Casey & Family Psychological Profile #3

reeseeva said:

Lavanda, the Anthonys "giving in" to save their sanity, was, IMHO perpetuating the problem, creating the monster they now have to deal with.
I would never have indulged that behavior, not matter what. Not only for your sake, but also for the child. They accepted this behavior for quite some time.

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I do not know if Casey is BPD or not. I do know that when we would confront our BPD daughter with lies (childhood or adulthood) she would become violent or self abusive. I became convinced that it was my responsibility to teach her right from wrong regardless. Difficult for the family, yes. The Anthony's seem to have chosen another route with their daughter. I wish we had a forensic MHP posting here to give insight.

Does anyone think that whatever happened to kc (incest? rape? abuse?) when young made her go into 2 people? zanny and kc???? jb keeps saying 'compelling photos of kc in youth'.......never saw but 2 pix of kc young.......what does he mean? why don't we see what was wrong? 1 thing is kc was not pretty like Caylee.......kc had an ackward look.

For BPD and other personality disorders to develop you don't need a 'shocking' youth event. Sometimes "normal" things scar children. Sometimes the abandonment or harm is real, sometimes imagined.

For example, when I was 7 my family moved to a different country, and for the first year they didn't really talk about it with me. They were very busy with visa, work, trying to get situated. I had babysitters and teachers but they spoke a different language. I developed resentment for my parents. When I was 14 I had borderline-type symptoms. (not old enough to be formally diagnosed, I think.) It got pretty bad and peaked, and then got better and better with age, to the point where I can be self-reflective of symptoms and the "unreasonable anger" that comes to you.

OK - my point is, the event can be very small and minuscule. My parents had no idea anything had happened. They were 'good' parents. They set boundaries and disciplined me, they showed care and affection - but for around 8 months they were just very busy and it affected me in a horrible way.

I hope this post doesn't backlash on me.

I also think because I had similar symptoms I'm kind of empathic towards Casey.

I found something today that I found rather fitting to Casey:

"doublethink": "The power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them....To tell deliberate lies while genuinely believing in them, to forget any fact that has become inconvenient, and then, when it becomes necessary again, to draw it back from oblivion for just so long as it is needed, to deny the existence of objective reality and all the while to take account of the reality which one denies - all this is indispensably necessary."(Nineteen Eight-Four, George Orwell)

It so strongly fits her. Thought I'd share with the group.

I doubt that we'll ever know what motivates KC, what psychological diagnosis there may be for her, if there ever is one. That kind of diagnosis comes after many, many hours spent with a patient. I can't believe these psychologists who appear on these shows and offer instant diagnoses - they should know better than that.

Living with someone with mental illness like BPD is a lot easier said than done. Its a full time job and relentless. I think that G & C did pretty well up and until the pregnancy. Any idea whether or not Casey was in a regular classroom in school? or was she in a special group for emotionally disturbed kids? She hates authority - wonder how she was in school - or did this behavior manifest itself after the pregnancy?

karen in New York said:

Living with someone with mental illness like BPD is a lot easier said than done. Its a full time job and relentless. I think that G & C did pretty well up and until the pregnancy. Any idea whether or not Casey was in a regular classroom in school? or was she in a special group for emotionally disturbed kids? She hates authority - wonder how she was in school - or did this behavior manifest itself after the pregnancy?

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I don't have a link maybe it was KIO but her high school friends said kc was 'easy' with guys...........I have a feeling that she was in all kinds of trouble as a kid, and got out of it with parents help.......I would love to know more about her youth, what makes a sociopath?

I don't like to admit it, but I sometimes can go into denial mode like CA. Sometimes I can't bear the truth or have to have things be perfect and going great. I can sometimes ignore something unpleasant so I don't have to deal with it. I don't know where this comes from and why but I think her mind would not let her accept the truth. I hope she can accept it now and start to heal....but I sure wish they would bury that poor baby...for goodness sake!

