PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #6

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RTC said:
Well you can say there is no evidence of "anything". Just alot of assumptions.
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I think you can say that the destruction of the drive does not specifically point to walkaway or suicide and that even if it can be shown RFG tossed the drive, it would not rule out murder.
 
cloudbuster05 said:
I don't think Lara's relationship with her father was minimal. After all he shared his account with her. Lara also did his taxes ect.
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Myself and my father shared an account with my aunt for years, and she had no idea what transactions were conducted. She was on the account simply in case we were both killed.

I have heard on no reports that she, living 2000 miles away, ever did his taxes, until RFG disappeared.

I also don't think Ray would ditch his daughter and not even be there to walk her down the aisle to marriage. Thats a real father event. He was there and took care of her during her ski accident. He visited her when she lived in california ect. The relatioship was one of love between a father and daughter. You have not indicated a motive why Ray would leave his daughter with a legacy of ditching her from his life?
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He did provide for her, rather substantially. I think that against any emotional issue.

I know you will say motive needs no proving but IMO walk away motive needs a reason which there is none. Do you think Ray suddenly got up on 4-15-2005 and decided he hated his daughter, his livein his newphews ect and replaced them with a life of drama knowing he would have to stay hidden?
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I don't think leaving $100,000+ in the bank and $300,000 in a pension for LG would indicate "hate," assuming that he did walk away.
 
J. J. in Phila said:
Myself and my father shared an account with my aunt for years, and she had no idea what transactions were conducted. She was on the account simply in case we were both killed.

I have heard on no reports that she, living 2000 miles away, ever did his taxes, until RFG disappeared.



He did provide for her, rather substantially. I think that against any emotional issue.



I don't think leaving $100,000+ in the bank and $300,000 in a pension for LG would indicate "hate," assuming that he did walk away.
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No your right that don't indicate hate, but leaving her with thinking he is dead
is not anything short of the most cruelest, vindictive legacy I ever heard of.
I don't see Ray as that type of person, he certainly was not irresponsible and never handled things in that capacity.
I have seen fathers leave their children and family but was more because of some type of addiction. Their life was unstable in some capacity, meaning loss of finances. We don't have a person who profiles like that in this case.
 
cloudbuster05 said:
No your right that don't indicate hate, but leaving her with thinking he is dead
is not anything short of the most cruelest, vindictive legacy I ever heard of.
I don't see Ray as that type of person, he certainly was not irresponsible and never handled things in that capacity.
I have seen fathers leave their children and family but was more because of some type of addiction. Their life was unstable in some capacity, meaning loss of finances. We don't have a person who profiles like that in this case.
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No, it would a legacy of protecting his daughter.

If RFG walked away, he has two choices:

1. Tell his daughter, and put her in the position where either she admits it, or lies to the police and commits perjury when she has him declared dead.

2. Have her tell, and be unable to claim his pension.

A vindictive, evil, cad of a father would force his daughter to make that choice. A father who wanted to protect his daughter would spare her that choice.
 
J. J. in Phila said:
No, it would a legacy of protecting his daughter.

If RFG walked away, he has two choices:

1. Tell his daughter, and put her in the position where either she admits it, or lies to the police and commits perjury when she has him declared dead.

2. Have her tell, and be unable to claim his pension.

A vindictive, evil, cad of a father would force his daughter to make that choice. A father who wanted to protect his daughter would spare her that choice.
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Protecting her from what?
 
What would be the motive for someone to murder him? Yes, he was a DA and all of that.....but he was getting ready to step down and retire from all of that.

3 Things To Know:
1. Motive
2. Opportunity
3. Means/Weapon
 
RTC said:
Protecting her from what?
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Going into court and committing perjury, if he walked away. At some point, to claim RFG's estate (and retirement), LG will have to petition the court to declare him dead (unless there is other evidence). She will have to say, "I have not heard from him since 4/14/05."

