2011.06.08 Sidebar (Trial Day Thirteen)

Soulmagent said:

Good points . The SA is making headway. on the other hand ..

Nothing mentioned removes reasonable doubt that Caylee drowned in a pool.
The SA has to remove that doubt Caylee drown in a pool they have to show a murder. Before opening they didnt have to remove the drowning doubt it wasnt there. Now it is and they have to get rid of it.

I do think the trunk images will aide them alot but right now as the jury sees it . Where is all this going?
If the SA case was a strong as one would think would 5 hours of jail tape be a must?

I really am excited to hear the SA 's closing though I expect it to be very good.
I also think Baez does have a few tricks up his sleeve and dont expect this jury not to be shown a witness or two with a few interesting things to say.

I also think the jury is going to have issues with thinking Casey moved a days old body herself ,alone. Since Baez gave them an option to consider GA moving the body they have doubt there to.

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I think that the Blockbuster date night video removes the doubt that it was a tragic accident. Most moms would be devastated if their baby accidentally drowned in the pool because they were neglectful. I think the SA is going to show, with specifics, that Casey was texting and messaging and uploading Fusion pix the entire afternoon that the 'tragic accident' supposedly happened.

The very fact that Casey was celebrating that evening, and that she moved in with her boyfriend the very night that Caylee 'drowned' is very telling. She did not miss a beat. She was happy and care free, and I do not think the jury is going to buy the DT's theory that Sexual Abuse made her too weird to grieve over her child's death. I think they are going to conclude she was happy, and not sad after her child 'went missing.'

And the 5 hours of jail tape was a must because they needed to combat the DT's theory that George was an evil monster that she feared. I think they got to see who the real boss was in that household, and who the real monster was. The jury heard her say, dismissively, " All they care about is getting Caylee back." That was huge, imo. Would she have said that if George already knew she was dead? I do not see the DT being able to overcome that moment too easily.

I think it is easier for the jury to imagine Casey moving the body than George doing so. He showed way more emotion and grief and intensity over Caylee than Casey did. The jury got to see and hear that. She came off like a true sociopath, and he did not. imoo

I do not think Baez really 'gave them an option.' It seems more like he made a wild accusation than a valid option. Maybe he will be able to make it seem more realistic when he presents his actual case, and offers his witness testimonies. But if he sticks with Roy Kronk as the one who dumped the body, then she will end up on Death Row, imo.

katydid23 said:

I think that the Blockbuster date night video removes the doubt that it was a tragic accident. Most moms would be devastated if their baby accidentally drowned in the pool because they were neglectful. I think the SA is going to show, with specifics, that Casey was texting and messaging and uploading Fusion pix the entire afternoon that the 'tragic accident' supposedly happened.

The very fact that Casey was celebrating that evening, and that she moved in with her boyfriend the very night that Caylee 'drowned' is very telling. She did not miss a beat. She was happy and care free, and I do not think the jury is going to buy the DT's theory that SA made her too weird to grieve over her child's death. I think they are going to conclude she was happy, and not sad.

And the 5 hours of jail tape was a must because they needed to combat the DT's theory that George was an evil monster that she feared. I think they got to see who the real boss was in that household, and who the real monster was. The jury heard her say, dismissively, " All they care about is getting Caylee back." That was huge, imo. I do not see the DT being able to overcome that moment too easily.

I think it is easier for the jury to imagine Casey moving the body than George doing so. He showed way more emotion and grief and intensity over Caylee than Casey did. The jury got to see and hear that. She came off like a true sociopath, and he did not. imoo

I do not think Baez really 'gave them an option.' It seems more like he made a wild accusation than a valid option. Maybe he will be able to make it seem more realistic when he presents his actual case, and offers his witness testimonies. But if he sticks with Roy Kronk as the one who dumped the body, then she will end up on Death Row, imo.

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I agree with every word.

Disguiseduser0308 said:

I hear what you're saying, Aedrys. I just don't attribute that much to ICA. She's not smart enough to plan a murder. I realize this goes against everything that is the SA's theory of how Caylee died, but I have never believed ICA planned this. She's always flown by the seat of her pants.

I've never thought the thefts and Caylee's demise were planned. It goes against everything we know of her.. she's impulsive and lives 10 mins at a time. How can we now think she planned to murder people months in advance?