Does anyone know is a sociopath born with this (like chemical or gene pool)?
or are the raised that way? Is a physcopath and a sociopath the same?
I looked it up on google and got more confused. anyone know? Then the pathological liars?? where do they fit in? Trying to understand kc.......ca.......actions

reeseeva said:

So, by Cindy putting on blinders to her behavior, it helped who? Do you think Cindy knew this for a long time & chose not to address it? She is in the health profession, & has labeled KC to other people, has admitted what she thinks. It seems to be a case of pride with this family, not to have anything that appears broken, to the outside world. As LP & Tim M., having lived in the house, both describe the parents walking on eggshells around KC, & this was AFTER she was released from the last video. If I witnessed my child's behavior & lying, lie upon lie to LE & not having a job with my grandchild missing, jail would seem like heaven to them coming home.

It boggles my mind & enrages me the way the family treats her. What if they closed the door to her unless she had answers? Where would she have gone? I would not tolerate 1 minute with her, but they have for 22 yrs....they have helped make the monster she has become!

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There is nothing the parents could do to 'help' KC, as personality disorders aren't treatable, especially antisocial personality disorder.

Dealing with one of these people in any kind of normal, rational way is just not possible. They lie continuously, and have no reaction to being caught in a lie - they just make up more lies to try to explain it away. The way KC behaved with the detectives during her interrogation - that's the way she IS, all the time.

The best thing they could have done is taken custody of Caylee and forced KC out on her own.

It appears to me that they simply hadn't yet accepted how sick their daughter was. They still haven't accepted it.

passionflower said:

Does anyone know is a sociopath born with this (like chemical or gene pool)?
or are the raised that way? Is a physcopath and a sociopath the same?
I looked it up on google and got more confused. anyone know? Then the pathological liars?? where do they fit in? Trying to understand kc.......ca.......actions

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I think people are born with personality disorders. Their brains are 'wired' this way from birth.

Childhood circumstances, like physical abuse or neglect by parents, can shape how a person with a personality disorder 'acts out', but no amount of good parenting can change the fact that the disorder is there.

They say that somewhere around 3% of all people are sociopaths, and it doesn't vary by culture. You find them all over the world. What that tells me is there is an evolutionary reason for their existence in our species. I suspect that the survival of our species has many times depended on the existence of a sociopath during desperate times. They were willing to do ANYTHING to survive, and they didn't feel bad about it either.

In non-desperate times, we lock them up.

they knew KC was trouble - they just NEVER IMAGINED she would go this far

did they think she would do the following ? YES

1. drugs
2. sleep around
3. drink and get drunk
4. lie
5. steal
6. lie some more
7. steal some more
8. arrested for OUI, theft, drugs
9. lie some more

10. murder i dont think they ever imagined this :furious:

Having known some pathological narcissists, which have Borderline traits, it is always about the money. They spend and spend alot. Every one of my narcissistd have filed bankruptcy at least once. They love to buy things and buy plenty. They love luxury. But they spend other people's not their own. They usually have a stash hidden. You should look for hidden bank accounts and scams of which they are prone to get into.

On the occasional times when they are forced to spend their money, you will hear about it. If it is given freely, it is to come back many fold and that is the only reason they gave it in the first place.

Every narcissist/borderline I know would never say or admit their children lie and they never do any wrong either. They will berate the friends of the child and insist the friends are the cause of the trouble. Then they call the friends parents and create havoc. They also do this with teachers. The teachers are always wrong about their child...."and didn't you see so and so, he did the same thing...why are you picking on mine". They are the teachers worst nightmare.

Funny thing I noticed with female narcissits....many of them marry police or milltary...are they trying to find someone to control them?....or are they going to strip the person of any feelings of control the person may have. Perhaps they enjoy trying to absorb their power or take it from them.

These people are basically fearless. there are 2 exceptions:
1....Losing money. Money is their God.
2....getting into a physical altercation where they may receive bodily injury.

If any of you have ever worried that perhaps you are a narcissist....you are not...a true narcissist would never worry about such a thing.

