2009.10.09 Duct Tape Photos From Remains Released

wenwe4 said:

I spewed my caffeinated beverage at the "bobbit" reference (ty for the belly laugh!)

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YES! I forgot about about that one! :floorlaugh:

gotta love a guy with a brain AND a great sense of humor!

sumbunny said:

I can also see Casey using latex surgical gloves to handle a deceased Caylee. Is duct tape difficult to handle using latex gloves?

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Just jumping in here to state emphatically Y E S !!!!!! :woohoo:
And now for the wordy explanation! (ah, come on, you all knew I'd have to explain my simple answer with facts!)!:innocent:
As many know, I practically have lived my life in latex (get those minds out of the gutter!!!!) well, actually, now it's nitrile! and finally after more than a few vendors, have a satisfactory fitting style!

:twocents: A little bit about personal protective equipment (PPE, just to be in the lingo!): they can be vinyl (cheapest), latex, & nitrile; more than likely ALL of these might be available via a nursing home care agency provider's "stash" in his/her car trunk or left over at the house.
Problems with PPEs: FIT!!! vinyl: stinks as it's almost always "sloppy" too big, think "lunch lady PLASTIC GLOVES", these suckers would definitely get in the way of the tape, fall off, jam up the works! Latex: again unless as perfect fit, think a condom that's "too big" at the tip or too small and ripping, then the powder inside "puffing" into her face (HAHAHA~)& perhaps an allergic reaction?(YEAH!), oh yeah, these things R I P at the slightest stress, not a good choice! Nitrile: Same verse, F I T and strength, and the lovely powder (AHCHOO!), plus the added problem, Casey's NAILS poking thru! (it's hard to be a murdering DIVA!). :banghead:

Just picture the frustration of Casey attempting to manage to keep PPEs on and manipulate sticky tape, tear it, plaster it on her child and ASSUME that she's the genius forensic specialist who hasn't left any evidence!

:snooty:NOPE, her R A G E was in control, not rational thought processes.:snooty:

PS: FYI latents CAN be raised from the INSIDE of the gloves, just thought you all might want to be warned! :truce:

wenwe4 said:

I spewed my caffeinated beverage at the "bobbit" reference (ty for the belly laugh!)

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I was sitting at my desk reading when I took a big swig of coffee, saw his post on the Blowtorch as well as the Bobbit reference. Yep, coffee everywhere. I LOVE his humor. :blushing:

JWG said:

Bond gave AZlawyer and I a little experiment over the weekend. :book: He must have thought we were bored or at least did not have anything better to do. Like a dutiful rube, I volunteered. :wave:

Here is his request:

I skipped blowtorch because my plumber's sweat torch was out of liquid propane. I also skipped pocket knife because, believe it or not, I do not own one. But I did do numbers 1 - 4.

Even though it is the most popular brand of tape in the world, I do not own Henkel tape. My roll was made by Intertape. In fact, it was manufactured in Florida (unless they secretly manufacture it in China and purposefully mislabel their rolls :deal. Here is a picture of my tape:

View attachment 9043

The tape is not industrial grade, nor is it fire resistant. But it seems pretty heavy duty. I've used it to tape the seat on my exercise bike and it has held up well.

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*snipping to protect keyboards everywhere *

Filing this one under the heading, "Be careful what you ask for..."

First (and seriously), big thank you, JWG, for taking the time to (a) do the work, and (b) organize & share it w/ the rest of us in a way that is easy to follow. We're friends here...its an immensely weighty subject...yet, we all hafta tackle it for our own reasons. I get the sense that reading your posts brings us all a little closer together...and a little closer to the truth for Caylee's sake. :grouphug:

...alright, 'nuff of that touchy-feely stuff


Now...lemme see :waitasec:...so many pithy remarks...so little space & time

After I read your post I immediately jotted down a To-Do List. Thought I'd share it here. And since I don't wanna fill up the thread w/ a buncha follow-ons... I'd encourage any omissions find their way to your visitor's messages :cool2:

Bond's To-Do List for JWG:
In no particular order:

