British student murdered in Perugia, 3 suspects

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Wow, all I'm hearing on this thread since the verdict is "poor Amanda" and "how can we get her sentence shortened?" Uh, what about Meredith, you know, the victim of a horrible, slow murder?

I also wonder if pro-Amanda posters' opinions of her would be different if Meredith had been American too.

Amanda is guilty, so is her boyfriend. The Italian justice system works just fine. Everyone is saying it sucks because they're used to the American justice system. Of course you like what is familiar and what you are used to. But the American way is not the only way, and the Italian justice system has been working just fine, and for many more years than America has been in existence.

Justice for Meredith was served tonight. I'm pleased.

BBM

I'm just not sure it has. I think they're probably guilty, and if so, 25 or 26 years, or 30 in Guede's case, is IMO not enough if they really committed this heinous crime. Whoever all did this deserves LIFE in prison, so I am surprised that they weren't sentenced as such. Not sure how old Guede is, but RS and AK are very young and though 25 or 26 years is a substantial jail sentence, they can still get out in their late 40s or early 50s. Meredith doesn't get to come back to life ever. I know if they stay in jail all that time they will have "lost" their youth and will probably have a difficult time readjusting to life on the outside again, but at least they will get that chance.
 
I've been following this crime since day one when it was posted at Steve Huff's blog. We had an international group of commenters following this crime back then. I'm very happy w/ the verdict. The Italians arrived at the correct conclusion. Justice was served.
 
Yes, the mafia is from Italy and has been prevalent there over the years, as it has been here. But to say the Italian justice system has not attempted to control the problem the best they can (with the evidence available) and prosecute those responsible for mafia crimes is just not true. After the Ciaculli massacre, in 1963, right around the time of what is considered to be the 'first big mafia war' when a bunch of policemen were killed trying to defuse a car bomb actually meant for another mobster, almost 2000 mafioso were arrested, charged and convicted of thousands of crimes. Then in 1967 there was the huge trial of mafioso which centered on their involvement in the heroin trade (though admittedly evidence was very thin and all were acquitted). More recently there was the Maxi trial, in the mid 80s, which resulted in over 300 convictions of mafioso. Heck, in the 1920s Mussolini sent one of his top commanders to Sicily to combat the problems with the mafia, and the guy he sent was known for his tough-as-nails, iron-fisted tactics against mafioso. And these are only a couple of examples.

Just because the mafia came from Italy does NOT mean the Italian officials have just allowed the violence and racketeering to go on - the Italian government, over the years, has spent a mint trying to combat these criminals. No, they haven't 'solved' the problem yet, but has America 'solved' the drug problem here? No. That doesn't mean America isn't trying to fight it as best they can though. (Not that I believe the drug war does any good at all, and I'm for legalization/non-criminalization, but that's another story and entirely off-topic).

Finally, to compare the problem of the mafioso to Amanda Knox being convicted is ludicrous. One is a very sophisticated, clandestine group of very organized criminals with a wealth of money at their hands, the other a young female who murdered her roommate. Though they are/were, I guess, both dealt with by Italy's justice system, it makes no sense to say BECAUSE Italy's justice system has not been successful in eradicating the mafia THEN that same justice system must be entirely incompetent when trying Amanda Knox in the murder of Meredith Kercher.

ETA: Where are all the people sticking up for the boyfriend Sollecito? He's a young person just starting out in life, just like Amanda. Where's the sympathy for him? Oh wait, there is none, because he's not American. If Amanda was "railroaded" because she is American, that means Italy "railroaded" Sollecito...why? Because he's Italian? Really?

The Italians are wonderful people, Italy an amazing Country. The justice system there is different and unfamiliar to Americans. Justice was most probably served here...except I would rather have heard life in prison.

The Mafia as a crime syndicate is prevalant in America as in Italy. Both countries are having difficulty ending their crimes. The Mafia is as much an Amercian institution now as an Italian one....we pretty much share the issue equally.
 
