FL - 17-yo Teen Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #3

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I am against a lot of things but I still watch to see what is going on.

The war in the Middle East for example. For or against, these students are news.



Adrienne37 said:
Just curious why you are continuing to watch the live feed if you are so against what these students are doing?
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JeannaT said:
He didn't pretend to resign. He stepped aside temporarily. Recusing himself, basically, from the process.
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I do think he did the right thing stepping aside. Had he quit he'd be saying he knows he made the wrong decision. This way someone else will decide. jmo
 
JeannaT said:
I agree, for the reasons he stated. He's become a distraction, the situation is becoming dangerously volatile (IMHO) and it's time to lessen the furor.

I still think we all need a lot more information before insisting some man gets arrested. I don't think whether to arrest someone is usually done by popularity poll when the respondents have no idea what the evidence is.
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Very true. Now that Sharpton's involved it's going to be a circus imo.
 
JeannaT said:
Then you know the extent of Zimmeman's injuries? I've missed that, except what was posted in rumors at the end of an MSM article, and it wasn't pretty.
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I do not need to know the extent of Zimmerman's injuries. Trayvon was 17 years old, 140 pounds; Zimmerman was 28 years old, weighed at least 240 pounds and was also carrying a 9 mm semi-automatic gun so exactly what did Trayvon do to him? Flog him upside the head a couple of times with the bag of Skittles? Give me a break!
 
rossva said:
IIRC: It has been reported LE couldn't access his phone, contacts, logs, etc because he had a lock code on it.
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TM had his phone on him. He was speaking with his girlfriend. His father was unaware of his son's death so who had the phone. It would have either been LE or GZ. The phone was recovered. It's part of the crime scene. LE had to have had it. Maybe it was returned to the family and they LE wanted it back to check and see who TM was talking to but LE had to have the phone if the family ended up with it. jmo
 
TM was talking to his girlfriend at the time he was shot. 17 year-olds live on the phone. It is one of their most prized possessions. Was the phone still in TM's hand and this is why LE did not find the phone right away???? Anyone know?? Why would LE say they didn't have the phone? It had to be there. jmo
 
Adrienne37 said:
I do not need to know the extent of Zimmerman's injuries. Trayvon was 17 years old, 140 pounds; Zimmerman was 28 years old, weighed at least 240 pounds and was also carrying a 9 mm semi-automatic gun so exactly what did Trayvon do to him? Flog him upside the head a couple of times with the bag of Skittles? Give me a break!
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Good question. You never know what's going to happen in a fight, regardless of size. It is certainly possible he got the better of GZ, and we don't know where the gun was during the altercation.
 
Has that neighbor ever called the police to report a white person walking around in the neighborhood? You are basing the one incident your son was involved in to say it was based on race. What was the race of the neighbor who made the call?


MayraMM said:
My son is black and went to go visit my mother last summer in Florida. While her community isn't gated, it might as well be. Definitely high-end homes. My son went for a walk, only to have a neighbor call the police because there was someone suspicious in the neighborhood. On the one hand, it's nice that they're looking out for one another, but on the other hand, he was doing nothing of a suspicious nature. He was simply going for a walk. He was guilty of being black, and that's it. The last few days since this horrible incident happened, I've been sitting here thinking how it could easily have been my son. My heart goes out to that boy's family and the family of the shooter, because hopeful justice will be done and he'll be held accountable for his actions.
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Anadarko said:
I've read many posts and articles referring to past scrapes with the law that GZ has had. What I can't recall is, was he ever convicted of anything? Any incidents that would show up on a criminal background check?

TIA
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He was arrested and charged but underwent a diversion program that allowed for the ultimate dismissal of those charges upon completion of the program. Thus, he was not innocent, nor did they lack evidence, but he satisfied he DA that he had reformed enough to dismiss the charges. Usually diversion is offered when the DA feels the crime was an isolated incident.

Wise Old Owl said:
First I've heard of this but it doesn't surprise me - being Sanford PD and all. The critical info is just exactly what went on at the scene. With such a tight timeline, Trayvon was shot 7:15-7:16 and LE arrived on scene at 7:17. Who saw what? Who was where and exactly what position was Trayvon AND GZ in? GZ could not have just been this calm "I shot this kid" level headed person (if he was - that's a red flag, or should have been right there).

So who said what? What was discussed. How many officers ended up responding? What did each one of them see, hear, say and do? I just can't imagine any officer responding to a shooting and letting the guy with the gun walk away. If the gun was visible in GZ's hand - then that officer should have gotten out of his car with his drawn! GZ should have been ordered, at gunpoint, to drop the weapon and then been immediately cuffed and removed to a backseat. Did ANY of that happen?

I just do not understand why GZ is walking free.


JMHO
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I read that he was initially handcuffed after he was asked to drop his gun. IMO, as soon as they saw a black person on the ground, he was un-cuffed.

tlcox said:
I realize you are simply attempting to assert a bit of balance to the thread and play devil's advocate but the point I was making is that it IS a prosecutor's decision. Not that of the investigating officers. THAT is my problem with this case. The responding officers determined that because GZ said he was defending himself that the stand your ground law applied to him. Then the department stated they "could not" arrest GZ because he had used that defense when people protested. My problem and my point is - This is untrue. They can take him into custody, have him arraigned, where he can then make this claim to a judge who will then rule if this specific law applies and whether he should be held over for trial.

