George Zimmerman's Injuries #1

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BBM - just because some have an opinion one way or the other, doesn't mean they should be labeled here at WS. IMO - this is not a pro/con forum, it's a victim's forum.

The autopsy should should show whether there were defensive wounds or not. According to the lead investigator, GZ's injuries were not consistent with his story (stories).

I think this is a special case, as the outcome will DETERMINE if TM was a victim or not. Unlike MOST death cases, where there is a DEFINITE "victim", there is not necessarily a victim here. If GZ is found not guilty, and warranted in his use of self defemse, well, then TM is no longer a "victim", he becomes a "perpetrator".

And yes, we will find out a lot when the autopsy is released.
 
I think this is a special case, as the outcome will DETERMINE if TM was a victim or not. Unlike MOST death cases, where there is a DEFINITE "victim", there is not necessarily a victim here. If GZ is found not guilty, and warranted in his use of self defemse, well, then TM is no longer a "victim", he becomes a "perpetrator".

And yes, we will find out a lot when the autopsy is released.

TM will always be a victim, he's dead. It's also possible he was "standing his ground" that night. He won't suddenly become the perp' because he can't be charged with anything.
 
According to recent reports, George was straddling Trayvon, with his hands in his pockets. Guess he didn't find the drugs or burglary tools he was expecting. Imagine his surprise to only find Skittles and Iced Tea! I think George targeted Trayvon from the moment he spotted him, and the call to 911 was his cover/ get their approval to pursue...
Yeah, he did know nothing about him, such as that TM was a basically good kid, nothing about any suspensions or other irrelevant factors. He also didn't know Trayvon was on the phone with his girlfriend. He profiled him racially or otherwise based on his own paranoia, IMO.

There is absolutely ZERO evidence that he was going through his pockets. Yes, it has been stated that he was straddling the body when police arrived. I believe it was also stated that he had his hands on his back to try and stop the blood flow from the gunshot.

But here is an interesting thought, if he SHOT TM, then jumped up and straddled him (whether to stop the blood flow, or to search his pockets), WHEN, exactly, did he have the time to cause his own injuries, as you have postulated?
 
TM will always be a victim, he's dead. It's also possible he was "standing his ground" that night. He won't suddenly become the perp' because he can't be charged with anything.

So ANYONE shot during the commision of a crime becomes a victim? If it is proven that GZ acted in self defense, then he was defending himself FROM something or someone. Sorry, that is a FACT.
 
So ANYONE shot during the commision of a crime becomes a victim? If it is proven that GZ acted in self defense, then he was defending himself FROM something or someone. Sorry, that is a FACT.

This is sort on topic. I just received an alert from my local newspaper about an hour ago about something that happened locally. Apparently, a 14 y/o was leaving a gas station on his bicycle after a theft/robbery with someones wallet and the owner chased him down in his minivan, ran him over, got out of the van and started pummelling the kid. The kid has died of his injuries and LE are talking to the van driver. Now, this is Arkansas, so the laws are different than Florida, but we will see what happens with this. I, personally, am shocked.
 
This is sort on topic. I just received an alert from my local newspaper about an hour ago about something that happened locally. Apparently, a 14 y/o was leaving a gas station on his bicycle after a theft/robbery with someones wallet and the owner chased him down in his minivan, ran him over, got out of the van and started pummelling the kid. The kid has died of his injuries and LE are talking to the van driver. Now, this is Arkansas, so the laws are different than Florida, but we will see what happens with this. I, personally, am shocked.

I don't think they are related as while IN the minivan, the guy had no fear of being incapacitated or injured. The kid didn't LEAP off the bike into the car, etc. GZ is claiming that he had no choice, as, per GZ, TM was on top of him.
 
Also, as an owner of many types of guns, I will say that the "rumor" or statement that the "clicking" heard on the tape is GZ's gun, that is COMPLETE IMPOSSIBLE. It was a semi automatic Kel Tec 9mm. There was a FULL magazine, and ONE shell casing. This means that, as many gun carriers do, he inserted the magazine, slid the slide back, allowing a round to enter the chamber, ejected the magazine and placed one more round into it. At this point the gun does not NEED to be "cocked". It is a double action pistol. You pull the trigger, the gun shoots. If it was a single action pistol, yes, it would need to be cocked.

There are only a FEW actions that would cause the gun to make any sounds at all, they are as follows:

1. Pull the trigger=big bang
2. Slide the slide back=Click, with the result being an UNFIRED round ejects and a fresh round enters the chamber
3. Drop the magazine=magazine out of the gun. SOME guns will still fire the remaining round, some will not with the magazine out. My S&W .40 VE will fire with the magazine out, the S&W .40 MP will not fire with the magazine out
 
That's the part that gets to me, too. It looks like his head rolled to one side and then the other side with a longish pause in between. But then, having rolled to the other side, the pattern of both would stream towards it. :waitasec:

If it is indeed, authentic, then I'm guessing they will have a blood spatter expert to explain it.