Well I sure hope the US Govt doesn't go messing about here

the 2 women in North Korea were accused of spying, they were reporters, it was political...this case is NOT political

I think the Italians got the verdict right...I am only sorry they were so generous in giving a pretty lenient prison term instead of life in prison

If her parents want to pursue more appeals...fine...let them pony up the money

I personally don't want to see a single penny of our tax dollars used here, JMO
this is not a political/state dept type deal...this is a crime, just as if an Italian came here and killed someone, it would not be a diplomatic matter UNLESS they had diplomatic status

and Foxy Knoxy was NO diplomat
 
And the irony is that Europeans can be just as racist! I'm thinking of, oh, I don't know...Spanish football fans who black up & heckle Afro-Caribbean players on several occasions. I'm thinking of, oh, say Jean-Marie le Pen & his National Front or the British National Party (BNP). And let me not forget co-workers who use terms like 'Paki' or 'Chinky'...UGH!!!!! :furious:

I could go on, but you get the picture.

Just because there are no Jim Crow laws, etc, doesn't mean that racist and stereotypical behaviours aren't rampant, and that's true for any country. Europe isn't always the enlightened utopia it likes to make itself out to be. And I'm saying this as an American ex-pat living in the UK, btw.

However, having said that, I am not disagreeing with you. Just pointing out my personal observations over the past several years.

And what about the virulent anti-Semitism, mainly in Central Europe, that made it easy for Hitler to carry out his evil plan; and even when WWII ended, after 6 million or more people were slaughtered in concentration camps, the citizens of these countries still were killing the Jews who managed to survive, and making life difficult for them. From what I understand, this attitude still exists today (to some extent).
 
I realize we only saw a tiny portion of AK's statement before the jury went to deliberate, but I found the piece we did see incredibly odd. The whole bit about "people wonder how I cope," and her concern about being forced to wear the mask of a murderer. I understand that's she's fighting for her life so her thoughts are on her own survival, but... The intense "me" focus was really off-putting in that context.

I can't understand why she hasn't been advised better. The way she dressed throughout the trial, the constant smiling for the cameras... This stuff doesn't make her guilty, but I think it really hurt her. It is reminiscent of Casey Anthony in that I watch her behavior and think, how can you ACT better? Sarah Johnson (I may have the name wrong) who killed her parents in Idaho a couple years back is another example. The funeral plans were cramping her style, etc. It's striking how different the behavior of these women is from, say, Susan Smith who didn't give an Oscar caliber performance but at least went through the motions of emulating appropriate behavior.
 
Wow, all I'm hearing on this thread since the verdict is "poor Amanda" and "how can we get her sentence shortened?" Uh, what about Meredith, you know, the victim of a horrible, slow murder?

I beg to differ. I think the majority of people here are pleased with the verdict. I don't think it's about "how can we get her sentence shortened", I thinks a simple "can it be shortened".

It doesn't matter to me the nationality of the victim, the accused, the lamblasted....I don't think she's guilty of murder and I stand by my opinion. :)
 
I beg to differ. I think the majority of people here are pleased with the verdict. I don't think it's about "how can we get her sentence shortened", I thinks a simple "can it be shortened".

It doesn't matter to me the nationality of the victim, the accused, the lamblasted....I don't think she's guilty of murder and I stand by my opinion. :)

I don't think we will ever know just exactly who killed Meredith, who's to say they did not take turns stabbing her.

Foxnews.com is reporting that Amanda and Raf are under suicide watch.
 
First, I know very little too nothing about this case. But I have questions about the snippets I've seen.

1) They convicted three people for the death, correct?

2) Who / which do they believe actually commited the murder?

3) What were the rolls of the non-murderers?

4) In the Italian court system, is the judge part of the jury?

5) Does the jury have to be unanimous?

6) Who decide the sentence?

TIA
 
I also think that the reason why many people think she's innocent is because she may have not been the one who delivered the fatal blow to Meredith, therefore, if she did not actually murder Meredith then she can not possibly be guilty and also the DNA evidence that everyone claims is not there.
 
First, I know very little too nothing about this case. But I have questions about the snippets I've seen.

1) They convicted three people for the death, correct?

2) Who / which do they believe actually commited the murder?

3) What were the rolls of the non-murderers?

4) In the Italian court system, is the judge part of the jury?

5) Does the jury have to be unanimous?

6) Who decide the sentence?

TIA

1. Rudy was sentenced to 30 years (speedy trial), Raf 25 years and Amanda 26 years.

2. I don't think we will ever know who delivered the fatal blow to Meredith, they could have very well taken turns stabbing her. there has to be more than one murder weapon because how does one explain Amanda's DNA on the knife handle? and her DNA only with Meredith's on the tip?.

