The Springfield Three--missing since June 1992 - #5

For some reason I had it in my mind that there was an overnight bag but in rereading some older threads apparently there was not. (So my post #310 is inaccurate) So we have to conclude that her make-up, her medication and other personal effects were in her purse which was left behind.

I'm sure this was asked and answered previously but wouldn't she logically have had a change of clothing either in her car or in an overnight bag that was not in evidence? She had been out all night and I would think she would not wish to put on soiled clothing, underwear and the like after leaving Branson. If on the other hand, she did have an overnight bag that was inspected and the bathing suit cast aside, one wonders what might have been in the bag, if it existed at all.

Just seems a little odd to me. When I go to the gym to do a workout I carry along a change of underwear as perspiration becomes uncomfortable. This occurred in June and the temperatures must have been in the 80s or so and I would think she would want to change into clean clothing and underwear. I don't know what, if anything, this tells us.

Ah, yes, there was Suzie's overnight bag, according to this article:

Bookout took a walk through the home, Janis at his side. They went into Suzie's room, where pictures of famous blondes hung on the wall and seven oversized stuffed animals were scattered across the floor. Two slats in the window blinds had been separated, as if someone was looking out. 

The three women's purses were all together, Stacy's sitting on Suzie's overnight bag.


Click to expand...

http://http://www.news-leader.com/article/20020607/NEWS01/60608051/Three-Missing-Women-Ten-Years-Later-Part-3-5

I had written that Janis McCall said Stacy had a bag, but I can't find such a reference and think I was---arrgghh--mistaken. Janis talked about letting Stacy wonder where her cars and clothes were, which is something of an ambiguous statement. Was she referring to the clothed found in Suzie's room (what she had worn that night?) or to clothes packed for overnight (PJs, clothes for the water slide trip?) If she left a swimsuit behind, what was it carried in? We don't know what was in either girl's car--a quick trip out to get a toothbrush might have resulted in making one girl vulnerable or leaving the door unlocked.

I have heard a lot about body language over the years and while I agree that body language CAN be a tool to detect deception, I don't believe that it is accurate enough to be used in this manner. IMO, I think that it could be more accurately used with my 12 year old than an adult with many years of baggage.

I went to SMSU to get a degree in psychology, and during those years, I learned that many of the things that people do unconsciously are aspects of defense mechanisms and learned behavior. I believe that a person's body language may just be the way they handle stressful situations and sometimes this body language may appear to be deceptive, but in many instances that is not the case at all. That is why it is not admissible in court and neither is a polygraph.

I think that everyone involved in this case probably feels that they need to defend and protect themselves after all of the finger pointing and scrutiny for the past 20 years. This desire would most definitely show up in their body language.

pittsburghgirl said:

And yet they walked right in.

Click to expand...

I still don't think this is a big deal. I would have done the same thing if it looked like my friends were there, but just not answering the door.

CaliMama said:

I have heard a lot about body language over the years and while I agree that body language CAN be a tool to detect deception, I don't believe that it is accurate enough to be used in this manner. IMO, I think that it could be more accurately used with my 12 year old than an adult with many years of baggage.

I went to SMSU to get a degree in psychology, and during those years, I learned that many of the things that people do unconsciously are aspects of defense mechanisms and learned behavior. I believe that a person's body language may just be the way they handle stressful situations and sometimes this body language may appear to be deceptive, and in many instances that is not the case at all. That is why it is not admissible in court and neither is a polygraph.

I think that everyone involved in this case probably feels that they need to defend and protect themselves after all of the finger pointing and scrutiny for the past 20 years. This desire would most definitely show up in their body language.

Click to expand...

I agree with you about body language. I have often seen these "experts" show how people are supposedly deceptive by their hands held over their mouths or looking down or this or that and it may be that they are contemplating their answers. It could be that they are trying to hide something but as you say, polygraphs are not admissible because they are not reliable. At best they are an indicator. And so it is with body language.

What I find most interesting (or irritating) about people is when they won't address a direct question. That drives me up the wall. It is one thing to not remember something; but it is quite another when someone evades answering a question. Just recently, I asked someone connected to this case a direct question and was met with evasion. To me that speaks volumes.

There is also the matter of projection when one wants to lay the blame for his or her problems on others by giving the same or similar motives to the person they feel hostility toward. They never seem to want to accept personal responsibility.

