JR would have said he ANSWERED THE PHONE and listened to the ransom demand.
I can't find a hole in this theory...
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JR would have said he ANSWERED THE PHONE and listened to the ransom demand.
kind of off topic, but something I've been wondering. Has it ever been said if drinks were served at the Ws party? Were any glasses with alcohol, or empty liquor bottles, found at the Rs? because IMO, there's a drunk sound, to the note. Were the RS even drinkers? because it was Christmas, afterall, and a lot of people do tend to over drink during the holidays. MOO.
OpenMind4U
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LOL...yes, RN sounds very childish or at the best, like some derail adult who cannot stop bla-bla-bla...In regards of your question, yes, according to Patsy's depo, she has some wine (if I remember this correctly). Plus, Patsy takes pretty strong medication on daily basis.
Well, that note wasn't whipped out in a couple of minutes...taking into account, the practice notes, and what looks like back and forth referece checking, (books, bible, etc.), I think 90 minutes to get it written, sounds plausible. moo.DocG, no more fights. Let's agree to disagree as a good friends does. Let's change the subject.
Did you read by any chance the 'Three Critical Questions' thread on FFJ initiated by KoldKase? I'm interested how would YOU respond to the second question using your theory 'What happened in the 90 minutes between that blow and the strangulation?'. I would even ask this question differently: 'What prompt to wait for 90 minutes?'.
I disagree. The archive and recent posts point out many holes in that theory and there is no need to repeat the posts. It takes a bit of effort to "research" the archives but it is a worthwhile effort in my view. It's up to docg to prove his theory instead of asking others to disprove it.
I see the Ransom call as a hole in this theory because of the Ramseys refusal to release their phone records. Above is suggesting that JR would have used the phone records as a backup to the ransom call. Then why didnt he want to release them to the police? Unless there is also an assumption that after PR called 911 and messed up his plan, JR then made a call that he wanted kept private?? I dont think so. I think he made at least one call shortly after JBR death that he wouldnt be able to explain later.
I'm too lazy to look up Patsy's quotation right now but OM4U your statement above is how I remember it too. :rocker:
OpenMind4U
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Well, depends. As you remember from AR, JBR Bloomy and longjohn pants have the urine stain on the front which corresponds with urine stain on the carpet near WC, indicating that she dies (from strangulation) right at that spot, lying face down. So, all the cleaning, wiping her crotch area, changes her cloth, apply tape on her mouse, changing her position from being face-up to face-down, applying the rope/constructing 'garotte' on her neck should be done BEFORE the strangulation, agree? So, all of that should be done in these 90 minutes. Now, let's read RN again. Do you think RN was written before or after strangulation? Would you agree that such a 'promps' like 'garotte', robe on her neck and wrists, the tape on her mouse would more assosiated with the 'kidnapper' RN? If yes, then RN was written AFTER strangulation. Hence, reference to beheaded. JMO
docg,
The ransom note is crime-scene staging. Its normally a mistake to generate theories using the staging as forensic evidence.
I reckon the ransom note is nothing more than a diversion. It is someone's attempt at a dramatic ransom note, with the emphasis on drama. It was intended as a rationale for the disappearance of JonBenet, and in the main it achieved its purpose, too successfully for John, who eventually had to discover JonBenet.
I reckon JonBenet had already been staged somewhere else in house probably her bedroom, in which the pink barbie nightgown and doll, played some role. Assuming the bedroom staging was basic, the R's must have realized they would be arrested on the spot, if they reported a dead JonBenet found assaulted in her bed.
So they needed her to be removed from the primary crime-scene, allowing them to remove any incriminating forensic evidence, e.g. blood-stained underwear etc.
So they cleaned up JonBenet, redressed her in the size-12's, white Gap-Top, longjohns, and wrapped her in a white blanket, then likely carried her down the spiral staircase to the basement?