3 ???? (someone else can explain better than I can)

4. the Judge(s) are a part of the jury

5. yes, it is a majority vote

6. I assume the Judge does but i'm not sure.
 
I also think that the reason why many people think she's innocent is because she may have not been the one who delivered the fatal blow to Meredith, therefore, if she did not actually murder Meredith then she can not possibly be guilty and also the DNA evidence that everyone claims is not there.

??? Here in the us a murder committed with/as result of another felony is muder...that is why the getaway driver is charged with murder..that is why when 3 thieves go in a store to rob and one shoots a gun all 3 are charged with murder

the sexual rape/abuse is a felony...and a murder was committed

all -- found guilty

good job Italy :)
 
I beg to differ. I think the majority of people here are pleased with the verdict. I don't think it's about "how can we get her sentence shortened", I thinks a simple "can it be shortened".

It doesn't matter to me the nationality of the victim, the accused, the lamblasted....I don't think she's guilty of murder and I stand by my opinion. :)

however you have not given any really specific "points" or information about your "opinion"...

why do you think that she is "not guilty"??

any specifics??
 
Computer and crucifix: Amanda Knox's guilt will be judged in a system that is a mix of old and new

Do jurors have to find Knox guilty beyond a reasonable doubt?
Yes. The concept of proof beyond a reasonable doubt has long been a part of Italy's justice system. It was formalized and passed into law in 2006.

The court's ruling (which is not called a verdict in Italy) is made by an eight-member jury: six laymen and two professional judges. They will vote, and the majority rules. In the case of a tie, the presiding judge Giancarlo Massei gets a second vote to break the tie.

Could Knox have plea bargained? Knox maintains her innocence.
However, while not completely analogous to plea bargaining, Italy does have a similar alternative to trial, the alternative is not applicable for serious crimes, such as murder, punishable by more than five years in prison.

Will Knox be compensated for time spent in jail?
Knox gets credit for time served. Defendants who choose to pay the compensation set by the sentence may also be eligible for lower sentences.

Why does the figure of prosecutor seem so powerful in Italy?
The prosecutor is a powerful figure in Italy connected to the judiciary, not elected or appointed. In Italy, protections were put in place precisely to prevent the state from pursuing or persecuting, hence the independence of prosecutors.

Another major difference: the prosecutor supervises the investigation rather than letting police handle it.

Further, he or she also has no discretion over the decision to seek charges. There is a constitutional principle of mandatory prosecution. If there is sufficient evidence to build a case against a defendant, a prosecutor must seek an indictment.

Was it legal for Knox not to have an attorney present when police questioned her? Yes and no.
Amanda Knox's interrogation falls into a gray area of the law because she came voluntarily to the police station and was being interviewed in the beginning as someone who could become be a witness, not a suspect.

Then, in the course of questioning by police in November 2007, she blamed Patrick Lumumba for the slaying, and said she was present at the scene of the crime. Lumumba was innocent. Knox has since denied she knows anything about the slaying and says she wasn't in the flat the night Kercher was killed. Lumumba is suing Knox for slander.

The law is very clear: A suspect must not be interrogated without a lawyer.

In Knox's case, a video or audio recording of the entire police interrogation -- authorities have denied that any such recordings exist -- could identify when police began treating Knox as a suspect and what procedures were followed.

How long could this case continue after the verdict?
Potentially (but not likely) seven to eight years. Knox could be jailed for up to six years as the case moves from Court of Assize to Appeals to Court of Cassation.

Does Italy have the death penalty?
No. The harshest penalty is life imprisonment with solitary confinement
In Italy, those convicted often serve less time than their sentences since the system offers ample reward for good behavior. A 21-year-sentence (the minimum sentence for a murder conviction) may result, for example, in only 12years behind bars.

http://www.seattlepi.com/local/412696_knox30.html
 
however you have not given any really specific "points" or information about your "opinion"...

why do you think that she is "not guilty"??

any specifics??

As I have said earlier, I am choosing to keep my reasons to myself as I do not wish to get into a war of words nor do I feel like being attacked. :) I haven't said she's not guilty of SOMETHING, I just don't think she's guilty of murder.
 
I've kept out of this because I haven't followed this case very carefully. However, the part I bolded made me come out of "lurk" mode. How can you say the Italian justice system has been working just fine? Have you forgotten the Mafia, or whatever they call it in Italy? I believe organized crime in that country even killed politicians and LE to keep themselves in business, no? I don't believe for one minute the Italian justice system works just fine in Italy and since I live close to Philadelphia, PA, I'm not even sure it's working just "fine" there - although I believe it's better than it was a few years ago when some mafioso got shot in the azz 'cause the perp was a very bad shot.

