CANADA Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #1

Missizzy said:

Does anyone know with certainty whether there is a basement in that home? I've read that it's an A-frame but that's all I know.

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respectfully snipped by me

I made these screenshots from video clips to help us a bit with the layout of Audrey's house. I noticed that there are no views from what appears to me is the main entrance of the home. I have no idea why there is plastic covering those sliding doors (drafty window perhaps?)
(will take 2 posts in order to upload all pictures)
Hope this helps

Pic 8
source for Pics 5, 6, 7 : http://swo.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20110105/gleave-memorial-murder-110105/20110105/?hub=SWOHome

Thanks for all the pics Hazel.

JMO, but doesn't look to me like the house has a basement. There are no basement windows visible, and I would expect the concrete to be somewhat more above ground if there was a basement. To me, it looks like a crawl space with a vent (there are usually at least two vents in order to get cross ventilation).

Couple of mild observations ... in one of the overhead pics, there appears to be the roof of a shed or something in a clump of trees, where the white vehicles are parked and the paved drive ends.

The "main entrance" faces the pond, but I don't see a walkway going toward the front, so am wondering how most folks arrived at the house. Also, from the front of the house, that appears to be a second-floor balcony just over the front entrance.

This was a woman who lived alone with two reportedly vicious dogs. If it is true that the dogs were normally confined in a certain location within the home, it seems to me the perp is someone who knew precisely where those dogs would be when they entered Audrey's home, whether they entered by a door or otherwise. If the perp(s) was a stranger, IMO when the dogs started to make a fuss, i'm sure the perp would have gone elsewhere, not knowing the dogs were confined and therefore no threat.

no problem SB and am very glad to see you in this thread

Video clip were I got Pics 1, 2, 3, 4, 8, 9 - I believe this video hasn't been posted before. Contains other pictures of Audrey that we haven't seen. Also the 'handyman' looks so much younger in here.

here is the link: http://www.chchnews.ca/index.php/home/item/1669

Thanks for the great pics Hazel!
A couple of random thoughts, after looking at the photos - would those be "wood drakes" stitched on AG's blue coat?
I wonder if that very large (engagement?) ring, is the one her ex,nicknamed "FF",gave her and if that ring was still on AG's finger when she was found?
Could this be a "hate" crime?

Very very helpful. I just sent them to my husband who is a home builder. I'm really hopeful that he can answer as I sure can't. I agree with Billy in that it seems that there should be concrete visible above ground but I'm still curious. FWIW, I had read that the house was an A-frame. This is not what most Americans refer to as an A-frame. We'd call it a mid 70's ranch with low-pitched roof. It doesn't look to me as if the garage could be heated and I have a hard time believing that Ms. Gleave would leave her dogs in an unheated garage in such cold temps. But they are shepherds. My experience is with small dogs.

Interesting that the photos don't show the bench where she sat with friends. In fact, I see very little "accessories" or lawn furniture of any kind. Possibly things like that are packed up for the winter. No firewood that I can see. It's quite clear, after looking at the photos that dogs barking or cries of help would most likely not be heard by neighbors. I still wonder why they towed her Camaro in for inspection.

Thank you Hazel.

Hate crime, in what respect, dotr? Am I missing something? I live way up on top of a mountain and can't watch video on my computer so I'm at a loss here.

While I'm waiting on my "consultant", I wanted to point out that the house seems extremely well kept and uncluttered. I realize that hoarders can keep things contained inside but the single one I've had contact with, things spilled out of every entrance to the home and out of the garage.

I have a few questions about Audrey:

Was she always heavy-set or had she been thinner in the past and did she ever dye her hair? I ask this because there is only one AG on FB, set to private, and it has similarities to our Audrey (okay, it's a bit of a push, but that's why i'm asking the questions).

Did Audrey every attend church? I ask this because firstly, as a physics teacher, she had a scientific type of brain, and didn't strike me as a "religious" person. Secondly, references about Audrey's emails indicate that they were mostly jokes, wit, etc, as compared to personal ... but her last email apparently contained a link to "Amazing Grace" (a hymn that usually signifies deep emotion and loss). Given the time of year, i would have thought a somewhat happy rendition of "Auld Lang Syne" might have been more appropo.

There's a woman with the same name in New England who is in her late 50s. Hope that helps.

Concerning the choice of holiday music, my guess is that Ms. Gleave picked up on social clues from others. She might have truly enjoyed that piece but she could have also known that her friends did. JMO.