Even if Cindy did get Casey some help when young, I doubt if they would have diagnosed anything much other than ADD. I've found it almost impossible to get anyone to listen or to get any long term help for a young relative of mine. If anyone has gotten real help I'd appreciate advice.

passionflower said:

Does anyone know is a sociopath born with this (like chemical or gene pool)?
or are the raised that way? Is a physcopath and a sociopath the same?
I looked it up on google and got more confused. anyone know? Then the pathological liars?? where do they fit in? Trying to understand kc.......ca.......actions

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Okay so what if Charles Manson's mom gave him up at birth and he was adppted by Mr.and Mrs. Smith? A warm family who loved kids. Would he have still been the way he was?

What about Ted Bundy and Paul Bernardo...they grew up in middle class families and were educated. Yet they were sociopathic. I think it's really funny that Charles Manson probably thinks KC is crazy.

passionflower said:

Does anyone know is a sociopath born with this (like chemical or gene pool)?
or are the raised that way? Is a physcopath and a sociopath the same?
I looked it up on google and got more confused. anyone know? Then the pathological liars?? where do they fit in? Trying to understand kc.......ca.......actions

Click to expand...

Psychopath is the older term for sociopath, which is now displaced by antisocial personality disorder. They are all terms for the same thing. Some use "psychopath" to mean a more severe form of the disorder.

Most current theories opine that it's genetics AND upbringing.

Yes, they are all pathological liars.

GingBreade said:

Okay so what if Charles Manson's mom gave him up at birth and he was adppted by Mr.and Mrs. Smith? A warm family who loved kids. Would he have still been the way he was?

What about Ted Bundy and Paul Bernardo...they grew up in middle class families and were educated. Yet they were sociopathic. I think it's really funny that Charles Manson probably thinks KC is crazy.

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Nobody knows. There are "bad seeds" born to good families.

Bundy was the son of a hooker, who was into drugs. He was adopted. Maybe her drugs affected him in utero.

The latest is that something is wrong with the mirror neurons-- the system turns inward, instead of outward, and the prefrontal cortex is smaller than normal.

But, having a brutal, or the reverse, an overindulgent family prolly brings the disorder to fruition.

jqp54 said:

I think people are born with personality disorders. Their brains are 'wired' this way from birth.

Childhood circumstances, like physical abuse or neglect by parents, can shape how a person with a personality disorder 'acts out', but no amount of good parenting can change the fact that the disorder is there.

They say that somewhere around 3% of all people are sociopaths, and it doesn't vary by culture. You find them all over the world. What that tells me is there is an evolutionary reason for their existence in our species. I suspect that the survival of our species has many times depended on the existence of a sociopath during desperate times. They were willing to do ANYTHING to survive, and they didn't feel bad about it either.

In non-desperate times, we lock them up.

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Great post! Thanks!

passionflower said:

Does anyone think that whatever happened to kc (incest? rape? abuse?) when young made her go into 2 people? zanny and kc???? jb keeps saying 'compelling photos of kc in youth'.......never saw but 2 pix of kc young.......what does he mean? why don't we see what was wrong? 1 thing is kc was not pretty like Caylee.......kc had an ackward look.

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She's not two people. She doesn't have DID-- she's a sociopath. She knows she's not Zanny, and that there IS no Zanny.

She was prolly born that way, and a permissive upbringing helped ripen it.

I think a lot of people CLEARLY swee what was wrong.

JB is talking about how adorable she looked in the baby pictures.

Thanks.

txsvicki said:

Even if Cindy did get Casey some help when young, I doubt if they would have diagnosed anything much other than ADD. I've found it almost impossible to get anyone to listen or to get any long term help for a young relative of mine. If anyone has gotten real help I'd appreciate advice.

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I agree, and possibly bi-polar if Cindy brought her in...lol
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The only way, sometimes, to get help for young people is to demand it. This works better with a larger facility. You have to push the Doctors to give the child treatment or keep on going to where you can get it. You may have to go above the Dr's head and speak to a director or his boss about the situation. Don't give up.

You may hear some say there are too many meds given to children for depression and it is dangerous. They never mention how many children have killed themselves because they weren't on meds. If it is depression that is the problem, you must be on the look-out for the signs of when they are making improvement...many suicides occur on this side, not the down side. Hope this helps.