So long as that statement is true (and I believe it is), she obviously hasn't perjured herself. If that statement were false he choices would be:

1. Not have him declared dead, and not inherit his estate.

2. Perjure herself and possibly get caught.
 
shefner said:
What would be the motive for someone to murder him? Yes, he was a DA and all of that.....but he was getting ready to step down and retire from all of that.

3 Things To Know:
1. Motive
2. Opportunity
3. Means/Weapon
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"... motive is something we never have to prove." I could think of several reasons why someone could want to kill him.

Means could be several. It might rule out a whole bunch of people, but right now it is secondary.

Opportunity is the key. Who would be in Lewisburg with RFG? Who would know that he was there on 4/15/05?
 
J. J. in Phila said:
No, it would a legacy of protecting his daughter.

If RFG walked away, he has two choices:

1. Tell his daughter, and put her in the position where either she admits it, or lies to the police and commits perjury when she has him declared dead.

2. Have her tell, and be unable to claim his pension.

A vindictive, evil, cad of a father would force his daughter to make that choice. A father who wanted to protect his daughter would spare her that choice.
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JJ why put her in any position at all? Why not just resign, skip all the drama which he wasn't into, and say IM LEAVING PERIOD. What your saying is not fitting the character of who Ray was and how he handled things. He goes from responsible and stable to a deceitful lying individual who just loves to give his whole pension away lol. Come on. Give me a better reason. TIA
 
J. J. in Phila said:
"... motive is something we never have to prove." I could think of several reasons why someone could want to kill him.

Means could be several. It might rule out a whole bunch of people, but right now it is secondary.

Opportunity is the key. Who would be in Lewisburg with RFG? Who would know that he was there on 4/15/05?
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LMW would know. Two antique dealers saw the same description of the woman and a month apart, she was one that was with him. Find out who she is and I don't understand why the sketch artist wasn't made available.
 
Okay we have Ray walking away because.... we don't have to prove why.
We have a man who worked all his life just to let his daughter have it because...
we don't need a reason why come.
We can't use the credit cards because we would get caught.... so what now?
Okay yep he could go live homeless by the beach and eat snails and drink ocean water, because..... no reason. Just because.
We decide we can't ever speak with the daughter because.... just because.
We walked off from Patty without giving any reason why.... just because.
We walked out as a public servant from the folks of Centre County..... just because.
We don't care that our brother disappeared in May 96 and what that did to the nephews, we will put them through it once again...... just because.
Yep no motive needed its all just because.
 
So basically he is protecting his daughter from himself, if he is a walk away. He would be the one causing all the grief for her.



I think someone really needs to follow the money trail in this case. His bank records and credit cards probably hold some key info. not saying that there should be alot more money just saying understanding his habits could unearth some clues.

I lean towards foul play, I see no reason for him to walk. He was to close to achieving his dreams, why leave before they could be realized?

Unless of course he is a secret agent for the KGB!
 
I think sometimes we think we know someone, but we actually don't. I always pegged Mr. Gricar for a suicide -- but -- I think his body would have been found by now. My second theory was that he may have met someone online who he thought he could trust -- then met with foul play. The walk away theory always seemed the most unlikely -- til I got to thinking about it. We wouldn't necessarily be able to discern a motive for Mr. Gricar if he chose to get away from it all. I just did a search on "how to disappear" and "why do people disappear," etc. Lots to think about. Was Mr. G. an open book? Could we really know everything that was going on in his mind? Who knows -- remember that song, "Escape?" Maybe he was sick of the "same old dull routine." Maybe he could see his "golden years" over the horizon and decided he wanted to take one last shot at something different. He is smart, handsome, apparently charming -- he could make a life for himself anywhere. Maybe he felt like the guy in "Ground Hog Day" -- or, maybe his post retirement plan just wasn't what he really wanted. Do people harbor fantasies - about other people, jobs, places -- do they keep secrets that they tell no one? If they do, then you could not necessarily fathom their motive for one day just walking out that door and never looking back
 
Wouldnt the fantasy of starting a new life be interrupted by POVERTY?? Most people that disappear RUN. They have real problems like bad marriages, heavy debt, drug issues. If he was looking for the perfect life, I think he would have at least taken some cash. I cant get my head around a walk away.
 
cloudbuster05 said:
JJ why put her in any position at all? Why not just resign, skip all the drama which he wasn't into, and say IM LEAVING PERIOD. What your saying is not fitting the character of who Ray was and how he handled things. He goes from responsible and stable to a deceitful lying individual who just loves to give his whole pension away lol. Come on. Give me a better reason. TIA
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Again we don't have to prove motive.

