Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #3

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WillenFan21 said:
Because if she was in the trunk then Geroge would have saw Caylee in there and he saw the gas cans and some of the stuff that was in the trunk. So I am confused about that.
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He also said he saw clothes. I was thinking at the time he said that in his interview, the baby was probably under the clothes in a container and it probably did stink, that's why KC grabbed the cans and met him in the driveway and shoved the cans in his hands.
 
JWG said:
I did a ping analysis of June 16, including drive times and cell tower sector locations. KC drove straight to AL's, leaving her parent's around 4:12 PM. I don't believe she stopped along the way.

IMO, Caylee died at the Anthony's mid-afternoon and that is why there was a flurry of calls. Not reaching anyone, she had a chance to "calm down" and decided to put her daughter in the trunk to give herself time to figure out what to do.
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I really do not know much about pings, but what time did she arrive at tone's on the 16th ?
 
MyTinkieGirl said:
OK...xanax is a REALLY bitter drug. I can be quite sure Caylee wouldn't drink it, even if it WAS in her juice with all that sugar. Went to a bizarre "druggie" site....xanax is NOT soluble in water...it IS soluble in alcohol and other things. BUT, they also suggested grinding it and put it into a "gel cap". On drugs.com, they warn about buying it from online pharmacy's, as it often contains some of the drug "haldol". A strong antipsychotic...and I quote "with dangerous side effects". Casey probably DID use a gel cap...Caylee probably was used to that....OR, EVEN BETTER, dissolved it in Benadryl and gave it to her with the dropper thingie. The combo of the Benedryl, xanax, and haldol (if from an online pharmacy) probably was deadly that last time. Poor caylee didn't have a chance.
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if a child was given only the zanax, by whatever method how long would it take for her to go to sleep ? tia
 
Baznme said:
That could explain the 2.6 days! Let's say she was in the trunk from either the night of the 15th, day of the sixteenth until the 18th which is when she borrowed the shovel. She may have been planning on burying her in the back yard but changed her mind. I think at that point is when she put her in some kind of container. C & A's garage is piled to the ceiling with them.
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If she was dead by 6:00pm on the 16th of june that would put the disposal overnight between the 18th and 19th 2.6 days, per the bodyfarm. look at the pings overnight from the 18th through the 19th.
 
KellioPSL said:
If she was dead by 6:00pm on the 16th of june that would put the disposal overnight between the 18th and 19th 2.6 days, per the bodyfarm. look at the pings overnight from the 18th through the 19th.
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No, no - that's not what I mean. What I meant to convey is that the time the baby lay in the trunk was 2.6 days without being contained. When KC borrowed the shovel, she used it to help lift her and put her in a plastic container. Lord knows, she probably still had her in the trunk on the 24th but in a container when she shoved the gas cans over to her father. He said he could see some clothes in there, so I think Caylee was still in there with clothes piled on top of the container. I think she disposed of her sometime between the afternoon of the 24th and the morning of the 27th. She may have been doing just that on the morning of the 27th as the mgr. of Amscot saw the car at 7am that morning but Tony didn't pick her up until 11am in the parking lot of Amscot on the same day. Do I have that right?
 
Salem said:
The 20th to the 30th is 10 days. How badly would the car smell in 10 days given the FL heat and humidity?

Salem
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In heat and humidity, a body could decompose very, very quickly. I don't think it would take long for that nasty smell to set in after decomposition has caused bodily fluids to excrete. 2.6 days would be more than ample time for the odors to penetrate everything. Truly, it would need 2.6 days for the odor to set in. It's like if you dumped cesspool waste in the car trunk for a few hours. I doubt that would be easy to get out.

I think the tow truck driver didn't smell the stench for two reasons, he said he was getting over a cold and there was a dumpster nearby. He may have unconsciously brushed off the smell as coming from the dumpster, and promptly forgot about it.
 
dsd07 said:
I do not find it odd that he says "put" her to sleep. I myself say that sometimes and many of my friends and family do as well. For example, I might say: "I will call you back after I put my son to bed"...etc. I hear that alot. I don't see any relevance to that phrase.
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I don't know if it's a Southern thing or not, but I catch myself and all my friends with kids saying, for example, "I'm putting her down and then I can watch the movie." I'm from Georgia... maybe people say this all over, but I know for sure they say it around here!
 
WillenFan21 said:
I think that something happend to Caylee on either the night of June 15th or really early morning of June 16th. Casey was seen with Tony at Blockbuster on June 16th and she did not have Caylee with her so I am assuming something happend to Caylee before that time. It had to be b/c she was scene without Caylee from that time on. .
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I agree with you. IF KC truly wanted to get rid of Caylee to punish Cindy, then it makes sense that the act occurred right after the fight on the 15th. KC's furious and her anger is at a high point, so I think something happens to that baby before the sun is even up. She spends all night on the phone with TonE, texting or talking, and I think this was either what led up to the death of the baby, or she was collaborating on what to do about what had already happened to Caylee.

