GUILTY UK - Helen Bailey, 51, Royston, 11 April 2016 #9

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He will get his 40% of about £2.5 million which I think was the current value someone on the forum posted much earlier in the case. The only problem could be the need to reduce the price of the house due to its history. He will be left with something but not quite as much as it, at first, appears.
 
Hello everybody, long time lurker, first time poster.

Something that has been on my mind since the defence closing last week regarding IS having more "liquid assets". Has it been clarified what happened to IS money from the sale of his house?

It is my understanding that Helen bought the house effectively cash and then he later put in the money from his property sale. Do we only have his word for it that he transferred that money to Helen?

Given how careful Helen was with money it seems odd to me that a long term malingerer has such a wealth of money squirrelled away.

Apologies if this has been covered, I just wonder if he has been embezzling from Helen for a longer period of time than established by this investigation and wonder what happened to the money from his house sale when he " Put it into the house purchase "- already paid for by Helen.
 
I bet they didn't expect to be paying out 20 years later. Normally critical illness is deemed as life threatening. I wonder if this illness would be covered nowadays.

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Lol I bet they didn't. Until 1985 30% of MG patients died. Once a drug regime had been perfected it reduced the death rate considerably.

Forgive my ignorance of the condition, but is it possible IS did some research and plumped for MG as a condition he could fake in order to sign off work permanently with a monthly payout? Or is it definitively confirmed by medical tests? Knowing what we know about that slimeball, he's devious enough!
 
Something that i am interested - sorry, i mean curious - to know:
how is liability for defense costs affected by the choice of an expensive counsel
a) in the case of conviction
b) in the case of acquittal.


I believe counsel are paid standard rates especially if Legal Aid is involved. All murder cases have QC representation as standard. If you're in a lower level case and ask for a QC that would come out of your own pocket I think.
 
Forgive my ignorance of the condition, but is it possible IS did some research and plumped for MG as a condition he could fake in order to sign off work permanently with a monthly payout? Or is it definitively confirmed by medical tests? Knowing what we know about that slimeball, he's devious enough!

There's a blood test, he couldn't have faked that. But he could have of course pretended to increased severity of symptoms and I am sure he did.
 
Forgive my ignorance of the condition, but is it possible IS did some research and plumped for MG as a condition he could fake in order to sign off work permanently with a monthly payout? Or is it definitively confirmed by medical tests? Knowing what we know about that slimeball, he's devious enough!

It is confirmed by antibody tests for the disease. There isn't much doubt he did have it. He was ill after his bowel surgery which is commonplace after a surgery. Anaesthetics are a danger for myasthenics, causing breathing problems that are potentially fatal if not treated adequately. I had to have spinal anaesthetic for a hip replacement. Nobody would do it any other way.
 
I bet they didn't expect to be paying out 20 years later. Normally critical illness is deemed as life threatening. I wonder if this illness would be covered nowadays.

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Lol I bet they didn't. Until 1985 30% of MG patients died. Once a drug regime had been perfected it reduced the death rate considerably.
Yes with medical advances even some types of cancer are no longer covered on these types of policies. Skin cancer is one example because the treatments today are quite successful. I think that IS was fortunate that he took his policy out when he was quite young and at a time when perhaps MG long term prognosis was not so good.

My husband had a similar policy which would pay out a lump sum to cover our mortgage and enable us to pay it off in the event of critical illness that the company covered. We took it out with my Brother in law (a financial advisor), who advised us a few years later not to cancel it, as it would cost much more in monthly payments and not as many illnesses covered.

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Hello everybody, long time lurker, first time poster.

Something that has been on my mind since the defence closing last week regarding IS having more "liquid assets". Has it been clarified what happened to IS money from the sale of his house?

It is my understanding that Helen bought the house effectively cash and then he later put in the money from his property sale. Do we only have his word for it that he transferred that money to Helen?

Given how careful Helen was with money it seems odd to me that a long term malingerer has such a wealth of money squirrelled away.