• Contact JWG and cancel Phase II of the homework..."Replication of cadaver application and cycling of environmental conditions"
• Contact local LE in case JWG ignores instructions to cancel the assignment and begins rounding up cadavers :yow:
• Make "Plan C" arrangements w/ Dr. Vass to contact JWG and assure him, "One Body Farm is enough". :snooty:
• Schedule Intervention discussion w/ Mrs. JWG and the fam...its overdue
• Obtain search warrant for exercise bike seat in the event all of the above items fail :cop:
• Extend invitation to this Thursday's local DTA (Duct Tapers Anonymous) meeting :hand:
• Contact AZLawyer to see if (a) she's recovered herself, and, if so, (b) she'll be JWG's sponsor
• Arrange counseling re: do-it-yourself sterilization
• Give JWG passing grade despite his ignoring the blowtorch segment and entirely omitting the, "make sure you cut it like a g-uh-rl" instruction
• Give AZLawyer extra credit for being smart enough to know there was NO way JWG could resist this lil' exercise so she didn't hafta do it herself :highfive:

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BJB, You had me at the "Bueller" (sic?) reference in your title! I now must purchase a rain slicker for my laptop . . . . as it doesn't run on caffeine as well as yours truly. Good to know you have arranged an "intervention" for JWG and family . . . but there are many of us "groupies" who probably could benefit as well. I say we all "skype" in! Too funny! Just a note . . . . could you guys warn us to put down the "piddle pads" when you are going to do this? (Really, cuz I peed a little). Ok, just way too much wet stuff going on here!

Bond's To-Do List for JWG:
In no particular order:
Contact JWG and cancel Phase II of the homework..."Replication of cadaver application and cycling of environmental conditions"
Contact local LE in case JWG ignores instructions to cancel the assignment and begins rounding up cadavers
Make "Plan C" arrangements w/ Dr. Vass to contact JWG and assure him, "One Body Farm is enough".
Schedule Intervention discussion w/ Mrs. JWG and the fam...its overdue
Obtain search warrant for exercise bike seat in the event all of the above items fail
Extend invitation to this Thursday's local DTA (Duct Tapers Anonymous) meeting
Contact AZLawyer to see if (a) she's recovered herself, and, if so, (b) she'll be JWG's sponsor
Arrange counseling re: do-it-yourself sterilization
Give JWG passing grade despite his ignoring the blowtorch segment and entirely omitting the, "make sure you cut it like a g-uh-rl" instruction
Give AZLawyer extra credit for being smart enough to know there was NO way JWG could resist this lil' exercise so she didn't hafta do it herself

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Well, I just thought I'd wait a day or two and see if JWG happened to "break" before I did. :angel:

And I have NOT recovered sufficiently to sponsor anyone. I am attempting to determine whether my husband will be understanding or disturbed if I suggest that we spend part of this year's "Halloween Decoration Money" (yes, it is a separate category in our budget) on the $200 model skull of a 2 to 3-year-old child that I linked earlier in one of these threads. He is not an easily disturbed man, but this could do it...:waitasec:

BondJamesBond said:

*snipping to protect keyboards everywhere *

Filing this one under the heading, "Be careful what you ask for..."

First (and seriously), big thank you, JWG, for taking the time to (a) do the work, and (b) organize & share it w/ the rest of us in a way that is easy to follow. We're friends here...its an immensely weighty subject...yet, we all hafta tackle it for our own reasons. I get the sense that reading your posts brings us all a little closer together...and a little closer to the truth for Caylee's sake. :grouphug:

...alright, 'nuff of that touchy-feely stuff


Now...lemme see :waitasec:...so many pithy remarks...so little space & time

After I read your post I immediately jotted down a To-Do List. Thought I'd share it here. And since I don't wanna fill up the thread w/ a buncha follow-ons... I'd encourage any omissions find their way to your visitor's messages :cool2:

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This is THE funniest thing I have ever read on this board!!! The funniest! BJB, you had me on the FLOOR laughing!
PS. Has JWG promised to cease and desist with step 2 of the experiment? I ask this because JWG isn't exactly the kind of poster who colours between the lines.....

logicalgirl said:

This is THE funniest thing I have ever read on this board!!! The funniest! BJB, you had me on the FLOOR laughing!
PS. Has JWG promised to cease and desist with step 2 of the experiment? I ask this because JWG isn't exactly the kind of poster who colours between the lines.....