Spatter expert---great point.

If GZ's head were repeadedly bashed on the sidewalk, there would be blood on the sidewalk. I wonder if there were and I wonder if there are photos. The blood would also not be in neat little rivulets on Zimmerman's head. OK. I don't think it's Zimmerman at all but that's just IMO.
 
Also, as an owner of many types of guns, I will say that the "rumor" or statement that the "clicking" heard on the tape is GZ's gun, that is COMPLETE IMPOSSIBLE. It was a semi automatic Kel Tec 9mm. There was a FULL magazine, and ONE shell casing. This means that, as many gun carriers do, he inserted the magazine, slid the slide back, allowing a round to enter the chamber, ejected the magazine and placed one more round into it. At this point the gun does not NEED to be "cocked". It is a double action pistol. You pull the trigger, the gun shoots. If it was a single action pistol, yes, it would need to be cocked.

There are only a FEW actions that would cause the gun to make any sounds at all, they are as follows:

1. Pull the trigger=big bang
2. Slide the slide back=Click, with the result being an UNFIRED round ejects and a fresh round enters the chamber
3. Drop the magazine=magazine out of the gun. SOME guns will still fire the remaining round, some will not with the magazine out. My S&W .40 VE will fire with the magazine out, the S&W .40 MP will not fire with the magazine out

It would have to be racked. And he could of released the magazine.
 
It would have to be racked. And he could of released the magazine.

I do not understand your statement that it had to be "racked". Yes, he COULD have released the magazine, but why would you draw your gun, and drop the magazine out of it while expecting a confrontation?
 
There is absolutely ZERO evidence that he was going through his pockets. Yes, it has been stated that he was straddling the body when police arrived. I believe it was also stated that he had his hands on his back to try and stop the blood flow from the gunshot.

But here is an interesting thought, if he SHOT TM, then jumped up and straddled him (whether to stop the blood flow, or to search his pockets), WHEN, exactly, did he have the time to cause his own injuries, as you have postulated?

TM was shot in the chest. Where is there evidence that anyone stated GZ was trying to stop the blood flow. Surely if that we true his hand would have been full of blood. jmo
 
Spatter expert---great point.

If GZ's head were repeadedly bashed on the sidewalk, there would be blood on the sidewalk. I wonder if there were and I wonder if there are photos. The blood would also not be in neat little rivulets on Zimmerman's head. OK. I don't think it's Zimmerman at all but that's just IMO.

Plus it was raining that night and there is no grass clippings on his head but LE reported he did have some on his back. If he moved his head to the grass you would think he'd have clippings on the back of his head and the blood would have been smeared. LE said GZ's jacket was wet in the back???? jmo
 
Not sure which method GZ would have used to stop the blood flow since the gunshot wound was in the chest and TM was found lying face down when the police arrived.
 
I do not understand your statement that it had to be "racked". Yes, he COULD have released the magazine, but why would you draw your gun, and drop the magazine out of it while expecting a confrontation?

Rack the slide. Loading? Checking to see if it was fully loaded? I have no idea. It makes no sense, but the sound was there.
 
Rack the slide. Loading? Checking to see if it was fully loaded? I have no idea. It makes no sense, but the sound was there.

The Kel Tec, like the S&W, has a small port in the top, through which you can see the brass/casing if a round is chambered. It does not require pulling the slide back to check and see if it is loaded. Besides, if you went to the trouble of putting the extra round in the clip so you could carry one in the chamber, you wouldn't need to try and remember if it was loaded.

I would bet the "clicks" were something else.
 
The Kel Tec, like the S&W, has a small port in the top, through which you can see the brass/casing if a round is chambered. It does not require pulling the slide back to check and see if it is loaded. Besides, if you went to the trouble of putting the extra round in the clip so you could carry one in the chamber, you wouldn't need to try and remember if it was loaded.

I would bet the "clicks" were something else.

Something can always be something else. That is what it sounded like to me however.
 
Not sure which method GZ would have used to stop the blood flow since the gunshot wound was in the chest and TM was found lying face down when the police arrived.

We will have to wait for the autopsy, but a 9mm shot through the chest at close range could easily pass straight through, leaving a bleeding opening out the back. Yes, it would be senseless to try and STOP that bleeding, as the person would bleed through the front, but after shooting him, in a panic reaction (not due to guilt, but merely due to the fact that shooting someone is a traumatic event, even for the shooter), he could easily have though he could stop the bloodflow. :twocents:
 
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