While I'm on this theory idea, IF KC didn't kill Caylee on purpose, but something happened accidentally while in the commission of a felony (i.e. anything from drugging the baby to something even seedier that I don't want to consider), then I think Caylee did not die until later in the month of June. If her death wasn't premeditated, then I think KC was drugging the baby starting the end of May throughout the middle of June.

Either way, KC will NEVER tell where Caylee is, because regardless of how Caylee's death occurred, even if at someone else's hands, the location of her child's body portrays KC in an unfavorable light of her own making, and unfortunately, if something doesn't complement KC, make her richer, or more popular, then she wants no part in it. In KC's mind, I think her child was hers to have and hers to take away, if she wanted. In KC's world, everything is up to her. And that's never been more clear than now, considering she holds all the answers. However, I think KC's downfall is going to be that mouth of hers, and the "friends" she thinks she had. Those same friends are what I'm hoping will bring her down, and we will all find this out at trial.
 
Originally Posted by KellioPSL
kc was zanaxing caylee, on 6/06 she goes to fusion, she tells ah and ric that her boss sent her there to check on daughter ric states that she showed up at his apartment at around 11:30 that night, with caylee and they spent the night. Earlier when kc was at fusion who was watching caylee ? She was zanaxed and in the trunk of the car. (I wonder if le asked ric if caylee was only wearing a diper when kc brought her in the apartment) kc zanaxed caylee numerous times between 6/1 and 6/16. I'm sure there was a fight on the 15th but it is irrelevant, I'm sure there were alot of fights. The 16th of June, the call from the a's home to kc's cell was probably to tell kc to get up and come out of her room and take care of her daughter. I believe ga did see kc and caylee leave at 12:50, but they didnt go far, they were right by the a's home waiting for ga to go to work, after ga left they came back. kc then leaves the a's house heading toward tones, she starts making phone calls ga ca ah, she was trying to get someone to watch caylee. Then it looks like she stops somewhere on the way to tone's. she stopped probably took caylee's sipee cup that had juice in it, and crushed up a zanax in it, she waited then for her to go to sleep, took caylee's clothes off, and put her in the trunk. Off to tone's and leaves her car in the parking lot with Caylee in the trunk asleep, this time was different though, she either had chloroform in a container in her trunk or spilled some in her trunk, anyway because of the chloroform there was no oxygen and caylee was probably dead before she even got to tone's. I bet that she checked on her sometime that evening and knew that she was dead. I dont think she did this on purpose but when kc zanaxed her that was felonious assault and death during the comission of felonious assault is 1st degree murder. So date of death imho was early evening on june 16th. (thank you Joyce for pointing out the ping info for the 16th and thank you bondjamesbond for idea of what all the calls were about that aftrenoon)

__________________
I like this theory. Makes the most sense of all the ones I have heard. It sounds about right. I believe Caylee died on June 16. No we just need to figure out what she did AFTER Caylee died. To me that is the most confusing and convoluted part
 
KellioPSL said:
if a child was given only the zanax, by whatever method how long would it take for her to go to sleep ? tia
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I'm not sure, but I will say that I've taken Xanax before and it's not that strong of a "relaxant". At least not for me and at the I only weighed 113 lbs. at the time. I barely noticed any effect as a matter of fact and wondered what the big deal was regarding it (as far as being an "anti-anxiety" drug) The effect (if any) was incredibly subtle. I didn't even feel the least bit sleepy or drowsy, so I'm thinking even for a 35# child, it may have to be quite a bit to induce sleep, esp. sleep lasting hours...:confused:
 
Unsure how long it would take a child to feel the effects of xanax, i've obviously never given it to my children. But from past experience it usually takes about 20-30 minutes to feel the effects (your anxiety is lessened.) But a child is little and their body will process that sort of medication different so maybe even sooner than that?
 
An adults tolerance level to any drug will vary drastically. I've had a much different personal experience with Xanax. Maybe this will help in some way?:

I take prescribed Xanax (Alprazolam)to help me sleep a couple nights a week. And boy does it knock me out. Sometimes I wake up in the exact same position I fell asleep in- 6 to 8 hours later, and I take one of the lowest strengths available (0.5mg).

The pill I take is VERY SMALL. It can be broken in half very easily to make it even smaller.

For me, it can take anywhere from 30 minutes to 1 1/2 hours to feel the effects after swallowing the pill. You can chew it but it is bitter.

