IL - Man in tactical vest taking photos of school shot dead by LE

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bluesneakers

bluesneakers

not today satan
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At first they said he was armed with a gun and I can understand they would probably be justified in shooting him before he shot them or someone else (depending on his actions, especially at a school). But what I don't understand is how they shot him during a struggle because if they were struggling with him they had to have been close enough to know he was armed only with a replica. And wouldn't they be able to wrestle it away from him? Were they worried about shooting one another?

Man With Airsoft Gun Wearing Body Armor Fatally Shot By Police In Zion

Zion police shot and killed a man clad in body armor and armed with what appears to be an airsoft gun who was reportedly taking photographs of schools, police said Wednesday.
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Man Chases, Fatally Shot After Photographing Schools in Zion

Officials said the 38-year-old man was wearing a tactical-style vest with homemade metal plates inside and carrying a airsoft gun, which they had initially thought was a real gun.

...
Police spotted the man and began to chase him, police said.

During a struggle between the offender and officers, the man was shot. The man was taken to Vista East Hospital, where he was pronounced dead.
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Man shot to death by Zion police was carrying replica gun

Lake County Sheriff’s Det. Christopher Covelli said the man was wearing a “tactical vest” with “homemade” metal reinforcement. He was carrying what “appeared to be a handgun” but was “probably an Airsoft gun.”
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IMO if they were struggling with him it's very possible they weren't able to get a good look at the gun. They happen so fast it's hard to say how much they could see.
 
I hope we'll see a picture of the gun.
 
My stepson had one that was pretty realistic but had an orange tip. His dad had a pellet one that looked AND FELT very realistic--heavy and no orange anywhere--realistic markings. If someone had one like that I can't really feel bad for them if they acted like it was real and we're treated accordingly, but, admittedly I didn't read the article. I also hid the guns from stepson... And his dad lol.
 
Thanks Tillicum, and me too.

My next question is WHY on EARTH is someone wearing a homemade tactical vest, carrying a fake gun, and taking pictures at a school? He must have been his own special breed of not-all-there.

JMO
 
flourish said:
My stepson had one that was pretty realistic but had an orange tip. His dad had a pellet one that looked AND FELT very realistic--heavy and no orange anywhere--realistic markings. If someone had one like that I can't really feel bad for them if they acted like it was real and we're treated accordingly, but, admittedly I didn't read the article. I also hid the guns from stepson... And his dad lol.
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These all have orange tips but I'm sure they can be modified.
http://www.hobbytron.com/AirsoftGuns.html

I was thinking if they were wrestling or struggling with them they would be able to tell by the weight or feel of the gun.

Maybe they should just not sell these, or make a rule they have to not look like any actual gun that exists in the world.
 
flourish said:
My stepson had one that was pretty realistic but had an orange tip. His dad had a pellet one that looked AND FELT very realistic--heavy and no orange anywhere--realistic markings. If someone had one like that I can't really feel bad for them if they acted like it was real and we're treated accordingly, but, admittedly I didn't read the article. I also hid the guns from stepson... And his dad lol.
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My son has one that doesn't have an orange tip. It looks and feels like the real thing. Even up close it's hard to tell.
 
Yeah, acting a freak outside a school?

IMO, way more seriouser than just a nutter walking down the street.

But then, I get very MamaBear about anything to do with kids.

I know this; I don't own any real guns, but I sure as hello would not have any toy ones, either. Nor let my children play with them. We don't want to make any LE "fear for their safety". I am allergic to getting shot.


bluesneakers said:
Thanks Tillicum, and me too.

My next question is WHY on EARTH is someone wearing a homemade tactical vest, carrying a fake gun, and taking pictures at a school? He must have been his own special breed of not-all-there.

JMO
Click to expand...
 
bluesneakers said:
Thanks Tillicum, and me too.

My next question is WHY on EARTH is someone wearing a homemade tactical vest, carrying a fake gun, and taking pictures at a school? He must have been his own special breed of not-all-there.

JMO
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It will be interesting to see what they find in his apartment.
 
Tillicum said:
It will be interesting to see what they find in his apartment.
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It will. To me it just seems like photographing kids at school is one thing (back off weirdo, get away from the children, and who knows what he's hiding), and the play body armour and play gun is something else. If it were just the kid thing I would say they're going to find *advertiser censored* and other icky stuff. Just the gun and body armour I would think more real or fake military stuff, a manifesto, you know the stuff they find in mass shooters' homes.

But together??
 
EllieBee said:
Yeah, acting a freak outside a school?

IMO, way more seriouser than just a nutter walking down the street.

But then, I get very MamaBear about anything to do with kids.

I know this; I don't own any real guns, but I sure as hello would not have any toy ones, either. Nor let my children play with them. We don't want to make any LE "fear for their safety". I am allergic to getting shot.
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I too have a thing about weirdos with cameras and guns hanging around children. I would have freaked right out if I'd seen him there. Holy crap.
 
I think he expected to die. Seems he was kind of asking for it. Who wears a tactical vest and takes pictures outside of schools, holding a realistic looking weapon? I think he had to know he was going to get lots of negative attention.
 
It is completely unreasonable to expect officers struggling with someone to be able to identify whether or not their gun is an actual gun or an airsoft gun, and it is even less realistic to think they would be able to make any judgement about its weight.

Police are not, and should not be, required to try to wrestle a gun away from someone.
 
drjones said:
It is completely unreasonable to expect officers struggling with someone to be able to identify whether or not their gun is an actual gun or an airsoft gun, and it is even less realistic to think they would be able to make any judgement about its weight.

Police are not, and should not be, required to try to wrestle a gun away from someone.
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I keep reading what is NOT the job of the police, and what they should NOT be expected to do.

Please, can you tell me, then, what IS their job? Obvious it is not to serve or protect.
 
I've changed the thread title for clarity.

Sounds like LE was trying to serve and protect to me.
 
EllieBee said:
I keep reading what is NOT the job of the police, and what they should NOT be expected to do.

Please, can you tell me, then, what IS their job? Obvious it is not to serve or protect.
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Lets just talk about the job of the police in this specific case.

Do you take issue with something they did in this incident?

Their job in this case was to respond to a school where someone was acting suspicious and taking pictures.
When they arrived the man ran so their job was to pursue him.
When they caught him he fought with them, and apparently was wearing home made body armor and had what appeared to be a gun.
So their job was now to risk their lives to try to subdue this obviously deranged person who they reasonably and rightfully thought to be armed.

I would imagine the vast majority of the people in that school and neighborhood felt both served and protected when they read about this incident.
 
EllieBee said:
I keep reading what is NOT the job of the police, and what they should NOT be expected to do.

Please, can you tell me, then, what IS their job? Obvious it is not to serve or protect.
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Their job IS to serve and protect - and make reasonable assessments. It's reasonable, IMHO, when wrestling someone to the ground who was running to avoid arrest and is wearing body armor and carrying a pistol, to believe that's a real pistol and not a fake one. That's a reasonable conclusion, and one they should be able to act on as if it were indeed a real loaded handgun.
 
IMHO in the current climate, I'd be as freaked out about the vest, the homemade part could have concealed explosives.

I'd have shot before getting up close enough to find out.
 
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