Also at the same point in time or slightly later they gathered up the items that were found lying next to JonBenet and dumped those along with JonBenet into the wine-cellar.
So now its time to construct the ransom note which will justify dialling 911 and report a missing person. This is what it was intended to achieve.
There are two main elements to the staging:
1. Wine-Cellar.
2. Ransom Note.
Both combine to enact an Abduction Scenario. This was successful, nobody has been convicted and nobody knows much of what took place that night, precisely because the staging obsfucated the forensic evidence.
So most amateur sleuths fill in the gaps left by the staging with their own hunches and conjecture, some is correct, mostly its simply guesswork.
.
I've done the research, BOESP. Can't find a single hole. What people call "holes" are often "unfounded, illogical theories" of their own.
OpenMind4U
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Are you saying that people who doesn't agree with DocG theory didn't do the research or/and not capable to have the logical, founded theory on their own??!!! .....:what:
Sounds familiar: 'whoever is not with us - he/she against us!'...:banghead:
Asking others to "prove me wrong," which is what docg and Chrishope have asked, violates one of the first premises of logical theories.
I am happy though that you understand docg's usage of "holes."
Whaleshark
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Sandover, did you see my question to DocG above regarding the ransom note handwriting and Patsy recognizing it or not?
If you missed it, would you mind reading it, and let me know your thoughts on it?
Haven't got a response from DocG yet, but afraid it might get looked over or go unnoticed....
I've wondered about this. If PR wrote the note, JR should have recognized the writing and vice versa. I've also wondered why the note wasn't written in print, or typed, or as dramatic as it all was, why weren't the letters cut from magazines and glued on? This isn't really a hole in the JR theory, but it is something to consider...PR said it was her idea to call 911, while JR says it was his. Well, in an interview, BR backed up JR's version, and said he overheard his parents talking and it was his dad who said the cops needed to be called. For the JR theory to hold up, we have to assume that BR was lying, and to tell you the truth, that's when theories start getting into trouble. I've read all kinds of detailed theories, about what led to this and what happened next, but really, in the 911 situation, there's not much room for speculation, because BR backed up his father, not his mother. moo
Whaleshark
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...I already read your blog.... I have been an open proponent to your theory...
But basically, you are saying Patsy didn't recognize his handwriting, and/or didn't want to, but we do...
Just wanted your reasoning on that....
However, I do think some could see a significant hole with this..
...just saying.
But basically, you are saying Patsy didn't recognize his handwriting, and/or didn't want to, but we do...
Just wanted your reasoning on that....
However, I do think some could see a significant hole with this..
...just saying.
OpenMind4U
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In another word, you think that RN was written before the strangulation, right?
When have I asked anyone to prove me wrong?
You keep misunderstanding, and I'm not sure why. No one is saying that it was secondary transfer. We are saying there is no way to tell. It could be primary, or it could be secondary. With no way to tell, PR's fiber evidence is inconclusive.
Again I'll ask you if you know of a way to determine whether the fibers were transferred by primary or secondary contact, please share that with us.
The evidence is not being tailored. We are simply pointing out that the red jacket fibers are inconclusive.
You keep misunderstanding, and I'm not sure why. No one is saying that it was secondary transfer. We are saying there is no way to tell. It could be primary, or it could be secondary. With no way to tell, PR's fiber evidence is inconclusive.
Again I'll ask you if you know of a way to determine whether the fibers were transferred by primary or secondary contact, please share that with us.
The evidence is not being tailored. We are simply pointing out that the red jacket fibers are inconclusive.
You keep misunderstanding, and I'm not sure why. No one is saying that it was secondary transfer. We are saying there is no way to tell. It could be primary, or it could be secondary. With no way to tell, PR's fiber evidence is inconclusive.
Again I'll ask you if you know of a way to determine whether the fibers were transferred by primary or secondary contact, please share that with us.
The evidence is not being tailored. We are simply pointing out that the red jacket fibers are inconclusive.