Missizzy said:

Hate crime, in what respect, dotr? Am I missing something? I live way up on top of a mountain and can't watch video on my computer so I'm at a loss here.

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_crime

sillybilly said:

I have a few questions about Audrey:

Was she always heavy-set or had she been thinner in the past and did she ever dye her hair? I ask this because there is only one AG on FB, set to private, and it has similarities to our Audrey (okay, it's a bit of a push, but that's why i'm asking the questions).

Did Audrey every attend church? I ask this because firstly, as a physics teacher, she had a scientific type of brain, and didn't strike me as a "religious" person. Secondly, references about Audrey's emails indicate that they were mostly jokes, wit, etc, as compared to personal ... but her last email apparently contained a link to "Amazing Grace" (a hymn that usually signifies deep emotion and loss). Given the time of year, i would have thought a somewhat happy rendition of "Auld Lang Syne" might have been more appropo.

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SB, there are pics of Audrey when she was a teacher somewhere in this thread, she was thinner back then, and also looked taller. Also a student described her as red hair, red lipstick, red nails, high heels (flashy). There is also a video where the reporters are interviewing her hairdresser. In all of the most current pictures of her, her hair looks "salt and pepper". I also recall reading that her ex (FF) said, you could say one of her hobbies was cooking; someone else refers to her as a "foody" person, others that she liked to talk and share recipes.

Sorry can't provide you with all the links, but everything is here in the thread.

I totally agree with your second paragraph.

Editing to add this link which contains many photographs - you can either:
- click on first picture under "Recently Shared Photos" (right hand side of page) or
- select "Memories" > "Photographic Memories" from the menu

BOOK OF MEMORIES = Audrey Gleave's Photos http://beckettglaves.frontrunnerpro.com/runtime/8242/runtime.php?SiteId=8242&NavigatorId=78497&op=moreinfo&viewOpt=dpaneOnly&ItemId=619536&LinkId=220

The builder guy has spoken. He said it looks to be under-house access. He said that he's actually surprised that there isn't a basement given the climate in the area. He also pointed out that homes built in the mid-70s were notorious for cutting corners as construction costs were so high at the time.

That's when we started building and I do remember that fact. The majority of mid-70s homes aren't aging too gracefully. They also weren't terribly energy efficient. That might be why there's plastic over some of the windows. Plastic doesn't seem like it would sufficient to help much, though, in those winters. Another reason to consider the possibility that she might have only heated a small part of the house. As I said upthread, she might have gone outside to smoke and the killer followed her back inside. The dogs must have been locked (that probably just means a door was closed) in a separate room and unable to get to her to help.

My mother lived alone in Texas for a year after my father passed and it was quite something to get to her living area. You had to go in a front door, through a freezing cold living room and dining room, through two doors, and then you came to her kitchen, which she kept heated and used as a living quarters. I think that's actually quite common for people who live alone and who want to conserve energy.


ETA: He just added that in being underhouse access, it is possible that someone could keep dogs in there. He said that in most, a man cannot stand up and it's not typically weatherized. I think he's spent a good deal of time in such spaces.

Hmm, I don't know Missizzy, but we are talking Canadian winter, not Texas winter

I mean, wouldn't the pipes burst if only a portion of the house is heated?

I guess a hate crime is certainly a possibility. We don't have any clear knowledge as to her heritage, religion, or sexual orientation. We've surmised that she's possibly of Lithuanian or Latvian heritage, given her maiden name. I brought up the possibility of her family being Jewish and thus emigrating to Canada where she was born in 1937.

She's an interesting woman as she seems to have both male and female friends and also related well to her young employee. She was married for seven years and I've read nothing that lists a bereaved partner. In Ancaster, would she suffer discrimination if she happened to be lesbian? I've gotten the impression that her friends were friends and nothing more but I sure could be wrong.

A horrid thought.

I would think that they'd have to be heavily wrapped. To my eye, as a contractor's wife, the house looks a bit out of place for where it's built. It gets well below 0 in that area and plastic on the windows seems strange to me. That's far more like Texas or elsewhere in the south where they get occasional cold snaps. Most people back east have storm windows if the house is older, don't they?

in the first article posted on this thread, a former student mentions audrey referring to her dogs as her "children". imo, i doubt she would keep her dogs under the house, most likely; especially being that she lived alone, her dogs would live with her in her living quarters. she likely had the dogs for companionship and also protection. they were like children to her, to qoute her, qouted by a student. the dogs were barking wildly around 2:30am:

"“I don’t remember many teachers from my high school years … but I remember her,” said one of Gleave’s former Westdale students, Sarah, who did not want to give her last name.

