Deceased/Not Found CA - Sierra LaMar, 15, Morgan Hill, 16 March 2012 #13 *A. Garcia-Torres guilty*

So LE knows what time the pic of Sierra (in shark sweater) was sent... It was sent that morning... But IIC they say the don't know when it was taken...

IMO: that picture was not a new snapshot of that morning, otherwise LE would have stated so...but they havent. They still say they dont know what she was wearing....IMO...they have the clothing, yet they say they are not sure if those were the cloths? why is that? maybe those clothes were fresh, clean and haven't been worn.

it is possible that perp sent the pic of Sierra... If it were an older pic on the computer.. Only reson I think it is possible is because LE will not marry the idea that Sierrra WAS wearing the clothes found in the bag... IMO..they were clean clothes..packed up for staging purposes..

Tuba said:

Yes, lilTexans, Marlene did say that Sierra left for the bus regularly at 7:15. She said that in the interview on Nancy Grace. She also talked about the photo being sent that late.

I read the remarks above about the number of old barns & outbuildings in Morgan Hill. My impression from the Google photo linked yesterday is that the perpetrator had some familiarity with Laguna-Fisher as it approaches the metal shed (where the books & bag were found). He did not imagine that equipment was being hauled out for the day's work, he knew it was an abomination full of twisted abused junk, a place even the homeless would reject. Therefore, he felt safe driving down there. He knew no one would spot him or remember him or the vehicle. A spot he thought empty of witnesses. If only the Siamese could speak.

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IMO.. Marlene said that Sierra left regularly at 7:15, but how does she know? Marlene is long gone to work by that time...
IMO.. After reading Sierra tweeter and tumbler, I don't think Marlene knew too much about what Sierra did or did not do.. Sierra is 15 and most likely lied to her mom at times.. Marlene would never know.. Maybe Sierra had a ride to school everyday...Marlene would naturally assume she went on the bus...meanwhile Sierra may have been getting rids to school with friends w/o Marlene ever knowing.

I am to not saying Marlene is lying, what I'm saying is is the statement that she left regularly left at 7:15 should actually say she assumes Sierra left at 7:15.

Wendy101 said:

IMO.. Marlene said that Sierra left regularly at 7:15, but how does she know? Marlene is long gone to work by that time...
IMO.. After reading Sierra tweeter and tumbler, I don't think Marlene knew too much about what Sierra did or did not do.. Sierra is 15 and most likely lied to her mom at times.. Marlene would never know.. Maybe Sierra had a ride to school everyday...Marlene would naturally assume she went on the bus...meanwhile Sierra may have been getting rids to school with friends w/o Marlene ever knowing.

I am to not saying Marlene is lying, what I'm saying is is the statement that she left regularly left at 7:15 should actually say she assumes Sierra left at 7:15.

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Good points about teens lying to mother's....I clearly remember this part of my life very well! As for getting a ride to school on a consistent basis I'm quite sure she did not....didn't bus driver or past bus drivers say she was always on bus? This was mentioned here several times. We also had some posts about a friend of a bus driver who knew someone on this forum who said they drove bus near to house to see if she was running late, albeit I was one who did not buy this as it seems from pics that the street is not one that a school bus can just drive in! However apart from that, I do recall on this forum posts regarding Sierra being a regular on bus, I don't have a link...so don't quote moi!

Wendy101 said:

IMO.. Marlene said that Sierra left regularly at 7:15, but how does she know? Marlene is long gone to work by that time...
IMO.. After reading Sierra tweeter and tumbler, I don't think Marlene knew too much about what Sierra did or did not do.. Sierra is 15 and most likely lied to her mom at times.. Marlene would never know.. Maybe Sierra had a ride to school everyday...Marlene would naturally assume she went on the bus...meanwhile Sierra may have been getting rids to school with friends w/o Marlene ever knowing.

I am to not saying Marlene is lying, what I'm saying is is the statement that she left regularly left at 7:15 should actually say she assumes Sierra left at 7:15.

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The bus driver is a good witness and she has been interviewed, so LE would know Sierra's bus habits going back at least the 6 weeks the bus driver had the route.

I keep going back to several feet from the front door as she was leaving with cell phone in hand, books and purse. The cell phone could have been thrown hours later, as well as the purse hidden away. No one knew anything was amiss until 6 pm. If the perp was stalking Sierra, he knew what time she left in the am, and probably knew Marlene's and Rick's movements on a typical day. No screams, signs of a struggle.