Again. I get what you are doing and am not trying to be argumentative, but my issue is with LEOs in the field interpreting the law. It should not be happening. Their role is enforcement. Further, IF the PD in that area truly thinks they are not allowed to take anyone into custody who asserts self defense, that is a big problem IMO MOO and all that jazz.
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LE does have a choice in most situations. If there is clear evidence at the scene that it was self-defense, like corroborating witnesses or a fully armed dead guy, accomplice confession, then they do not have to arrest. Remember the case of the gal in OK who shot dead the man trying to break into her home with a knife? He was found draped over a couch she had tried to use to barricade her door. He had a weapon. She had called 911 and explained what was happening. Hence, no arrest and I applaud them for that.

This case is vastly different. Suspect was unarmed, killer was asked NOT to follow the victim and ignored that request, some witnesses ID'd the victim as the one who was crying for help or being straddled and there is no corroborating evidence to indicate that Trayvon attacked Zimmerman. IMO, he should have been arrested at the scene.

essies said:
ITA
I wonder if we will get to hear those 46 or how ever many calls under the Fla. Sunshine Law?:waitasec:
It would be interesting to hear who or what else he was reporting!:moo:
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On the first thread, someone posted the audio and info re the 46 calls. Apparently, many of the calls were all were about "suspicious" black people. Here is some audio: http://www.clickorlando.com/news/RA...alls/-/1637132/9563884/-/rhd7jqz/-/index.html

Wise Old Owl said:
Interesting

It is classified as "Homicide-Negligent Manslaughter - Unnecessary killing to prevent an unlawful act"

GZ was held at gunpoint and cuffed. Major cases was called in.

I don't get it. EVERYTHING in this report screams that charges should have been made.

Who are all the witnesses? As these the residents that called 911? I thought no one was around are actually saw the shooting.

Also, all the officers state they saw Trayvon laying on the ground but didn't immediately check on him at all. Why is that?
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IMO, because Trayvon was black. As you can see, there are many people who just assume a black young man must be aggressive.

Salem said:
If there was an altercation, and Zimmerman was on the ground, Tray on top of him, WHY was Tray found lying on his stomach with his hands underneath him? How does that make sense?

To be face down, Zimmerman would have had to have fired from a standing position, far enough back for Tray to fall forward.....

Anyone have any other explanation for how Tray might have ended up, face down with his hands underneath him?

Salem
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He's shot and rolls over or is pushed over.

TracyLynnS said:
Why does that police report (post 81) include the weight of every single witness, and the victim, but no weight is recorded for the subject?
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They didn't want to outline that the victim was outweighed by double by the killer who shot him.
 
On Anderson, the CNN legal analyst spoke about the First Aggressor Exception. Someone spoke about this the other night.

There have been quite a few legal analysts who spoke about an exception being who was the aggressor.

I truly believe, especially that given the past history of that department, that they thought that very night that it would all just go away, and this unknown black kid who MUST HAVE BEEN up to no good would just be another statistic.

They closed the case before it even started. That's where the outrage is.

JMHO
 
gitana1 said:
He was arrested and charged but underwent a diversion program that allowed for the ultimate dismissal of those charges upon completion of the program. Thus, he was not innocent, nor did they lack evidence, but he satisfied he DA that he had reformed enough to dismiss the charges. Usually diversion is offered when the DA feels the crime was an isolated incident.



I read that he was initially handcuffed after he was asked to drop his gun. IMO, as soon as they saw a black person on the ground, he was uncuffed.



LE does have a choice in most situations. If there is clear evidence at the scene that it was self-defense, like corroborating witnesses or a fully armed dead guy, accomplice confession, then they do not have to arrest. Remember the case of the gal in OK who shot dead the man trying to break into her home with a knife. He was found draped over a couch she had tried to use to barricade her door. he had a weapon. She had called 911 and explained what was happening. Hence, no arrest and I applaud them for that.

This case is vastly different. Suspect was unarmed, killer was asked NOT to follow the victim and ignored that arrest, some witnesses ID'd the victim as the one who was crying for help or being straddled and there is no corroborating evidence to indicate that Trayvon attacked Zimmerman. IMO, he should have been arrested at the scene.



On the first thread, someone posted the audio and info re the 46 calls. Apparently, many of the calls were all were about "suspicious" black people. Here is some audio: http://www.clickorlando.com/news/RA...alls/-/1637132/9563884/-/rhd7jqz/-/index.html



IMO, because Trayvon was black. As you can see, there are many people who just assume a black young man must be aggressive.



He's shot and rolls over or is pushed over.



They didn't want to outline that the victim was outweighed by double by the killer who shot him.
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You would think if TM had been in a fight with GZ there would be marks on his hands, bruises of some kind on his body. I think the parents should ask for a copy of the autopsy report. jmo
 
JeannaT said:
Then you know the extent of Zimmeman's injuries? I've missed that, except what was posted in rumors at the end of an MSM article, and it wasn't pretty.
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GZ injuries were noted in the report. Blood on the back of his head and a bloody nose, you're right, not pretty at all.

I've never seen what a shot from a Kel-Tec 9 mm pistol can do to a person but I imagine that's not pretty either.
 
You know I am very leery right now. I have a very bad feeling with this "rally" going on right now.. Al sharpton being there, Increased tension... Not a good mix in my opinion.

(watching wesh online right now with people yelling.) I sure hope they can keep this peaceful, and nothing bad comes of it, but like I said I have a really really bad feeling right now!
 
Don't start bickering, please.

Be respectful of each other and keep the discussion going.

Thanks,

Salem
 
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