NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - #13

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Brainy said:
I also believe that Maura Murray is dead. I believe she ran into the woods that night, got lost and finally died of exposure. It was freezing that night and she was not equipped to find her way out. Her body may or may not be found but it is my belief that she didn't run off to start a life somewhere. She was a troubled girl that was drinking too much and something must have driven her over the edge to get up and leave so abruptly. Whatever the reasons behind, I don't think anybody abducted her or she was involved in any sort of foul play. All the indications are that she had been drinking and driving, making many poor choices and just acting irresponsibly. I do believe that people read into her disappearance way too much. And I do also agree that her body may be somewhere very close from the place she vanished. It's a remote wooded area and it's extremely difficult to conduct a search of that scale with positive outcomes, and it's been more than 13 yrs. Who knows, a hiker or a camper may come across her remains someday and the mystery will have closure.


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Just checking the Maura thread and with allllll the discussion this has had over the years I also wonder if this in the end might be the case.
Being a New Englander and living in the woods and having lost things never to find them is so possible.
The amount of trees and leaves that fall every season are alot and they cover everything. She/her body could very well have been missed. She could also be in a rocky crevice where she crawled in to try and stay warm. If she is hidden well enough it could be years or might never happen. Hunters are usually the ones every fall that come upon them.
But I keep hoping someday we will know.
 
I drove by the crash site on Friday as I do once a year. It doesn't seem much has changed over the last 9 years (since I've traveled that way). I still have no cell service there. It looked like someone had recently replaced the blue ribbon on the tree. I always think of her when we're up there and I hope her family will get closure at some point.
 
KlaraBell said:
I drove by the crash site on Friday as I do once a year. It doesn't seem much has changed over the last 9 years (since I've traveled that way). I still have no cell service there. It looked like someone had recently replaced the blue ribbon on the tree. I always think of her when we're up there and I hope her family will get closure at some point.
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Her family absolutely deserves answers and I'm hoping the new Oxygen series will help. Whether it leads to renewed search efforts or someone finally talks. Hopefully it paves the way for some answers.

I'm still in the boat that she either perished in the woods or crossed paths with the wrong person. Though it would be remarkable to me that she ended up in the woods without leaving a trace behind, though I suppose it's possible the river wasn't totally frozen and she could have fell in.

Either way we are long over due for some new leads here.
 
Sept 30, oxygen channel doing a show on the Disappearance of Maura Murray.
 
Brainy said:
I also believe that Maura Murray is dead. I believe she ran into the woods that night, got lost and finally died of exposure. It was freezing that night and she was not equipped to find her way out. Her body may or may not be found but it is my belief that she didn't run off to start a life somewhere. She was a troubled girl that was drinking too much and something must have driven her over the edge to get up and leave so abruptly. Whatever the reasons behind, I don't think anybody abducted her or she was involved in any sort of foul play. All the indications are that she had been drinking and driving, making many poor choices and just acting irresponsibly. I do believe that people read into her disappearance way too much. And I do also agree that her body may be somewhere very close from the place she vanished. It's a remote wooded area and it's extremely difficult to conduct a search of that scale with positive outcomes, and it's been more than 13 yrs. Who knows, a hiker or a camper may come across her remains someday and the mystery will have closure.


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I agree. This is the most likely explanation.
 
I've just been reading up on Maura's case. It seems as though the general train of thought is she went into the woods and died. I'm just wondering why that versus the possibility of her accepting a ride from someone and something happening after that. Just curious, appreciate the input from any of the more knowledgeable posters on this case. TIA.
 
neesaki said:
I've just been reading up on Maura's case. It seems as though the general train of thought is she went into the woods and died. I'm just wondering why that versus the possibility of her accepting a ride from someone and something happening after that. Just curious, appreciate the input from any of the more knowledgeable posters on this case. TIA.
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I think the consensus is trending towards the woods because that seems to be the simplest explaination.

Just today on UM, they had a segment about a man who deserted his life, travelled to the southwest, and disappeared in the desert on a vision quest. He left clues behind and dogs tracked his scent to a highway/interstate leading to speculation that he had gotten a ride and was alive. But an Update said hunters had found the man's remains out in the desert. I would not be surprised if Maura's story ends up the same way. Remains will be found, but cause of death and circumstances will remain unknown.
 
neesaki said:
I've just been reading up on Maura's case. It seems as though the general train of thought is she went into the woods and died. I'm just wondering why that versus the possibility of her accepting a ride from someone and something happening after that. Just curious, appreciate the input from any of the more knowledgeable posters on this case. TIA.
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I don't think it's improbable she took a ride from someone at all, especially based on the her circumstances surrounding her accident. Yes, the easiest explanation here is she wandered into the woods and perished somehow. However, she's been missing for well over a decade now and not a trace of her has been found, so I think it's time we accepted that maybe other possibilities exist as to why she went missing.

That night she was likely intoxicated to some degree. She had a recent accident in her Dad's car as well and alcohol could have very well been in a factor in that as well. With the Massachusetts crash, she was never given any sort of sobriety test, nor was she charged. Perhaps she talked her way out of it. Maybe the cop didn't feel compelled to test her.

In NH, she likely knew her luck had run out. I think her biggest priority after speaking with Butch Atwood was getting away from the scene ASAP before police show up and start asking questions. With suspected DUIs, police can't prove anything if the suspect is gone.

I believe it is possible that she may have gone into the woods at this point, don't get me wrong. But I've always felt in a way it defies logic and common sense. If you are simply looking to avoid the police you certainly don't have to trek miles into the woods. We don't know how prepared or unprepared she was, so without a source of light, or decent footwear it's not really a sensible choice. Plus, she'd likely be sober in a few hours anyway so why travel aimlessly?

But...I am not Maura. I can't speak for her or her reasoning so as much as I think it's a senseless choice, she could very well have still done it.

I've always felt the easiest option here, to 1) elude police 2) get away from the scene and 3) find a warm place to sober up and make a few phone calls would be done via accepting a ride from someone. Whether it was right next to her car or a mile down the road.

Yes, this is a risky choice as well but her options are obviously limited here. Butch Atwood noticed her and stopped to talk to her, so I don't think it's impossible someone else could have as well. Atwood even noted when he went back in the house several cars passed before police arrived. She shunned his help because essentially he would lead police right to her. Anyone else could have taken her miles away from any type of police presence.

I've often speculated that the person who could have given her a ride was someone who felt they could make sexual advances to her in the privacy of their own vehicle or house. Perhaps it went too far and the person subsequently killed her because they feared she would go to police. Of course, that's just speculation but a sexually motivated crime wouldn't surprise me in this situation.

I think either scenario is possible, but the more the years pass the more I think she fell victim to foul play.
 
Caffeine said:
I don't think it's improbable she took a ride from someone at all, especially based on the her circumstances surrounding her accident. Yes, the easiest explanation here is she wandered into the woods and perished somehow. However, she's been missing for well over a decade now and not a trace of her has been found, so I think it's time we accepted that maybe other possibilities exist as to why she went missing.

That night she was likely intoxicated to some degree. She had a recent accident in her Dad's car as well and alcohol could have very well been in a factor in that as well. With the Massachusetts crash, she was never given any sort of sobriety test, nor was she charged. Perhaps she talked her way out of it. Maybe the cop didn't feel compelled to test her.

In NH, she likely knew her luck had run out. I think her biggest priority after speaking with Butch Atwood was getting away from the scene ASAP before police show up and start asking questions. With suspected DUIs, police can't prove anything if the suspect is gone.

I believe it is possible that she may have gone into the woods at this point, don't get me wrong. But I've always felt in a way it defies logic and common sense. If you are simply looking to avoid the police you certainly don't have to trek miles into the woods. We don't know how prepared or unprepared she was, so without a source of light, or decent footwear it's not really a sensible choice. Plus, she'd likely be sober in a few hours anyway so why travel aimlessly?

But...I am not Maura. I can't speak for her or her reasoning so as much as I think it's a senseless choice, she could very well have still done it.

I've always felt the easiest option here, to 1) elude police 2) get away from the scene and 3) find a warm place to sober up and make a few phone calls would be done via accepting a ride from someone. Whether it was right next to her car or a mile down the road.

Yes, this is a risky choice as well but her options are obviously limited here. Butch Atwood noticed her and stopped to talk to her, so I don't think it's impossible someone else could have as well. Atwood even noted when he went back in the house several cars passed before police arrived. She shunned his help because essentially he would lead police right to her. Anyone else could have taken her miles away from any type of police presence.

I've often speculated that the person who could have given her a ride was someone who felt they could make sexual advances to her in the privacy of their own vehicle or house. Perhaps it went too far and the person subsequently killed her because they feared she would go to police. Of course, that's just speculation but a sexually motivated crime wouldn't surprise me in this situation.

I think either scenario is possible, but the more the years pass the more I think she fell victim to foul play.
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I've been wracking my brain on this case since a couple of months after it happened. Honestly, I don't think a day has gone by without me thinking about it to some degree. Whether it's actually adding to my notes (hers is the only case for which I have a binder full of notes), doing more research, working scenarios, having dialogue with those closest to her, or simply praying for an answer and some closure for her loved ones, every day it's been something. There have been a few times when I have had to just stop myself and step away for a few weeks because of the frustration, but those are the times I pray the hardest. But after all of these years, I have come to the same thoughts as you seem to have. Disappearing into the woods and never coming out is a possibility, but I find it MUCH more likely that some scum picked her up...and I really want to know more about 001, and RF. I'm not sure what, or what it has to do with Maura, but there is something not right there, especially 001.


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Please forgive my ignorance but what or who is 001 and RF?
 
margol29 said:
Please forgive my ignorance but what or who is 001 and RF?
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Sorry, RF (Rick Forcier) ... first of all, lived very near the accident scene. He was a construction work that refused to let his land be searched. At the time of the disappearance he was building his house and living in a trailer on the land. A few weeks, maybe months (notes are in the other room right now) he interjected himself into the case by saying that he saw her 5 miles down the road while on his way home that night. It was the fact that he did it so long after her disappearance and sort of distanced her from his land. Then later he was doing some really disrespectful, sketchy "joking" about her.
001....a witness saw a Haverhill cruiser, SUV, displaying the word 'POLICE' and '001' at the scene of the accident, parked nose to nose with Maura's car. The problem is that particular vehicle was never reported to be AT the scene that night. This was before any of the other help arrived. In fact, that particular vehicle was reported by police afterward, to be out of service that night.... Oh, and that SUV belonged to the Chief Of Police, who later lost his license for drunk driving in a separate incident.

Again, my notes are in the other room and I'm in bed...it's late, but I think I got the highlights.




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Thank you armywife210. That explains a lot. I think this is the first time I heard about 001.
Someone is not telling the truth. If we found who's lying we could find out what happened to her.
 
armywife210 said:
Sorry, RF (Rick Forcier) ... first of all, lived very near the accident scene. He was a construction work that refused to let his land be searched. At the time of the disappearance he was building his house and living in a trailer on the land. A few weeks, maybe months (notes are in the other room right now) he interjected himself into the case by saying that he saw her 5 miles down the road while on his way home that night. It was the fact that he did it so long after her disappearance and sort of distanced her from his land. Then later he was doing some really disrespectful, sketchy "joking" about her.
001....a witness saw a Haverhill cruiser, SUV, displaying the word 'POLICE' and '001' at the scene of the accident, parked nose to nose with Maura's car. The problem is that particular vehicle was never reported to be AT the scene that night. This was before any of the other help arrived. In fact, that particular vehicle was reported by police afterward, to be out of service that night.... Oh, and that SUV belonged to the Chief Of Police, who later lost his license for drunk driving in a separate incident.

Again, my notes are in the other room and I'm in bed...it's late, but I think I got the highlights.




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If it is true that cruiser 001 driven by the Chief was at the scene parked nose to nose, why would he park in this manner? How did her car end up? Which way was it facing and on what side of the road?

Could it have been parked that way to offer a jump? Would the car start after the accident? Or was it parked to box her in?

Could,the Chief have abducted her or maybe accidently hit her and disposed of her? He should have been investigated more.


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armywife210 said:
Sorry, RF (Rick Forcier) ... first of all, lived very near the accident scene. He was a construction work that refused to let his land be searched. At the time of the disappearance he was building his house and living in a trailer on the land. A few weeks, maybe months (notes are in the other room right now) he interjected himself into the case by saying that he saw her 5 miles down the road while on his way home that night. It was the fact that he did it so long after her disappearance and sort of distanced her from his land. Then later he was doing some really disrespectful, sketchy "joking" about her.
001....a witness saw a Haverhill cruiser, SUV, displaying the word 'POLICE' and '001' at the scene of the accident, parked nose to nose with Maura's car. The problem is that particular vehicle was never reported to be AT the scene that night. This was before any of the other help arrived. In fact, that particular vehicle was reported by police afterward, to be out of service that night.... Oh, and that SUV belonged to the Chief Of Police, who later lost his license for drunk driving in a separate incident.

Again, my notes are in the other room and I'm in bed...it's late, but I think I got the highlights.




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Thank you, armywife, I was totally in the dark about this and find it quite interesting.
 
neesaki said:
I've just been reading up on Maura's case. It seems as though the general train of thought is she went into the woods and died. I'm just wondering why that versus the possibility of her accepting a ride from someone and something happening after that. Just curious, appreciate the input from any of the more knowledgeable posters on this case. TIA.
Click to expand...


I don't think those scenarios are necessarily mutually exclusive.

To me the biggest problems with those respective theories in themselves are as follows:

a.) If she went into the woods and died, how was there zero evidence (footprints in the snow off to the side of the road, etc). anywhere within the search area?

b.) The odds of a random person picking her up who happened to be willing to kill her are so astronomically low that I can't even wrap my head around it.

But, as to the second point, the odds that she would be picked up by a random person who was willing to commit a less-severe opportunistic crime such as robbery are much, much higher.

I think there's a good possibility that the driver attempted such a crime several miles down the road from the pickup point, outside the primary search area, at which point Maura ran out of the car and into the woods (or fell into the river).

This would explain the lack of footprints, and also presents a scenario where she might run deep enough into the woods that she couldn't find her way out. Of course it's possible she went too deep to get out just as a means of avoiding police, but to me it's more likely that she would do so if she was running away from somebody.

If I was trying to find Maura, I'd be looking in the woods around places where a car can pull off the road (turnarounds, etc), starting about 5 miles east of the crash site and working further east from there towards Bartlett. I don't have a super strong opinion about what happened to her and think a number of possibilities are in play, but that to me is the plausible scenario that has been explored the least.
 
dub said:
I don't think those scenarios are necessarily mutually exclusive.

To me the biggest problems with those respective theories in themselves are as follows:

a.) If she went into the woods and died, how was there zero evidence (footprints in the snow off to the side of the road, etc). anywhere within the search area?

b.) The odds of a random person picking her up who happened to be willing to kill her are so astronomically low that I can't even wrap my head around it.

But, as to the second point, the odds that she would be picked up by a random person who was willing to commit a less-severe opportunistic crime such as robbery are much, much higher.

I think there's a good possibility that the driver attempted such a crime several miles down the road from the pickup point, outside the primary search area, at which point Maura ran out of the car and into the woods (or fell into the river).

This would explain the lack of footprints, and also presents a scenario where she might run deep enough into the woods that she couldn't find her way out. Of course it's possible she went too deep to get out just as a means of avoiding police, but to me it's more likely that she would do so if she was running away from somebody.

If I was trying to find Maura, I'd be looking in the woods around places where a car can pull off the road (turnarounds, etc), starting about 5 miles east of the crash site and working further east from there towards Bartlett. I don't have a super strong opinion about what happened to her and think a number of possibilities are in play, but that to me is the plausible scenario that has been explored the least.
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There's an episode of the Maura Murray podcast that features two academic criminologists. They said that the idea that someone cruising around looking for someone to abduct is the wrong way to think about it, that people who are inclined to pick up and kill random people do it on impulse when an opportunity presents itself. Therefore, it's not as unlikely as it might seem that she was picked up by someone with that intention -- it's just that the intention didn't form until the killer had the opportunity. In other words, yes, it would be unlikely that someone would drive down that road just hoping to find a vulnerable woman, but not that unlikely that if the wrong person happened by and had the opportunity, they would take it.

All of the events in this story are low-probability events, which makes the whole thing super-unlikely. But I don't think it's really much (if at all) more likely that someone drove down the street and developed an intention to rob a hitchhiking woman than it would be that someone who would pick up a hitchhiker on a lonely stretch of road would have murder and/or sexual assault in mind.

That said, I think people are overestimating how easy it is to find footprints in the snow. I don't think anyone looked all that hard at first.
 
Maura emailed her professor saying there was a death in the family to give her an excuse to be absent. If you think about it from this perspective it gives insight in to her intentions. Her intentions were likely to buy time for her to get away. Why would she want this head start? To leave forever or to commit suicide.

One could reason that those would then have to be the most probable outcomes.

The probability of being abducted or hit by a car are then astronomically low. Maybe she is still out there alive somewhere.

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trenchmouth said:
Maura emailed her professor saying there was a death in the family to give her an excuse to be absent. If you think about it from this perspective it gives insight in to her intentions. Her intentions were likely to buy time for her to get away. Why would she want this head start? To leave forever or to commit suicide.

One could reason that those would then have to be the most probable outcomes.

The probability of being abducted or hit by a car are then astronomically low. Maybe she is still out there alive somewhere.

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I'm not following. The excuse that there was a death in the family says to me, "I want to go away for a while and don't want to get in trouble for not attending class. I'll tell my professors that I have had a death in the family." Deaths in the family are rarely questioned as excuses of absences from class, in my experience as both a student as a professor. If she were going to commit suicide, IMHO, she wouldn't have cared less about who thought what about what classes she missed or what implications missing class would have had for her grades. She would have just left. The possibility that she drove to NH to commit suicide and was never found is even lower than that of her being abducted or of her running into the woods to evade a drunk driving charge, IMO. And even lower that she is still alive out there. MOO.
 
I just never got the feeling that someone picked her up (as in stranger) unless it was someone she knew. Someone she was maybe meeting up there or they were driving tandem.
I can see her running into the woods, getting lost etc. I can also see a possibility that she is alive and living in Canada.
And the death in the family excuse I took as you have skigirl, a good excuse.
Otherwise she would have just left, adios.
Which always made me think years ago that she planned on returning at some time.
As I believe I said upthread I no longer myself think she is alive. We never know unless they either show up or someone talks that knows something.
I think about Maura often and can not help but wondering like us all.
 
Skigirl said:
I'm not following. The excuse that there was a death in the family says to me, "I want to go away for a while and don't want to get in trouble for not attending class. I'll tell my professors that I have had a death in the family." Deaths in the family are rarely questioned as excuses of absences from class, in my experience as both a student as a professor. If she were going to commit suicide, IMHO, she wouldn't have cared less about who thought what about what classes she missed or what implications missing class would have had for her grades. She would have just left. The possibility that she drove to NH to commit suicide and was never found is even lower than that of her being abducted or of her running into the woods to evade a drunk driving charge, IMO. And even lower that she is still alive out there. MOO.
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Let me try again. I agree she made up an excuse to be absent that likely wouldn't be questioned for a while. However, I don't think she planned on coming back so she didn't care about consequences with professors. She just wanted a head start so she could either runaway or commit suicide. If she just left without notice everyone would have looked for her sooner which could have jeopardized her plans.

Why would she leave to commit suicide? She had visited the White Mountains with her father many times. It had meaning to her. She could have decided to get drunk and wander in to the mountains to die in a place she loved. The accident may have disrupted this plan however.

Or, she ran away.

The lowest probability is an abduction.

Just my opinion. Which has changed many times over the years.





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