My understanding of the cellphone discovery is that the sheriffs found it from ping analysis and also determined that it had been tossed right after leaving the Palm Av area on the morning of March 16.

Bern said:

Let me throw this out there for our forensic people in the know. Since the crime is assumed to have started at the driveway, would the CSI look for any trace evidence in the home? Here is why the shoes bother me; if the person was let in or rushed the door as she opened it, they may have done a sexual assault in the home. You have to get the shoes and any stocking off, to remove the pants. If the crime was done let's say without a struggle or a sign of a struggle, like on a floor, or a rug and then she was forced to leave the home, she may not have shoes on at this point. Maybe he told her to grab her books and purse because he didn't want the home to be checked as the main crime scene, so that is why he tossed out the items to be found away from the house. I don't know if this is the case, but I am just wondering if they would look at the home as a crime scene and check for any blood or semen that may have been left behind. Now the perp may have even cleaned up, they are smart now about DNA, prints, fibers. They know to get rid of evidence now.

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If this perp took the time to rape her in the home, he would most likely not take her with him. He would probably kill her and leave her body there because he is not going to leave her alive so that she could ID him. Consider also that if he takes her with him he's got to either redress her or take the chance of being seen with a nude or partially nude girl. If she's still conscious she will be screaming, yelling, fighting him. If she's unconscious he will have to carry her or drag her. Remember, this is broad daylight, why would he risk being seen by neighbors leaving for work or walking outside to get the paper?
This is JMO, but I also think he would take her somewhere remote to actually rape her so that he could take his time. I don't know this for a fact, of course but it would seem likely to me that most rapists would not want to be rushed and definitely don't want to be ID'd. Some rape victims survive, but their attackers have taken them from other places, or the attacker has broken into the home and found the woman asleep. It was dark, or they wore a mask so as not to be ID'd. Or they erroneously thought they left the victim dead.
Of course... anything is possible. If this were a high school kid, he might not be using common sense.

All we have from LE is:

Last known contact with anyone by Sierra was via text at 7:11 AM the morning she disappeared. We do not know what the text said as all LE said about it was that it was nothing significant, was about school work or asking for something to be brought to school.

No one saw or heard anything unsual the morning Sierra disappeared.

She left her home and made only as far as "the end of the driveway" (which is confusing since they have not clarified which "end." Does the driveway end near the door of the house or does it end near the property entry gate?)

Sierra's phone was soon found in a field not too far from her home.

Sierra's Juicy bag was soon found outside a metal shed not too far from her home. It is unclear whether the bag was placed there or tossed but it somehow ended up "wedged" between the structure and a big cactus. In the bag were items of "neatly folded" pants, t-shirt and underwear. Sierra's school books were found "with" the bag. No clarification was given regarding where the books were found in proximity to the bag.

They do not believe Sierra is a runaway.

They do not know what Sierra was wearing when she disappeared. We have heard "gray shoes" but no description of those shoes has been provided.

They believe the perp has "ties to the community."

Sierra's parents and mother's live-in boyfriend have been cleared.

No one has been "ruled out."

Lab tests on items taken into evidence, including but possibly not limited to the Juicy bag and its contents, books, and phone, have been received but results have not been made public.

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IMO, some of what LE has stated contradicts other things stated. And some of what they have stated lacks necessary clarification and thus leaves things open wide to interpretation. LE may not be in a position to update, or they may have lots of new information that they are not comfortable making public. I hope that is the case because so far what is known had not changed from what was known in the first days. When I see that, the first thing that comes to mind is the ongoing investigation has provided LE with little to nothing. I prefer to believe LE staying mum is a tactical maneuver that will lead to the case being solved very soon. I want to believe this, and most days I do. But I have to say I have not seen a high-profile case with so little information since Haleigh Cummings. And that bothers me.

I can't help thinking it was someone she knew and went willingly. The cell phone would show calls in and out, along with the texts. Therein lies the answer if it was someone she knew. Twitter is too public.

The search has been targeting the area surrounding the house. Mark Klaas was on NG last night briefly in connection with the Celis disappearance. He stated the statistics, which most of us know. Stranger abductions are rare, 76% of the time the victim is found within a few miles of the abduction site, and water discovery is the most common. If we had a serial kidnapper, wouldn't LE show their cards for the public's sake? I don't believe these types just do it once.