Missouri Mule said:

This excerpt seems contradictory to the "Disappeared" episode. As I recall, Jannelle said she had never been to the Levitt home, prior to June 7. 1992. (I stand to be corrected.) How is it that she would have known anything definitive about Sherrill cleaning something up?

"We cleaned it up because we knew Sherrill wouldn't want it that way," Kirby said. "Normally, the second it broke she would have cleaned it up. "

Perhaps she is going on what Suzie had said to her of Sherrill's habits. It may mean nothing.

I may be making a mountain out of a molehill but it is what appear to be minor details which are not consistent which cast doubt of the veracity of witnesses. I'm not sure what to make of Jannelle. Perhaps this is why multiple questioning of Jannelle was conducted by the SPD.

As to the account of the fraternity, I hope the SPD are availing themselves of this information and pursue such an angle if in fact they don't know already who the perp(s) were. It has the ring of truth and harkens back to the days when some guys would keep count of the number of women they had seduced. And that was about the time of the "date rape drugs" culture which many young women were assaulted without their knowledge.

Click to expand...

I thought that the Disappeared episode stated that Sherill had just downsized from a larger home that was near the neighborhood that SM and JK lived in? She had moved to the home on Delmar in Feb, so I thought when JK said she had never been to the home, she meant THAT home. I might be wrong and I could have totally misinterpreted everything.

Regarding the frat situation, that happened in 1989 and some of those guys would have still been around in 1992. Lots of us went to school throughout the Summer or stayed and worked during the summer. However, something tells me that what they did (or were going to do) to us, didn't end that night. I really think that they wanted to do it again and be successful next time. I also think that if they ever succeeded, they would want to cover it up to protect the fraternity and I don't believe the girl or girls would survive.

_mb_ said:

I've never really bought this. I believe that Stacy told her mom that she and her friends were staying in a Branson hotel that night, but I don't believe that there really were plans to do so. One, good luck finding a hotel that will rent to 18 year olds. Two, somebody had to pay for that room if they didn't show up, but didn't cancel 24 hours or so in advance. If they didn't have reservations, I doubt they could have found a hotel in Branson with vacancies that night.

Click to expand...

Agreed, not to split hairs but in that era, it was possible to have 'curtesy holds' on hotel rooms. Airlines used to do the same thing, generally for twenty-four hours. In this case, say, somebody in the group 'reserved' a room, got a courtesy hold with some kind of 'comp number' but was NOT guaranteed. If they got a credit card, they could have guaranteed the room, and a call to cancel was and is generally required by 6 PM local night of check in.

I was always under the impression it was some kind of ma and pa hotel in Branson. Be it that or a chain, it's possible someone in the gang made a call early that day and made the 'curtesy hold.' Whether it was made through the 1-800 clerk or Mary Jane Glutz in the lobby of the local hotel, no later call with a credit card to firm it, no show, records purged that night, no harm/no foul. Clearly, no credit cards were charged and I doubt this gang was that together enough to call in a cancellation by the 6 PM deadline.

former central time said:

Agreed, not to split hairs but in that era, it was possible to have 'curtesy holds' on hotel rooms. Airlines used to do the same thing, generally for twenty-four hours. In this case, say, somebody in the group 'reserved' a room, got a courtesy hold with some kind of 'comp number' but was NOT guaranteed. If they got a credit card, they could have guaranteed the room, and a call to cancel was and is generally required by 6 PM local night of check in.

I was always under the impression it was some kind of ma and pa hotel in Branson. Be it that or a chain, it's possible someone in the gang made a call early that day and made the 'curtesy hold.' Whether it was made through the 1-800 clerk or Mary Jane Glutz in the lobby of the local hotel, no later call with a credit card to firm it, no show, records purged that night, no harm/no foul. Clearly, no credit cards were charged and I doubt this gang was that together enough to call in a cancellation by the 6 PM deadline.

Click to expand...

That was what I was thinking also. I grew up in a different part of Missouri, but visited Branson every summer from the age of 12 -18. There were a lot of little motels that didn't operate like big hotel chains. In 1992, they might not have had to reserve the room with a cc at all.

The actions of this group remind me of how my friends and I used to operate during those years and none of this really seems odd to me at all. The only thing I would like to know is what and/or who was it to cause Stacy and Suzie to change their plans. That might be the key to why they are no longer with us.

