts reading things. Yes, some parents might do this (usually if they have a lot of time on their hands) but is it really psychologically healthy? IMO no! The best thing a parent can do is have open communication and teach their children to be safe and then hope that as teenagers they make good choices. A teen will find a way around restrictions that are imposed on them if they want to. Seriously, how far can parents go with this? I feel like the next thing I am going to read is my daughter is 40 and I still walk around holding her hand everywhere she goes!

Sierra's mother is on national television, her daughter is missing and she knows she most likely is dead and LE has instructed her not to say to much so she has to think about her answers. This mother is in shock and despair, let's please not judge the fact that she is nervous. She may be looking to the side because she doesn't know how or what she can say and is trying to get feedback from someone else.

JMO
 
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