Sarah, 34, was in Gleave’s Grade 9 science class at Westdale about 20 years ago. She recalled her teacher had a sense of humour, would call her puppies her babies and referred to the picture of Albert Einstein in their classroom as her boyfriend."

http://www.thespec.com/news/crime/article/307949--vicious-homicide-leaves-retired-teacher-dead

refering to her pups as her "babies" truth said in jest. i would imagine an older woman living alone would rely on her 2 sheppards.

as someone had mentioned, i think it likely she had went outside and the dogs were inside the house.
would someone have attempted to lure her outside somehow?

le says they don't think she knew her attacker, yet it's likely her attacker knew some things about her. if he was wanting to target a woman who lived alone, he would have had to observe her somewhat to know that she'd be alone in the house.
she didn't seen to be a social butterfly, although her students seemed to like her. would it be possible a former student did this crime?

missizzy where did you get the impression audrey was a lesbian?
she sounds more like just a private type person. maybe she never married again after her first husband since she just didn't want to get involved again

Audrey's Memorial Webcast

http://beckettglaves.frontrunnerpro.com/runtime/8242/runtime.php?SiteId=8242&NavigatorId=78497&ItemId=619536&viewOpt=dpaneOnly&op=tributeserviceVideo&EventId=527

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more about Audrey:

(snips from JH's condolences - dated Jan. 10th)
- Audrey's nickname: baryon (she was surprised when she was told her nickname is a subatomic particle)
- A. took a Web Design course at Mohawk College (2003)
- apparently A. was very upset when her e-mail addy was not deleted when her e-mails containing jokes, etc. were forwarded to other people.
- A. had bad legs
- A. had a quick mind

(from CK's condolences - dated Jan. 5th)
- A. had an infectious smile and laugh
- A. made this friend (CK) feel welcomed in her home.

It's odd that her best friend LV was inside Audrey's home only once.

I am now wondering how it was she delivered the soup. Did she go all the way there and just handled the soup at the door? I thought it was homemade soup, but perhaps it was a bag with canned soup?

Condolences: http://beckettglaves.frontrunnerpro.com/runtime/8242/runtime.php?SiteId=8242&NavigatorId=78497&op=tributeCondolenceView&viewOpt=dpaneOnly&ItemId=619536&LinkId=224

So, she was also a high school girls' athletic coach, it seems, as shown in her remembrance photos.

I noticed that even in recent photos, she's still wearing make-up and lipstick. And looking awfully proud next to that car.

Could this be the work of a former student who had a grudge of some sort against her?

I was merely responding to the comment of this possibly being a hate crime. Wiki defines a hate crime as pertaining to:

"....racial group, religion, sexual orientation, disability, class, ethnicity, nationality, age, gender, gender identity, social status or political affiliation...."


Being that her racial group, disability, class, social status, age, gender, nationality and political affiliation didn't seem to fit the crime, all that is left is her religion, ethnicity, sexual orientation and gender identity. Certainly anytime a person is sexually assaulted, as Ms. Gleave was, an argument could be made for a hate crime.

I live in Ashland, OR where it is extremely common to be openly gay. A number of our teachers and pastors are. I've gotten the sense that Ancaster is a welcoming community. Am I mistaken?



And a correction. I know there could be a reporting error, but the news reports are quite clear that it was neighbors' dogs which barked at 2:30 am on Dec. 29th.

http://www.thespec.com/news/crime/article/307949--police-investigating-ancaster-area-homicide

"But the Fs’ dogs suddenly began barking wildly around 2:30 a.m. Wednesday...."

I noted that her date of death is given as December 30, 2010--the day her employee found her body.

Also, I fully understand about her devotion to her dogs. I have eight and am committed to them. I've found it odd, however, that she didn't seem to socialize them or have total control over them. Even her dearest friend, LV, commented that she watched them carefully when she and Ms. Gleave would visit on a bench near the house. She's obviously had many dear animals as there was the comment that many were buried at the Ancaster Pet Cemetery, where she wished to be buried. FWIW, I refer to my "pack" as my puppies even though many are elders.