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Glad you enjoyed it, logicalgirl. I've noticed both JWG & AZLawyer have a propensity to experiment w/ duct tape. It was unfair of me to taunt them so. :whistle:

Originally Posted by sumbunny
I can also see Casey using latex surgical gloves to handle a deceased Caylee. Is duct tape difficult to handle using latex gloves?

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I'm thinking she may have used the canvas type garden gloves...that will not stick to duct tape as a friend of mine tried this method and claims it wasn't clumsy at all to use those gloves...

http://www.unitedglove.com/canvas.htm
^^^^
scroll down to Cotton Canvas Gloves..

OT-

I would like to see an experiment duplicating the trash found in Casey's trunk to see if an awful odor will result... I would volunteer but I do not live in Florida so the temperature would be off. Here is the list of trash items found in Casey's trunk:

http://www.wftv.com/pdf/20321119/detail.html

http://www.wftv.com/news/20316176/detail.html

All items were empty and the only items that might present an odor were the velveeta wrappers, salami wrapper, and Stouffer's Skillet Dinner. All the rest were empty soda cans.

To wrap this post back on topic, I want to thank JWG for his time and effort in conducting this informative experiment.

Harmony2 said:

OT-

I would like to see an experiment duplicating the trash found in Casey's trunk to see if an awful odor will result... I would volunteer but I do not live in Florida so the temperature would be off. Here is the list of trash items found in Casey's trunk:

http://www.wftv.com/pdf/20321119/detail.html

http://www.wftv.com/news/20316176/detail.html

All items were empty and the only items that might present an odor were the velveeta wrappers, salami wrapper, and Stouffer's Skillet Dinner. All the rest were empty soda cans.

To wrap this post back on topic, I want to thank JWG for his time and effort in conducting this informative experiment.

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I believe the juice and soda cans will produce odor as well. IMO

(Psssst. I'm typing this quietly so maybe no one else will hear. This is the duct tape thread.)

What was that? I dint hear anything. Did you? Nah.

Has Q62 ever been shown in its as-found state?

IOW...handwritten page 9629 shows Q63 & Q64 together as-found. And, IIRC, media reports (and perhaps forensic reports :waitasec were indicating that the tape was 3-layers.

I'm too wiped out to go through all of these again tonight: http://media.myfoxorlando.com/photo...otosofducttapeclothingshovel/indexGallery.htm

Anyone else know...or game to go through these... for Q62 in something other than the final, clean FBI bag? TIA!

what exactly is rare about this tape? I looked briefly, but can not find an answer to my question...

6stringer said:

what exactly is rare about this tape? I looked briefly, but can not find an answer to my question...

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Might want to start here:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88736&highlight=tape

to find the other threads:
search:
this forum;advanced;titles only;keyword tape.

BondJamesBond said:

Has Q62 ever been shown in its as-found state?

IOW...handwritten page 9629 shows Q63 & Q64 together as-found. And, IIRC, media reports (and perhaps forensic reports :waitasec were indicating that the tape was 3-layers.

I'm too wiped out to go through all of these again tonight: http://media.myfoxorlando.com/photo...otosofducttapeclothingshovel/indexGallery.htm

Anyone else know...or game to go through these... for Q62 in something other than the final, clean FBI bag? TIA!

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Two here on pgs. 605 & 606.

http://www.wftv.com/pdf/21252257/detail.html

This will be a 2-part post. The 1st part will explain the process of piecing together the Henkel duct tape segments in the exact sequence that they came off of the roll. The goal is to determine if the sequence will provide insight into their use.

Special thanks to AZLawyer, Muzikman, JWG and Valhall as they’ve entertained my requests for information along the way without much of an explanation why.

The Henkel duct tape discovered on Suburban Drive can be summarized to include the following:



This particular Henkel duct tape product includes a logo and text marking, alternating to the left & right of center along the length of the non-adhesive side of the backing.

Henkel logo pattern courtesy of our own FairNBalanced:

Using the Henkel logo marking pattern I determined the sequence that the segments of tape came from the roll... much like putting together a jigsaw puzzle. When placed in the proper order each tape segment MUST align with BOTH the tear position AND the logo marking of the roll. This alignment process can also suggest if tape segments are missing from within a series if suitable matches for each tear are not found.