Prescription is very cheap 30 pills are less than $10. They are very easy to buy on the street, but very dangerous.

The lowest strength pill is 0.25, then 0.5, then they go up to what is called a 'Bar'. It can be 1.0 or 2.0 mg. The bars have notches in them so you can easily just break off what strength you need that day.

They are highly addictive. One could easily become addicted after just a couple of weeks taking them daily. You would need to keep increasing your dosage to feel the same effects. Withdrawal symptoms would just be nervousness/anxiety for a low dosage.

My personal opinion is that it would be very easy to overdose a child of just 35 lbs. (I'm 5'4, 130lbs and it renders me into a semi-comatose state). It would be very easy to give to a child- crush into food or hide a piece in a little snickers snack bar, or taken with yummy tasting chewable vitamins?
 
I find it hard to believe that KC was drugging her and putting her in the trunk or wherever. How was KC to know when the drugs would wear off and then the baby would be crying or screaming in the trunk and ANYONE in earshot would hear her?? That would be too risky to KC.....I think she bought or made the chloroform with the intention of killing her. The baby had to have been dead before the blockbuster video...she wasnt seen again by ANYONE!

I just do not think KC would leave her anywhere knowing she was "out" from drugs. How would she know when she woke up, if ever? I think she chloroformed her while she was in the carseat, she died from that, and then put her and the "rag" in the trunk- does anyone else think this way??
 
IIRC - the dogs did not hit on the carseat. I have thought about that scenario also and admit I am not convinced that Caylee's death was an accident, but I don't think she died in the car seat or the back seat, because the dogs did not hit there.

Salem
 
Salem said:
IIRC - the dogs did not hit on the carseat. I have thought about that scenario also and admit I am not convinced that Caylee's death was an accident, but I don't think she died in the car seat or the back seat, because the dogs did not hit there.

Salem
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Would the dogs hit there even if she had only been dead in the carseat for a short time? I dont have knowledge as to how early dogs can hit on the smell of decomposition or death.......anyone?
 
JustMy2Cents said:
Originally Posted by KellioPSL
kc was zanaxing caylee, on 6/06 she goes to fusion, she tells ah and ric that her boss sent her there to check on daughter ric states that she showed up at his apartment at around 11:30 that night, with caylee and they spent the night. Earlier when kc was at fusion who was watching caylee ? She was zanaxed and in the trunk of the car. (I wonder if le asked ric if caylee was only wearing a diper when kc brought her in the apartment) kc zanaxed caylee numerous times between 6/1 and 6/16. I'm sure there was a fight on the 15th but it is irrelevant, I'm sure there were alot of fights. The 16th of June, the call from the a's home to kc's cell was probably to tell kc to get up and come out of her room and take care of her daughter. I believe ga did see kc and caylee leave at 12:50, but they didnt go far, they were right by the a's home waiting for ga to go to work, after ga left they came back. kc then leaves the a's house heading toward tones, she starts making phone calls ga ca ah, she was trying to get someone to watch caylee. Then it looks like she stops somewhere on the way to tone's. she stopped probably took caylee's sipee cup that had juice in it, and crushed up a zanax in it, she waited then for her to go to sleep, took caylee's clothes off, and put her in the trunk. Off to tone's and leaves her car in the parking lot with Caylee in the trunk asleep, this time was different though, she either had chloroform in a container in her trunk or spilled some in her trunk, anyway because of the chloroform there was no oxygen and caylee was probably dead before she even got to tone's. I bet that she checked on her sometime that evening and knew that she was dead. I dont think she did this on purpose but when kc zanaxed her that was felonious assault and death during the comission of felonious assault is 1st degree murder. So date of death imho was early evening on june 16th. (thank you Joyce for pointing out the ping info for the 16th and thank you bondjamesbond for idea of what all the calls were about that aftrenoon)

__________________
I like this theory. Makes the most sense of all the ones I have heard. It sounds about right. I believe Caylee died on June 16. No we just need to figure out what she did AFTER Caylee died. To me that is the most confusing and convoluted part
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I really, really like this theory,too. The only part that I have reservations about is that if Caylee would have survived any amount of time in the trunk. If KC put her in the trunk on the night of the 6th of June the temperature inside of the trunk would have risen to at least 112 degrees within 1 hour. That calculation is using the low temperature of 73 degrees, which was in the morning of 7 June. I'm sure it was hotter than that during the evening when she would have been originally placed in the trunk. The high was 93 degrees on the 6th. The weather history I used only listed the high and low but not by the hour -- So, to error on the side of conservatism, I used the lowest temp and the chart I found listed at: http://www.4rkidssake.org/Vehicleheatstudy.htm (Study of Excessive Temps in Enclosed Vehicles).
Their conclusions: "When temperatures exceed 80 F (26.7C) potentially lethal temperatures of 105 F (40.6C) plus can be reached in less than 20 minutes and when they exceed 88 F (31.1C) lethal readings can be reached in 10 minutes or less. Only minor mitigation achieved by “cracking” the windows or having a vehicle of larger size or a lighter color."
IMO, it doesn't sound like Caylee would have survived the first hour in the the trunk, drugs or no drugs.
But I respect everything else in this theory. The timeline is right, the cell phone useage and pings are right. Could she have drugged her and used any other place instead of the trunk? If we could come up with another hiding place it would all fit!
 