It's easier to prove a case once the victim is found. I pray that LE is waiting for someone to screw up. They and the family and community have managed to keep it in the spotlight and doubt all these resources haven't come up with some warm leads. JMO.

Yes, there is a need to clarify what part of the drive the scent is lost. When the first reports said that Sierra's scent disappeared at the end of her driveway, we thought that meant where the drive meets Paquita Espana. On Nancy Grace, Sheriff Laurie Smith talked about the scent stopping at the house, the front door. That was mentioned at least once elsewhere too. If that is true, it's as if someone either called for her, or was bold enough to come right up to the door although not expected. There is always the possibility that someone was using her circle drive to turn around at the end of the cul de sac just when she emerged from the house but that is a remote chance.

Whisperer said:

How did the perp restrain her. Were the handcuffs part of the scheme. This girl is feisty and athletic..don't see her going in the vehicle easily. If she left from the driveway w/o screaming and fighting the whole time, why?.. if she was driven to the back of the house, out of the sight of everyone, then subdued, that would make sense. Was that gate open? Were the workers back there that early....very unlikely they'd be there at that hour.

Knowing the time of the phone toss would be beneficial. I thought it was within a few minutes of her last text, but can't remember.

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I don't know of any way to reliably predict who will fight for their life and who won't. If there were a way to tell, the military could save a bunch of money on training by separating recruits into two streams from induction, one for combat, the other for support duties. As it is, it is a big crap shoot.

Much as anyone hates to think so, the facts are that there are lots of victims who go along without a fight.

The most obvious way to stop someone from fighting is to use a weapon. A gun is most likely but a knife can actually work better (in that it can be used to inflict a non-fatal wound to intimidate a struggling victim).

Even though Sierra was athletic, she was also tiny. Five foot 2 inches tall and 110 pounds. She'd have a good chance to outrun a larger attacker but not so good a chance at fighting one off successfully.

I don't recall LE releasing the time that the phone was tossed. Depending on how many towers received pings from her phone, they may not know. If there was only one tower receiving pings from her phone, I'm not sure a half mile or so (my guesstimate of the distance from her house) would be enough to make an obvious change in the pings.

If 3 or more towers were receiving pings from her phone, then they probably know to within a few seconds when that phone was tossed.

Berry said:

Someone else packed that bag....forgot charger, forgot inhaler, forgot makeup, forgot hairbrush.....some stupid male packed this bag...they do not know what a girl/teen packs every day!!!

Maybe only one sock on too, so Marlene keeps the other one to smell (not knowing of course) because it was the odd one sticking out of the laundry?

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Knowing that many predators like to keep trophies, I wonder if the perpetrator emptied out her bag to keep her personal things as trophies and then re-packed it with the clothes she was wearing.

It makes a certain sick sense to me.

sreshowtime said:

interesting still at home at that time- what was Sierra planning to do, run to the bus stop?
OR get a ride to school from someone else...

did LE ever release what that 7:11 text was about? Wasn't the first message out around 6:30 the one about meeting for the school project? or am I confused

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The bus stop is only 0.4 miles from Sierra's home. A comfortable walking pace for an adult in reasonable physical condition is a 15 minute mile.

The bus was scheduled to arrive at her stop at 7:24 am, so at 7:11 am she had 13 minutes to walk just under a half mile. I believe I recall that Sierra was a jogger, so I don't think it's too unlikely that walking a half mile in 13 minutes would have been a leisurely stroll for her.

In fact, given the distance and time allotted, I would expect her to set off somewhere between 7:10 am and 7:15 am.

I'm inclined to think that the neighbour was mentally rounding off rather than being strictly accurate to the minute.

OldSteve said:

Clothes in Juicy bag has been a big mystery to me. I must have missed what her father, Steve, said about no reason to pack a bag... I do remember her mom IIRC saying she would not pack so neatly...

Mysteries to me - packing a bra seems unusual... a perp leaving a bag with underwear that would be (sadly sick) tropy itemes....
leaving the bag where family of stray cats who appear to have recently abandoned (not a feral colony IMO) and leaving the bag outside the shed where it was sure to be found, yet protected a bit by the cacti...

Is there a message there? Does she feel like a beatiful cat (they are Siamese prue bred looking) that has been abandoned????