Apologies if this has been covered, I just wonder if he has been embezzling from Helen for a longer period of time than established by this investigation and wonder what happened to the money from his house sale when he " Put it into the house purchase "- already paid for by Helen.

:welcome6:

I think it's quite likely he's been syphoning away most of his income. They were both supposed to be paying £600 a month into the jount account for house expenses, and both put £10k into it at one stage. What was he doing with the rest of his nearly £2k a month? No mortgage of course, so he could have had a fair bit of cash in hand. We'll never know I suppose who was buying most of the food etc.

I'm sure he did give Helen his share of the house but I am not sure if it's only his word for it. Someone with a better memory than I have should step in here :)
 
I have opened the Prosecco, which I had in the 'fridge ready when the Foreman said 'Guilty on all accounts' because I am pre-empting the words. I can hear it.
Unfortunately, Dolly (and Helen) I haven't stretched to Champagne (mean skate that I am) - but this is only the 'build up' to celebrating Justice for Helen, Boris and some comfort for their family.

I don't think IS shall 'survive' in prison. I believe he shall need constant suicide watch forever.
I am not saying he isn't a fantasist but when the reality of a room/cell is almost forever it'll be too much for him.
He shall be a broken man. Some murderers are not broken - and appear to find some reason for what they have done as a second shell - I think IS will only be full of regret of his mistakes in his defence - and filled with blame of everyone else concerned in Helen's cause.
The woman he possessed, the 'homes' he possessed ! Others came in - (forget N & J) the police, the Prosecution and stole his life.
He shall not ever feel guilty but feel he 'wished he had done it all better' so that he reached his ambition of 'qualifications' and total freedom from all encumbrance of love, joint bank account - plans for future - choice of engagement rings etc.
He is only able to think of himself in his own mirror - he can act out for a period of time but can't sustain it.
And when his goal is 'won' - it is like the bowls matches ... strike for ME .. all down, I survive.

Another glass of Prosecco anyone !!
 
Secreting Helen and Boris in the cesspit within the family home was probably IS' biggest mistake because it proved she had been murdered, and most probably by him. I guess the degradation of Helen's body in human excrement may be more a matter for the judge, as he could regard it as an aggravating feature when it comes to sentencing.

I believe in the context of the crime as a whole (and its background), the cesspit reveals a great deal about IS. It takes a special kind of ruthlessness to kill your fiance, the person who you were discussing wedding venues with just hours earlier, then drag her corpse to the most revolting location imaginable, with some effort force her body inside there, (and that of her dog), and then shut down the lid. Later that evening IS ate a Chinese takeaway and chatted with his son, just yards from that filthy tomb. This is the very opposite of a crime of passion - it is dispassionate and cold blooded in the extreme.

The cesspit exposes his dishonesty and deviousness - it proves not even the conventions of basic human decency would prevent him from covering his tracks. Once the jury has agreed no one but IS could have placed Helen's body there, his lifelong charade of being a decent man crumbles into a million pieces. When he was on the stand, he himself described Helen's murder and disposal as 'Sick and disgusting'. Those words sum him up, in my view the cesspit clearly demonstrates what a sick, disgusting and dangerous killer he is.
I absolutely agree. You have worded it so much better than I could.


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Lol Net - that was one of the reasons for the late start. He wasn`t taken to the wrong prison - it was that there was no room left at the inn!

But he's not the Messiah, he's a very naughty boy!

( sorry couldn't resist )


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It is confirmed by antibody tests for the disease. There isn't much doubt he did have it. He was ill after his bowel surgery which is commonplace after a surgery. Anaesthetics are a danger for myasthenics, causing breathing problems that are potentially fatal if not treated adequately. I had to have spinal anaesthetic for a hip replacement. Nobody would do it any other way.

Oooyaaa. A boyfriend's elderly mother had it done that way as she had stomach ulcers or something that meant no general. She gave me a blow by blow account of it. You're brave.
 
I edited my post above with this info but sticking it on the end in case anyone misses it.