Here are a couple:

1. He was worried about someone with a grudge coming after him years from now. Disappearing keeps that hypothetical person from tracking him.

2. RFG indicated he put the Mini in PEF's name in case he was sued. There was a something we don't know about that could have caused him to be sued (probably in his personal life). He felt that if he left, he couldn't be sued.

There are a number of others, but none of them could be proved.
 
RTC said:
So basically he is protecting his daughter from himself, if he is a walk away. He would be the one causing all the grief for her.
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I can think $400,000+ reasons why he'd think it could be worth it,.


I think someone really needs to follow the money trail in this case. His bank records and credit cards probably hold some key info. not saying that there should be alot more money just saying understanding his habits could unearth some clues.

I lean towards foul play, I see no reason for him to walk. He was to close to achieving his dreams, why leave before they could be realized?

Unless of course he is a secret agent for the KGB!
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His dream was traveling and no longer practicing law, at least according to what he said. If he walked, he's living that dream.
 
ThePhantom said:
Who knows -- remember that song, "Escape?" Maybe he was sick of the "same old dull routine." Maybe he could see his "golden years" over the horizon and decided he wanted to take one last shot at something different. He is smart, handsome, apparently charming -- he could make a life for himself anywhere. Maybe he felt like the guy in "Ground Hog Day" -- or, maybe his post retirement plan just wasn't what he really wanted. Do people harbor fantasies - about other people, jobs, places -- do they keep secrets that they tell no one? If they do, then you could not necessarily fathom their motive for one day just walking out that door and never looking back
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In terms of "charming," I have never heard anyone who knew him referring to him like that.

The words I have heard are, "reserved," "aloof," "standoffish," and "a hard guy to know." The last comment was from the then president judge. He lived in Centre County for almost 30 years and had two close friends (excluding wives and girlfriends).

That is part of the problem; an outsider can't get into his mind.
 
RTC said:
Wouldnt the fantasy of starting a new life be interrupted by POVERTY?? Most people that disappear RUN. They have real problems like bad marriages, heavy debt, drug issues. If he was looking for the perfect life, I think he would have at least taken some cash. I cant get my head around a walk away.
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There is the question of assets, that keeps on coming up. Based on his income, and expenses, he should have higher assets. Since 1998, he was grossing in excess of $100,000 per year and his ex-wife worked at least part time.
 
J. J. in Phila said:
I can think $400,000+ reasons why he'd think it could be worth it,.




His dream was traveling and no longer practicing law, at least according to what he said. If he walked, he's living that dream.
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Living his dream? And when the reality sets in he has to go back to work for funds. Well that would interrupt his travels. Ready to retire but yet he doesn't claim his pension and decides he is going back to work with a fake SSI number hmmmmm. I really have a hard time seeing a stable man who is 8 months from retiring, on the run from everyone and life and lets not forget his pension. I guess Ray is afraid of his pension, his savings, the folks he put away, his daughter, his nephews, the Centre Countians, Patty. Also how old is Ray now? I guess he is afraid of his gov health insurance too. I do hope that man stays in excellent health and goodness I hope he never needs a surgery.:banghead:
 
J. J. in Phila said:
There is the question of assets, that keeps on coming up. Based on his income, and expenses, he should have higher assets. Since 1998, he was grossing in excess of $100,000 per year and his ex-wife worked at least part time.
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He also collected antiques and that can quickly add up. Funny thing is he never took any of those items.
 
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