dsd07 said:
I find it hard to believe that KC was drugging her and putting her in the trunk or wherever. How was KC to know when the drugs would wear off and then the baby would be crying or screaming in the trunk and ANYONE in earshot would hear her?? That would be too risky to KC.....I think she bought or made the chloroform with the intention of killing her. The baby had to have been dead before the blockbuster video...she wasnt seen again by ANYONE!

I just do not think KC would leave her anywhere knowing she was "out" from drugs. How would she know when she woke up, if ever? I think she chloroformed her while she was in the carseat, she died from that, and then put her and the "rag" in the trunk- does anyone else think this way??
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I'm thinking along these lines as well, don't know how/where she died, but in the car seat is entirely possible. She was constrained, so easy to keep her immobile, and even if she was driving around with her after the fact for a little while she would have just looked "asleep" if anyone saw. Also, don't think the carseat would have smelled of decomp if she was in it for just a little while, a reason why the dogs wouldn't have hit on it.

I also don't think that Casey made it a regular habit to put Caylee in the trunk, you're right it is far too risky. Someone walking by would immediately wonder why a baby was crying in the trunk, (or any of the other scenarios which could have occured if she woke up). Maybe she did, this theory seems to almost be accepted at this point (that she made it a habit of putting her in the trunk to sleep drugged) I tend to think she put her in the trunk the one time after she died because it made the most sense as far as a hiding place, at least for a short time, or that she died in the trunk due to chloroform like you said...?

Sorry, long and drawn out, but my point is I also don't think the trunk thing was a regular habit.
 
cocowiley said:
can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not but, here is a woman, supposedly drugging her child and putting her to bed in the trunk of a car, why the heck would she care if she got hot or not?

i don't think she took her clothes off until after she dies and before she puts her in a bag or suitcase and gets rid of the body.
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No i was being serious. That is the only reason why I would think she would take her clothes off. Maybe Casey really didn't think she was doing any harm since she did it before and Caylee was fine. NO WAY am I sticking up for her. I think she is pure evil! Just throwing out scenarios I guess. JMO
 
I want to touch on the fact that people say that kids won't take things that taste bitter and how Casey could get Caylee to take Zanex. My daughter (who is two) has to take allergy medicine. It is VERY bitter and she hated it,.. at first. I would ALWAYS give her juice and an M&M after she took it. She still doesn't like it but takes it because she knows she is going to get a treat. Casey could be doing the same thing with Caylee,.. just a thought. JMO
 
I believe that KC had been using xanex (Zanny) as the "babysitter" in the past.

I believe that KC had bigger and better plans, so to speak, and Caylee wasn't part of them.

In May, I believe it was, didn't she communicate to Amy about how she could put all her "stuff" in her parents' room, plenty of storage, etc.?

In May, wasn't there a change of address for Amy to the Hopespring location? (I believe CA spoke of it in her interview. For whatever that's worth.) Easily verifyable through the post office.

Didn't Amy wake up one morning in different clothes and money was missing? (I believe that was KC's first test of chloroform.)

I believe that she Chloroformed Caylee the afternoon of the 16th in order to meet with TonE, who had already told her that the child would be an issue. Put her to sleep, just as she did Amy. She saw Amy awakened, had no reason to think Caylee wouldn't. Off we go to Blockbuster to rent movies.

Problem is...she left the chloro rag (and perhaps the chloro) in the trunk with little Caylee after little Caylee was knocked out.

The poor baby was dead by morning. KC didn't discover that until whatever time she got up.

I think that Caylee was only the first part of KC's plan, but it didn't work quite as planned. I think ultimately she was going to kill GA and CA as well, (my stuff in parents' room, plenty of storage) and Caylee was the first step in that plan.

I just think that part 1 of her plan, (Caylee) happened before she expected or planned for. Planning backfired.

Begin self-preservation and hang on to the "Oh S**t handle" because it's going to be quite a ride.

I believe Caylee was killed on the night of the 16th and removed two days later. There is no way KC would handle a body much more decomposed than that, especially in the Florida heat and humidity. No way.

I wish I could remember the date she borrowed the shovel. :(
 
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