This link explains the income limit which IS would be close to anyway if he's still getting the income he was in April last year. However for me the clincher is the assets, he's well above thet £30k limit. He will have to dig into his very tight pockets for this.

http://www.ppg-solicitors.co.uk/legal_aid.php
Ironic isn't it. He committed the crime because he is greedy and wanted much more than he had. So greedy that he was prepared to kill for it - now he will more than likely lose everything he had in the first place.


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Just a quick, brief post. I can`t keep up - I read a page, then find in that time another three pages have been written lol I`m banning all new posts for at least two hours :laughing:
Court was busy today but thank goodness we all were admitted with one spare chair! In all, there were about 11-12 members of the public.
From 10.30-11 the Judge and Counsel discussed a couple of things (and IS late as Net stated).
Judge Bright then spoke from 11 o`clock - 12.45. I know it`s all been posted brilliantly on here. He was so much easier on the ear then last week!
He had to choose a new jury for another trial. It seems it`s pretty difficult to find 12 good folk if it`s going to be a long trial - holidays, work, illness etc
 
Just a quick, brief post. I can`t keep up - I read a page, then find in that time another three pages have been written lol I`m banning all new posts for at least two hours :laughing:
Court was busy today but thank goodness we all were admitted with one spare chair! In all, there were about 11-12 members of the public.
From 10.30-11 the Judge and Counsel discussed a couple of things (and IS late as Net stated).
Judge Bright then spoke from 11 o`clock - 12.45. I know it`s all been posted brilliantly on here. He was so much easier on the ear then last week!
He had to choose a new jury for another trial. It seems it`s pretty difficult to find 12 good folk if it`s going to be a long trial - holidays, work, illness etc


Oh. I hope he has found twelve good'ns for this trial.
 
getting a new thread ready for you. Will be back with a link in a few minutes then this one will close.
 
As normal. Well - as normal as an abnormal person can be :confused: (confused myself with that one)
Sat pretty impassively as usual - but there are definitely times when his rapid blinking is more frequent e.g. the mention of the excrement (sorry - it`s just horrible).

That’s probably because he knows he’s up to his neck in it and sinking fast!!
 
Thread #10 awaits you. Please begin to move the conversation over to it. This one will close in ten minutes.
 
Secreting Helen and Boris in the cesspit within the family home was probably IS' biggest mistake because it proved she had been murdered, and most probably by him. I guess the degradation of Helen's body in human excrement may be more a matter for the judge, as he could regard it as an aggravating feature when it comes to sentencin

I believe in the context of the crime as a whole (and its background), the cesspit reveals a great deal about IS. It takes a special kind of ruthlessness to kill your fiance, the person who you were discussing wedding venues with just hours earlier, then drag her corpse to the most revolting location imaginable, with some effort force her body inside there, (and that of her dog), and then shut down the lid. Later that evening IS ate a Chinese takeaway and chatted with his son, just yards from that filthy tomb. This is the very opposite of a crime of passion - it is dispassionate and cold blooded in the extreme.

The cesspit exposes his dishonesty and deviousness - it proves not even the conventions of basic human decency would prevent him from covering his tracks. Once the jury has agreed no one but IS could have placed Helen's body there, his lifelong charade of being a decent man crumbles into a million pieces. When he was on the stand, he himself described Helen's murder and disposal as 'Sick and disgusting'. Those words sum him up, in my view the cesspit clearly demonstrates what a sick, disgusting and dangerous killer he is.

Dolly D - your words make my heart leap to everything I feel. Thank you for the 'summary' of this 'sick and disgusting act on the part of IS.
Allowing for him wishing to kill Helen and in a Freudian way usurp her, which I've always felt was behind this due to his inadequacy.
But BRAVO in your gift of words to summary of a cesspit hiding place, and Chinese food munching.
To kill Helen is unforgivable and to race around to grab her money is atrocious - and to use the toilet and **** upon her and Boris is beyond disgusting .. it reveals a murderer of a certain nature where when you '**** on people' whilst winning you have a fraud/deal mentality as well as NO NO NO regard of another human being
and Boris to be plonked in ****.
 
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