That purse and it's location really distinguishes this case IMO...

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BBM

I'm not so sure the perp expected that the bag would be found.

There are hundreds of thousands of teen runaways in this country every day but how many of them get even one area search? Not many... I'm gonna be generous and say 1000 of them get one ground search each.

In my humble opinion, the reason why Sierra's case got so much more LE response was because Marlene was shrewd or lucky enough to convince LE from the very beginning that Sierra was not a runaway.

What if Sierra's mother hadn't been able to convince Sierra was probably not a runaway? Sadly, we all know that there are too many cases where the family isn't that lucky or shrewd. That bag would have remained hidden for an unknown length of time, possibly forever.

I'm hoping the perp is feeling kinda queasy right now, that s/he never expected that Sierra's disappearance would be taken seriously so quickly.

GrainneDhu said:

BBM

I'm not so sure the perp expected that the bag would be found.

There are hundreds of thousands of teen runaways in this country every day but how many of them get even one area search? Not many... I'm gonna be generous and say 1000 of them get one ground search each.

In my humble opinion, the reason why Sierra's case got so much more LE response was because Marlene was shrewd or lucky enough to convince LE from the very beginning that Sierra was not a runaway.

What if Sierra's mother hadn't been able to convince Sierra was probably not a runaway? Sadly, we all know that there are too many cases where the family isn't that lucky or shrewd. That bag would have remained hidden for an unknown length of time, possibly forever.

I'm hoping the perp is feeling kinda queasy right now, that s/he never expected that Sierra's disappearance would be taken seriously so quickly.

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Not just runaways, but missing by means unknown, or even in cases where foul play is suspected, does the missing teen get an investigation/searches of this magnitude. I realize that in some areas of the country that is due to money issues but really, California is not exactly rolling in dough these days...and I think what affects the state would affect the state's counties. Sure, many of the searches for Sierra have been by volunteers (bless their hearts!) but those water searches and other LE procedures are not inexpensive.

I think we will eventually find out what happened to Sierra. But if she has met with foul play, I am not so sure a perp will be convicted. In that case I will pray for Karma to balance things out.

Wendy101 said:

IMO.. Marlene said that Sierra left regularly at 7:15, but how does she know? Marlene is long gone to work by that time...
IMO.. After reading Sierra tweeter and tumbler, I don't think Marlene knew too much about what Sierra did or did not do.. Sierra is 15 and most likely lied to her mom at times.. Marlene would never know.. Maybe Sierra had a ride to school everyday...Marlene would naturally assume she went on the bus...meanwhile Sierra may have been getting rids to school with friends w/o Marlene ever knowing.

I am to not saying Marlene is lying, what I'm saying is is the statement that she left regularly left at 7:15 should actually say she assumes Sierra left at 7:15.

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..Remember, more than Marlene lives in the house. I would think Rick would give her rides more times than not.

Whisperer said:

..Remember, more than Marlene lives in the house. I would think Rick would give her rides more times than not.

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Absolutely. I think this is important. Apparently sometimes he left the house after her. Too bad March 16th wasn't one of those days.

I'm not familiar with the Morgan Hill area (being a mid-westerner) and I have been out of the loop for the past week or so, but I hope that people are going to go back soon to re-search the 3-5 mile perimeter of Sierra's home. Maybe this is being done already. If something really bad did happen to her, the perp may end up taking her somewhere he knows has been searched.

I would like to know how many people had access to the side electronic gate. How many cars parked back there? In the house to their right, there are a dozen cars in the back. Lots of activity going on at the end of the cul-de-sac...IMO.

In the brief time I was there, I saw all three houses' gates open and cars exiting and entering.

So, apparently her last tweet @ 7:11 was to meet someone "before class" to study...wondering if this was before her first class or what. Or someone with a car? Surely LE has looked into it. The text of her text message from hotsteno's Twitter.

Update: OK, sorry, this must be old news already. Catching up. Sorry.

That Twitter account has many tweets about "Flyer Guy" who has been seen tearing down Sierra's flyers...even on her street. There's even a description of him...hope this self-identified neighbor called it in to LE...

I can't understand this soical media stuff. I'll let you guys figure it out. I am now considered handicapped in regards to electronic data. It really sucks too because I live in Silicon Valley and the family all works in the industry. :HHJP: