AZ - Gabriel Johnson, 8 months, 26 Dec 2009 - last seen in Texas - #5

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mum said:
All depends. One is not suppose to bring moms over state lines for the purpose of adoption, but it happens all the time. There is no scam, but unethical as all get out. If LE is doing there job then they should know about it.

EJ could have very well told an agency "I trust you, you choose Gabriel's new parents" and she MIGHT have met them at the park and handed him over to the new family, as an agency would see it as a "mutual place" and a "happier place" then an office or hotel room.

No matter what NG says about "handing your child over to strangers" it does happen more often then people know.

I still question TPS in regards to her request for prayers for EJ and GJ as she was going underground and getting help. An agency would have wired money to EJ if she needed it. They would have also covered some expenses for her after placement.

I believe EJ went to florida because it was "far away" and somewhere she thought she could get lost for awhile. She would have needed to stay put for a few months until finaliaztion. Not sure how long that would have been in TX, I would have to look that up.

Also, if I haven't said it here. Adoption Services Associates place with couples in International Countrys. France and Belgium for sure.
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This is what I truely believe happened. I think that is why she seemed a little confused when she talked to Tammy the first time... she wasn't sure why Tammy and Jack were suddenly so upset when they were so reassuring to begin with. Now I am sure she knows it was she who muddied the waters when she texted Logan. We can see where she has a pattern of seriously jerking him around emotionally. Nothing new in the EJ/Logan game. But what I am not so sure about is whether this was being done through otherwise legitimate sources.... If they are fairly legit, why are the Smith's scrambling so? They are the ones I think need the closest examination. If this was a legit organization, Gabe is probably very safe right now and LE knows it. If not, no one probably really knows where he is and recovery may be all but impossible.
 
Dear Prudence said:
A court order was filed in Arizona on Dec. 17th, 2009 declaring shared custody of Gabriel for Logan and Elizabeth. If EJ handed over Gabriel in San Antonio for adoption it wasn't until Dec. 26th or 27th. This would be illegal, wouldn't it? Would these kind of agencies you are talking about do something like this? Or, would EJ have to lie about his custody status?
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I am not an attorney, but the court hearing was where EJ was granted legal and physical custody and it offered LM visitation. That is my understanding. Because he did not get his visitation he went back to court and on the 28th was granted custody because she didn't show up.
Even though he got court ordered visitation, in TX they did not need his consent and they do not have to adhere to AZ's laws because baby was placed in TX. That is how it is preceived by an agency that may see a caucasian baby who will bring them up to $25,000- $50,000 for an adoption
 
time said:
Ives... if you still have contact with the woman who adopted out her baby, maybe it would be good to gather a little info on how she went about that and such. It could be that would connect to something going on in SA or ?


Stay safe ... maybe the FBI should send someone who looks young to the hotel though! :)
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well I did just call the hotel Just to ask how much it was for a weeks stay. $245 bucks. Not too bad. It looks really nice. Now how many other motels did she stay at on her trip? and did she actually pay for a room at Motel 6? or Just park the car there?

Don't worry, I just asked "how much for a weeks stay?"
Man "245.21"
Me " OK, Thanks!"
 
can the fbi do a check and see if any money was wired to her from say western union or money gram,

just do a search for her name ?
just thinking out loud

if she had 500.00 on her that is making me think more gabe is still with us.

or do a check on all credit cards from all the people involved gas cards credit cards etc
 
panthera said:
I'm going to go back and look at the articles - I was confused too which date, although either way it seems someone else had the cell phone.
Click to expand...

Okay, I know she's not the most reliable source but here is what Tammi said on NG last Friday about the Victoria pings:

CASAREZ: Talk to us again about your thoughts about Victoria, Texas. There`s not a date on this. And when do you say her cell phone pinged in Victoria?

T. SMITH: They said it was on the 27th. And that was the day that she sent the text that he was dead and that was the day that she wouldn`t speak to me verbally.

CASAREZ: OK. That`s the day that she did leave on the bus from San Antonio to Florida?

T. SMITH: Yes.

CASAREZ: So you`re saying she had to go to Victoria and come all the way back to San Antonio?

T. SMITH: Correct. She went two hours south and then came back up to get on a bus.


Here's the link: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1001/08/ng.01.html
 
Clearly, EJ is so full of hate & confusion that it was more satisfying to punish Logan & create upsets all around. I think if she had psychiatric consultations,she may have been able to bond with Logan & possibly Gabriel. Her need to lash out from all the turmoil & resentment she was feeling was much greater than her need for friendship ,affection & approval.
It is quite sad,but I really doubt that she could have been a parent or spouse. I hope Gabriel is alive. I just don't think so.
 
redfish said:
This is what I truely believe happened. I think that is why she seemed a little confused when she talked to Tammy the first time... she wasn't sure why Tammy and Jack were suddenly so upset when they were so reassuring to begin with. Now I am sure she knows it was she who muddied the waters when she texted Logan. We can see where she has a pattern of seriously jerking him around emotionally. Nothing new in the EJ/Logan game. But what I am not so sure about is whether this was being done through otherwise legitimate sources.... If they are fairly legit, why are the Smith's scrambling so? They are the ones I think need the closest examination. If this was a legit organization, Gabe is probably very safe right now and LE knows it. If not, no one probably really knows where he is and recovery may be all but impossible.
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I don't think Gabriel was adopted through a legit means, but I suspect he was adopted/passed off to a couple who has some means. I think when Tammi and Jack couldn't adopt him because of Logan they helped find another family or a network that would eventually find a family. I think they know what that initial connection is and if it's not Janet Morris, then they haven't been forthcoming with that info. Unfortunately, I think as I have said and others have that this will be difficult to trace - that's how it is set-up and I think whoever is involved in this knows how to do that.
 
mum said:
I am not an attorney, but the court hearing was where EJ was granted legal and physical custody and it offered LM visitation. That is my understanding. Because he did not get his visitation he went back to court and on the 28th was granted custody because she didn't show up.
Even though he got court ordered visitation, in TX they did not need his consent and they do not have to adhere to AZ's laws because baby was placed in TX. That is how it is preceived by an agency that may see a caucasian baby who will bring them up to $25,000- $50,000 for an adoption
Click to expand...

I believe the hearing on Dec 17th granted both of them shared custody:
IT IS ORDERED that until the trial, the child shall reside with Mother from Wednesday morning at 8:00 a.m. until Sunday morning at 8:00 a.m. and with Father from Sunday at 8:00 a.m. through Wednesday at 8:00 a.m.
http://www.courtminutes.maricopa.gov/docs/Family Court/012010/m4037032.pdf

Iirc, EJ took the baby for her scheduled time and then left the state with him. Because she violated the orders of the 17th, full custody was granted to Logan.
 
For anyone that has a hairball that needs to come up -- Nance is back on for the repeat, if you need it.

After that, I happen to know where you can get a very nice enema.

All cleaned up (out, so to speak), slickered up, and ready to go.
 
Ives said:
well I did just call the hotel Just to ask how much it was for a weeks stay. $245 bucks. Not too bad. It looks really nice. Now how many other motels did she stay at on her trip? and did she actually pay for a room at Motel 6? or Just park the car there?

Don't worry, I just asked "how much for a weeks stay?"
Man "245.21"
Me " OK, Thanks!"
Click to expand...

Homegate by Six Flags?
10950 Laureate Drive Building
 
Ives said:
well I did just call the hotel Just to ask how much it was for a weeks stay. $245 bucks. Not too bad. It looks really nice. Now how many other motels did she stay at on her trip? and did she actually pay for a room at Motel 6? or Just park the car there?

Don't worry, I just asked "how much for a weeks stay?"
Man "245.21"
Me " OK, Thanks!"
Click to expand...


I thought she stayed at two other hotels and I am unsure if she actually ever stayed at the Motel 6. She apparently told one hotel/motel she was staying a week.

Thanks for doing that!
 
what about this? said:
For anyone that has a hairball that needs to come up -- Nance is back on for the repeat, if you need it.

After that, I happen to know where you can get a very nice enema.

All cleaned up (out, so to speak), slickered up, and ready to go.
Click to expand...

auhahahahah!! That left me with a diaper moment!!
 
mum said:
I am not an attorney, but the court hearing was where EJ was granted legal and physical custody and it offered LM visitation. That is my understanding. Because he did not get his visitation he went back to court and on the 28th was granted custody because she didn't show up.
Even though he got court ordered visitation, in TX they did not need his consent and they do not have to adhere to AZ's laws because baby was placed in TX. That is how it is preceived by an agency that may see a caucasian baby who will bring them up to $25,000- $50,000 for an adoption
Click to expand...

Thanks for your info because this is all new to me. But EJ was not granted full custody. It was ordered for them to share custody equally. Would that make a difference?

Here's the agreement if that helps:
http://www.courtminutes.maricopa.gov/docs/Family Court/012010/m4037032.pdf
 
mum said:
Homegate by Six Flags?
10950 Laureate Drive Building
Click to expand...

they have 2 locations with different websites, LOL, oops. But that one for a single is 225 plus tax, so comes out about the same. The other is on san pedro, and close to fiesta also, thats why I got a little confused.
 
Paraphrased:


The person says you know I live in Victoria, Tx and you were saying that they tracked Elizabeths cell gps to this city, I talk with Law enforcement on a daily basis, I asked an state officer today, what they were told and where to look for the baby, and he had no idea what I was talking about, so he had me tell him about the baby and ...he was going to check his email, because he might of missed that,,,,,,,now thats something

Hmm.
 
Dear Prudence said:
Okay, I know she's not the most reliable source but here is what Tammi said on NG last Friday about the Victoria pings:

CASAREZ: Talk to us again about your thoughts about Victoria, Texas. There`s not a date on this. And when do you say her cell phone pinged in Victoria?

T. SMITH: They said it was on the 27th. And that was the day that she sent the text that he was dead and that was the day that she wouldn`t speak to me verbally.

CASAREZ: OK. That`s the day that she did leave on the bus from San Antonio to Florida?

T. SMITH: Yes.

CASAREZ: So you`re saying she had to go to Victoria and come all the way back to San Antonio?

T. SMITH: Correct. She went two hours south and then came back up to get on a bus.


Here's the link: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1001/08/ng.01.html
Click to expand...
thanks so much :) Do we know what time the bus left for FL and if this scenario is even possible - that she went to Victoria first, came back and then got the bus to FL? IIRC from the Google map, one way from San Antonio to Victoria is over 2 hrs.
 
Marigold said:
I believe the hearing on Dec 17th granted both of them shared custody:
IT IS ORDERED that until the trial, the child shall reside with Mother from Wednesday morning at 8:00 a.m. until Sunday morning at 8:00 a.m. and with Father from Sunday at 8:00 a.m. through Wednesday at 8:00 a.m.
http://www.courtminutes.maricopa.gov/docs/Family Court/012010/m4037032.pdf

Iirc, EJ took the baby for her scheduled time and then left the state with him. Because she violated the orders of the 17th, full custody was granted to Logan.
Click to expand...

I stand corrected. An Agency would still place with out dads consent in TX.
 
FifthEssence said:
There's also that possibility Tammi may NOT really want to talk to her at all for fear Eliz may say something that incriminates T & hubby.
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That is what I thought because of the way Tammi said she would not want to be alone with Elizabeth. She must know that all is recorded in those visits, and Elizabeth might say something indicating they were involved somehow.
 
Paraphrased:


The person says you know I live in Victoria, Tx and you were saying that they tracked Elizabeths cell gps to this city, I talk with Law enforcement on a daily basis, I asked an state officer today, what they were told and where to look for the baby, and he had no idea what I was talking about, so he had me tell him about the baby and ...he was going to check his email, because he might of missed that,,,,,,,now thats something

Hmm.
 
mum said:
I am not an attorney, but the court hearing was where EJ was granted legal and physical custody and it offered LM visitation. That is my understanding. Because he did not get his visitation he went back to court and on the 28th was granted custody because she didn't show up.
Even though he got court ordered visitation, in TX they did not need his consent and they do not have to adhere to AZ's laws because baby was placed in TX. That is how it is preceived by an agency that may see a caucasian baby who will bring them up to $25,000- $50,000 for an adoption
Click to expand...

Logan and Elizabeth were granted joint custody at the first hearing.
 
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