My opinion only
I have followed this case closely and agree with you and others who think Amanda got screwed. Actually screwed is not even the word for it…this is her life we are talking about. I have felt all along this would be the end result and yes, I am angry at her parents as well to let this go on all this time “thinking that there would be any other outcome.”

If it had been a Middle Eastern country rather than Italy – would people view it differently?
 
so does Amanda only get to stay in jail for 2 years? or am I missing something?
By Marc Ramirez
Seattle Times staff reporter
Amanda Knox will be in prison for up to two years while attorneys appeal her conviction, a process that will not begin for at least 90 days, Italian attorney Alessandro Canali said.
Lawyers for Knox and Raffaele Sollecito, her former boyfriend, both found guilty of murdering roommate Meredith Kercher, will have just 45 days to file an appeal after a side judge in the just-concluded trial publishes the court's decision. Judges take about three months to do so, but can request more time.
An Italian appeals trial is conducted the same as the first, complete with jury. More evidence can be presented or requested.
A newly appointed prosecutor could ask for acquittal. "The prosecutor on appeal is not bound by the actions of the prosecutor in the first case," said Canali, a foreign law consultant in Seattle who practices law in Rome.
Knox's 26-year sentence was actually a good sign, he said, considering prosecutors asked for life imprisonment.
In contrast, he noted, Rudy Guede — found guilty of murdering and sexually assaulting Kercher — opted for a "fast-track" trial, which defendants who believe they will be convicted choose in exchange for a sentence one-third of the maximum.
"She got four years less without the benefit of the short trial," he said. So really, "she got 50 years less. Someone on the jury thought she was not on the same level as Guede."
more at link: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2010428769_webknoxappeal05m.html

Sorry I am late to this case and am confused about a few things.

1. Are there any links to the testimony of the person who has previously been charged and convicted as to what he says about Amanda and her b/f's involvement or can someone just catch me up on what he said.

2. Any info on Amanda's boss. He has been cleared but wondering what his take on Amanda was. Did he think she did it?

3. Do Meredith's parents think these two are guilty?

Thanks!!!!

Think I read that: 2. her boss- Patrick Lumumba- the guy she tried to frame said she did it because he fired her for flirting too much with customers and he was considering hiring Meredith.
3. Meredith's parents believed Amanda did it and justice was served.
 
I wonder what the numbers were for the verdict. I mean, it's majority vote, so how many voted guilty, how many voted innocent.

I wish it had to be unanimous like it is here.
 
IMO....AK never had a chance. The italian authorities were determined to lay this at her feet. Sorry, Amanda, that's what you get when you live in another country.....:(
WRONG,,,,,:) Sorry, it happens here too when someone comes out after 15-20 years + only because they made a mistake and either DNA testing or someone willing to re look at the evidence is able to find that an innocent person is imprisoned.

It it possible that it is an unfair verdict, don't know, did not follow the case.

I also do not understand why we are all comparing US law to to another Country. What is fair Punishment ?
what if their Law says that all the people in the room, and in the get away car (assuming there is one) are ALL guilty? and all get same punishment.
I sure don't know US law let alone Italian Law :waitasec:
 
Isabella said "some" Americans take the position that she was railroaded. Also, I think she stated she was reading other boards which were lambasting Italy for it's decision. I don't think she's directing her comments to all Americans or to everyone on this board.

Bottom line, however, we Americans have the reputation around the world as a racist nation. Modern Europeans were very appalled and confused by segregation/Jim Crow laws, the images of civil rights protesters being hosed by LE, etc.. So, that has shaped their sentiment.
On going news about the KKK, hate crimes, Susan Smith type incidents, that kind of thing, helps shape European's views, rightly or wrongly, that we would rather have some black guy accused than a young white girl from the U.S..
Add to that a reputation for arrogance and imperialist zeal that we have in other countries and it makes sense why people in other nations believe we would refuse to accept the ruling of any foreign government on an American's guilt or innocence, regardless of evidence. I can't speak for Isabella and am not trying to but I can see the what people in other countries view as the motivation behind American protests of AK's innocence.

Good post :)

What annoyed me today was Amandas Senator saying he wants to talk to Hilary because he/she thinks the verdict was reached because the Italians are against Americans and yet her co-accused was an Italian. IMO they are just stirring up racial hatred against the Italians :(
 
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