A few posts back, there was talk of evidence and/or lack of evidence. This what compelled me to come here and post my story of what happened to me in Springfield 1989. IF my friend and I had never been seen again after that night, the evidence would have been at a second location...a location that I can't even give you the address for. I do believe that there is a second location in this case...an apt an/or home.

monkeymann said:

Janelle stated in the Discovered Video that came out recently, that they "She and Mike" had never been to the house prior to the two of them going over there at aprox. 12:30pm on 6/7/1992.

Click to expand...

I may be reading too much into this, but how did they know where she lived? I suppose an address could be found in the phone book, but they'd just moved. From what I've seen in interviews, it doesn't seem like janelle cared much for Suzie. And, Suzie & Sherills home was in a different school district, so it seems even less likely that Janelle and/or Mike were riding around the block one day with someone who casually pointed out that Suzie lives there.

Other than kids who rode the same bus as I did or lived across the street/next door to friends/family, I really had no clue where mere acquaintances of mine in high school lived.

We need to remember that they all still lived in the same school district. Suzie didn't move clear across town. Sherill used to live in a bigger home near the neighborhood where SM and JK lived and everyone knew how to get to certain areas. If Suzie said we live at Glenstone and Delmar, everyone would know where to go.

These kids were passed riding the bus.

Missouri Mule said:

For some reason I had it in my mind that there was an overnight bag but in rereading some older threads apparently there was not. (So my post #310 is inaccurate) So we have to conclude that her make-up, her medication and other personal effects were in her purse which was left behind.

I'm sure this was asked and answered previously but wouldn't she logically have had a change of clothing either in her car or in an overnight bag that was not in evidence? She had been out all night and I would think she would not wish to put on soiled clothing, underwear and the like after leaving Branson. If on the other hand, she did have an overnight bag that was inspected and the bathing suit cast aside, one wonders what might have been in the bag, if it existed at all.

Just seems a little odd to me. When I go to the gym to do a workout I carry along a change of underwear as perspiration becomes uncomfortable. This occurred in June and the temperatures must have been in the 80s or so and I would think she would want to change into clean clothing and underwear. I don't know what, if anything, this tells us.

Click to expand...

I agree... You would think that if the plan had originally been to stay at a hotel, and if those plans only changed at aprox. 10:30pm(ish) when Stacy called her mother to inform her that they had changed plans and that she was staying at Janelles instead, you'd think that she would have already had a bag packed for the anticipated stay at the Branson Motel. I wonder if it was in the car and was just never made public as part of the investigation, or if it was taken with them for what ever reason, when they abducted the women.

monkeymann said:

I agree... You would think that if the plan had originally been to stay at a hotel, and if those plans only changed at aprox. 10:30pm(ish) when Stacy called her mother to inform her that they had changed plans and that she was staying at Janelles instead, you'd think that she would have already had a bag packed for the anticipated stay at the Branson Motel. I wonder if it was in the car and was just never made public as part of the investigation, or if it was taken with them for what ever reason, when they abducted the women.

Click to expand...

Ok. In 1992, I had just turned 21 years old. I had been going to SMSU for about 3 years. When I was 18 and still under my parent's roof, I would not have told my mom that I was going out of town to Branson just to sneak out all night long. Why? Because Branson was like an hour or so away. Why not say I am spending the night with so and so. ALL moms would be ok with that. Being a teenager, this wouldn't have been the first time that any of these girls would have wanted to pull one over on their parents. I say that the Branson trip was definitely planned. It wasn't a story to pacify parents. What I want to know is what and/or who chaged these plans...given that the plans were loosely put together in the first place...

CaliMama said:

I have heard a lot about body language over the years and while I agree that body language CAN be a tool to detect deception, I don't believe that it is accurate enough to be used in this manner. IMO, I think that it could be more accurately used with my 12 year old than an adult with many years of baggage.

I went to SMSU to get a degree in psychology, and during those years, I learned that many of the things that people do unconsciously are aspects of defense mechanisms and learned behavior. I believe that a person's body language may just be the way they handle stressful situations and sometimes this body language may appear to be deceptive, but in many instances that is not the case at all. That is why it is not admissible in court and neither is a polygraph.

I think that everyone involved in this case probably feels that they need to defend and protect themselves after all of the finger pointing and scrutiny for the past 20 years. This desire would most definitely show up in their body language.

Click to expand...

Without meaning any disrespect I totally disagree.

1.) All people utilize "Defense Mechanisms" for the sake of self preservation. Defense Mechanisms can be manifested in many ways. One way is Avoidance. One way is Aggression. One way is Denial. One way is Redirection/Displacement....and.....One way is LIEING.

2.) Comparing Kinetic Body Language Reactions is a much more reliable method of detecting deception, then the polygraph has ever been. That's why using "Body Language" in the course of interrogations is used much more to solve cases than Polygraphs. Also, Polygraphs are an "Investigative Tool", not a means to an end. Much in the same way that utilizing Body Language Analyzation is an "Investigative Tool" but in a different way. They use polygraphs to help detect deception, then they go back in and interigate the person more on the area that the polygraph showed deception in.

3.) With that said though, Body Language can tell you a lot. Your statement about it being more of a proactive tool on a 12yr old, then an adult with a lot of baggage is true in that a 12yr old may be easier to read right out of the gate. But on the contrary, Law Enforcement utilize Analyzation of Body Language as a MAJOR INVESTIGATIVE TOOL in Adults......every day!!

4.) The Conscious Mind and Subconscious mind are in a constant battle over truth and lies. The Subconscious Mind ALWAYS knows what the truth is and WILL ALWAYS fight the Conscious Mind if the Conscious Mind is trying to state something that the Subconscious Mind knows isn't true. That's where you get the Body Language from. It is the constant struggle between a person trying to force their body to convey something that their mind knows is not true.

5.) Micro Expressions are another part of Kinetic Body Language. They are more subtle reactions our body makes to things we know are lies. They can be expressed in Bodily Reactions....They can also be expressed in Verbal Slip Ups, or Tonality. They can be a "Blink" a person makes when they say a certain word....or their blink rate when a certain topic is discussed.

6.) Its not just the "ONE" expression. Or the "ONE" strange reaction. Its the totality of the reactions, that were observed.

I know you said that you studied Psychology which is respectable.....but I think you should study the area of Kinetic Body Language more....Its really much much much more than just being able to tell if the 12yr old is lying. A good investigator can spot a lie a mile away based on Kinetic Body Language. And its much harder to lie with out detection....than you think!!

CaliMama said:

Hmmm...am I the only one to notice that Bartt Streeter's post is gone?

Click to expand...

Yea...He's very quick to get Aggressive....But not so quick to answer the 15+times I've asked what his alibi was, who vouched for him, what his movements were, and who his friends were at the time....JUST so I could eliminate him once and for all, as well as get an idea of who he knew that may have had a connection to others.....Trust Me When I Say....I would love to believe that Bartt had NOTHING to do with this crime. But apparently he'd rather get aggressive with me, than answer a couple simple questions and try and help. And if he was totally eliminated as a suspect.....who does he think did it....I would think if anyone knew who his mother and sister were involved with, hung out with, extended friends were....it would be Bartt. But he won't answer any of questions and would rather just get Aggressive.

CaliMama said:

We need to remember that they all still lived in the same school district. Suzie didn't move clear across town. Sherill used to live in a bigger home near the neighborhood where SM and JK lived and everyone knew how to get to certain areas. If Suzie said we live at Glenstone and Delmar, everyone would know where to go.

These kids were passed riding the bus.

Click to expand...

In post #124 of this thread, I posted the school district information. I'm guessing that either Suzie didn't inform the district that she had moved or that they let it slide since she was close to graduation.

I agree that they were past riding the bus, and this paired with Suzie living out of district, and Janelle not really being friends with Suzie makes me question how J&M knew where the house was. I agree that if Janelle knew the cross streets that the cars in the drive would give it away, I was just saying that based on my experience, loose friends really don't keep tabs on where the other lives, especially if they just moved 3 months prior.

I find anything surrounding Bartt highly interesting. If Bartt DIDN'T DO THIS, I'm deeply sorry for every thinking it was him as his innocence would show he's been through a LOT. More than I could ever know.

But for the sake of solving this case, ruling him out would be ABSURD.

I noticed he's coming on to this site. He's closing down his blog. He's lashing out at Detective Asher (post was deleted but it is archived on Google still). I believe it was Richard who said "contrived indignation" is a dead giveaway. I don't agree with Richard (Missouri Mule) much at all, but he has a good point there.

There's some things that tell me Bartt or his friends weren't behind this either. The money mainly. But if this was NOT a SEX crime nor a GREED crime, then revenge or jealousy would be next in line. Bartt, with his drinking and erratic behavior in the months prior to June 1992 could show that as a possibility. Regardless, something unexpected happen. It's shown in the way the house was left, and the fact that the girls had just underwear and t-shirts on. Could someone have picked up Sherrill? Then was waiting for the girls to get home?

Bartt if you find this very disturbing, please, by all means, come answer some questions we have. Otherwise we're not ruling you out. I want to know where exactly you were that night and who vouched for your alibi. And I want to know what questions were asked during your polygraph.

It's also a joke that Kathee Baird hasn't publicly shared all her tips and leads on this crime. The police should give her a swift kick in the *advertiser censored* for obstruction of justice for her handling of some of this case and the parking garage nonsense.

Please Kathee, this is almost 20 years old, DO THE RIGHT THING!

monkeymann said:

Without meaning any disrespect I totally disagree.

1.) All people utilize "Defense Mechanisms" for the sake of self preservation. Defense Mechanisms can be manifested in many ways. One way is Avoidance. One way is Aggression. One way is denial. One way is redirection. One way is LIEING.

2.) Comparing Kinetic Body Language Reactions is a much more reliable method of detecting deception, then the polygraph has ever been. That's why using "Body Language" in the course of interrogations is used much more to solve cases than Polygraphs. Also, Polygraphs are an "Investigative Tool", not a means to an end. Much in the same way that utilizing Body Language Analyzation is an "Investigative Tool".


3.) With that said though, Body Language can tell you a lot. Your statement about it being more of a proactive tool on a 12yr old, then an adult with a lot of baggage is true in that a 12yr old may be easier to read right out of the gate. But on the contrary, Law Enforcement utilize Analyzation of Body Language as a MAJOR INVESTIGATIVE TOOL in Adults......every day!!

4.) The Conscious Mind and Subconscious mind are in a constant battle over truth and lies. The Subconscious Mind ALWAYS knows what the truth is and ALWAYS is fighting the Conscious Mind if the Conscious Mind is trying to state something that isn't true. That's where you get the Body Language from. It is the constant struggle between a person trying to force their body to convey something that their mind knows is not true.

5.) Micro Expressions are another part of Kinetic Body Language. They are more subtle reactions our body makes to things we know are lies. They can be expressed in Bodily Reactions....They can also be expressed in Verbal Slip Ups, or Tonality. That's why they also use Voice Stress Recognition as an Investigative Tool.

6.) Its not just the "ONE" expression. Or the "ONE" strange reaction. Its the totality of the reactions, and the reactions that were used.

I know you said that you studied Psychology which is respectable.....but I think you should study the area of Kinetic Body Language more....Its really much much much more than just being able to tell if the 12yr old is lying. A good investigator can spot a lie a mile away based on Kinetic Body Language.

Click to expand...

I have a degree in Psychology. I didn't just study Psychology. However, I am intrigued with the Kinetic Body Language. I still think that it isn't a valid tool for assessing deception because human beings are complex creatures...

_mb_ said:

I may be reading too much into this, but how did they know where she lived? I suppose an address could be found in the phone book, but they'd just moved. From what I've seen in interviews, it doesn't seem like janelle cared much for Suzie. And, Suzie & Sherills home was in a different school district, so it seems even less likely that Janelle and/or Mike were riding around the block one day with someone who casually pointed out that Suzie lives there.

Other than kids who rode the same bus as I did or lived across the street/next door to friends/family, I really had no clue where mere acquaintances of mine in high school lived.

Click to expand...

The only way I would think they would have known is that Janelle "Knew the address, or, had Directions" to Susies house. May be Susie gave Janelle her address before she left Janelles house that night? However that does bring up a good point.....If Janelle was suppose to call them in the morning like she says, then why would Susie have given her her address? Unless, the plan was to meet at Susies house.....but we don't know that, because the story begins and ends with Susie/Stacy telling Janelle to call them when she go up.....may be she wrote her phone number down with her address too.