From the manufacturer’s specs cited earlier in the thread I used a tape width of 1.88”. With this measurement I maintained the aspect ratio of each tape segment’s image and scaled it to its actual size. Fortunately, most of the tape segment images are reasonably close to being flat and straight. FWIW, I checked the lengths of the scaled tape segments against the lengths in the forensics reports. All were reasonably close, with only the scaled Q62 image being slightly longer (9.3&#8221.

Using a flat image of Henkel tape provided by FairNBalanced, and the known 1.88” width, I determined the repeat distance of the logo marking and replicated the text and the relative positions of each of the logo elements. I combined these to create a “virtual duct tape stencil” that I then overlaid on each tape segment. FairNBalanced’s image was remarkably close to the repeat pattern I was able to see in the actual Q-series tape segments.

The “virtual duct tape stencil” also made it easy to see where the logo marking had degraded or was difficult to view due to the reflection on the plastic sample bags in which they were placed. In all tape segments, however, there was at least one, and in some cases multiple, logo & print marking(s) with which the “virtual” stencil could be confirmed and aligned. :thumb:

How logo alignment is done:

Assumptions:


Lining up for matches:
Here’s and example of lining up two tape segment to determine which is the better fit using the logo pattern. Note that end matches can be eliminated easily when the logo appears out of synch with the stencil (left to right) OR out of synch with the lengthwise position of the logo.


I repeated this alignment test for all of the tape segments to determine if and how they fit.

After applying all possible combinations, the following best describes the sequence of taping that occurred:

1) Q64 applied first
2) Q100 applied second but NOT over Q64
3) Q63 applied third over Q64 at an angle
4) Q62 applied last over Q63​

Only one end of Q100 among all of all the tape segments was significantly deteriorated enough to make the matching questionable. Fortunately, since there were excellent matches with all of the other tears, and since we also know that Q63 was attached on top of Q64, (the piece that came before Q100) it is reasonable to conclude that Q100 was applied after Q64 and before Q63, but, wasn’t sufficiently caught between them.

Q64 Matches Q100:

Q100 Matches Q63:

Q63 Matches Q62:

I used the same process on the piece of tape from the gas can, Q66, and determined that it was not a fit EITHER BEFORE Q64 or AFTER Q62. This doesn’t mean that Q66 didn’t come from the same roll or batch, only that it wasn’t taken from the roll immediately before Q64 or immediately after Q62. It is worth noting that the gas can tape analysis is not as straight forward as those found with the remains due to one of the images I have being on a curved surface, and the other providing only a partial view of the tape.

Next...if you have the patience for it ... Part 2 will use the sequence of tape pieces and a few other observations about them to suggest how they were applied.

Gosh BJB thx so much!
Now, where and how do I sign up for your class! :biggrin:

First – it is important to observe the order in which segments must’ve been torn from the roll and how that relates each end one to the other. For example, when tape is layered, the outer-most segment was the last one torn from the roll.



Second – it is important to note that the Henkel logo markings provide us with an easy means to identify the direction each segment of tape was originally on the roll. This cuts in half the number of possible end pairings that we have to consider. :thumb:

Third – consider when a right handed person applies tape from a roll they will typically use their right hand to spool the roll in a left-to-right direction. The Henkel logo orientation on Q64 and Q63 are consistent with this left-to-right application, FWIW.

Consider the following simple 2-dimensional scale image of Caylee’s face using one of her recent pictures and an average pupillary distance for a 3 year old female of 46mm using the linked reference.



Important elements used in the speculation that follows:


Unfortunately, I haven’t found anything in the above yet to convince me beyond a doubt that the tape was applied post vs. peri-mortem. I can still envision either scenario. Although if I'm forced to make a call @ the moment, the simplicity of the tape originating and returning to the garage begs post-mortem application. I need to let this sink in a bit more and perhaps it’ll become clearer. :waitasec:

Wow, Bond. Amazing work!!!

I don't know how you do it.....

Thank you for all the time you put into this.



So necessary, but sooo sad to see this scenario up close and personal.... :cry: :cry: :cry:

I don't know how the jury will get through the autopsy photos.