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BBM

I don't think she PLANNED the murder months in advance. I think she FANTASIZED the murder months in advance. To me there is a big difference between the two. Casey obviously fantasizes a whoooooooole lot. I think the searches show someone in the midst of fantasizing. The different methods of death are so various because she was enjoying thinking and imagining each scenario. Heck I think she wasn't even sure exactly who she was going to kill, maybe her parents, maybe Caylee, maybe both. She wanted to kill them all that's for sure. In the end I think Casey just killed the person who was easily accessible and easy prey when her rage finally boiled over. And that just happened to be Caylee. I shudder to think what may have happened to George and Cindy if Cindy gave Casey just one more day....

When is Robyn going to testify? I can't wait. Sounds like it could happen this week. Anyone know?

Casey's Pen Pal Returns To Orange Co. Jail

"Investigators said Adams also told them that Anthony would give Caylee "stuff" to make her sleep. Anthony and Adams discussed chloroform, and Anthony told Adams she would give the toddler "antihistamines or something" because she had difficulties getting her to take naps."

http://www.wesh.com/casey-anthony-extended-coverage/28173699/detail.html

Dr.Fessel said:

and she said they were throwing up.

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Wonder if chloroform has that effect on dogs?...

Pardon me please! At the risk of sounding like a total duh...me!
Where are the matriarchs in this union of CA and GA?
OK! ICA is a bad seed so to speak. What about mommy and daddy? Why aren't their parents coming forward to support the children they produced?
Where are the great grandparents of that angel and why aren't we hearing ANYTHING FROM THEM?

IMO this speaks VOLUMES! I get why no one supports ICA. NOT ONE FAMILY MEMBER HAS COME FORWARD ...ATTENDED ANY HEARING to my knowledge ...
something stinks BIG TIME on HOPESPRING DR.and it isn't Caylee or ICA.
Those family members know and are PURPOSELY AVOIDING SOMETHING.
but what and why?
MOO

gngr~snap said:

Pardon me please! At the risk of sounding like a total duh...me!
Where are the matriarchs in this union of CA and GA?
OK! ICA is a bad seed so to speak. What about mommy and daddy? Why aren't their parents coming forward to support the children they produced?
Where are the great grandparents of that angel and why aren't we hearing ANYTHING FROM THEM?

IMO this speaks VOLUMES! I get why no one supports ICA. NOT ONE FAMILY MEMBER HAS COME FORWARD ...ATTENDED ANY HEARING to my knowledge ...
something stinks BIG TIME on HOPESPRING DR.and it isn't Caylee or ICA.
Those family members know and are PURPOSELY AVOIDING SOMETHING.
but what and why?
MOO

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The media ?

roseofsharon said:

Some of the medical terms searched -- meningeal/hypovelmia seem too educated/sophisticated (for lack of a better word) for KC unless she heard them from watching too much CSI or from CA, nurse.:twocents:

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I think she probably copy pasted those terms from whatever article/page she was reading in an effort to find out what they meant. I don't think she "heard" the words anywhere.

Soulmagent said:

The media ?

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Maybe, but the media wouldn't stop me from supporting my child or my great grandchild. I can choose to have no comment.
Secrets must run deep in this union- and the dis association of the relatives screams ISSUES!!!
MOO

Eileen730 said:

Good Evening My websleuther fiends i mean friends!

After hearing about all the things searched on her computers the neck breaking,
internal injuries, ruptured spleen etc etc do any of you think she was going to
harm her parents?

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I definitely think that was her initial plan, and I think that is what peaked her interest in chloroform to begin with.
I typed out a scenario somewhere on this thead earlier this afternoon where ICA would chloroform her parents while they slept, and make it look like they had been killed in a home invasion & she would pretend to find their bodies. But, I think it is even more likely she had planned on making it look like a murder/ suicide. Remember, she had been telling a lot of people her parents were having major marital problems, that her mother was crazy, that there was too much drama at home, etc.......... [I apologize for the lack of proper paragraphs, but I am trying to type this from my Kindle. Very cumberson] .

Soulmagent said:

I also think the jury is going to have issues with thinking Casey moved a days old body herself ,alone. Since Baez gave them an option to consider GA moving the body they have doubt there to.

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I don't see why Casey couldn't have moved a two year old's body by herself, alone. Introducing more people into the conspiracy just makes it more improbable IMO. I can't see why George would have let her drive with the baby in her trunk until the car was stinky beyond redemption. I don't consider this reasonable doubt, it's just an alternative scenario that makes it more complicated with extra variables and I would use the Occam's razor to get rid of the unwanted stubble.

katydid23 said:

I do not think Baez really 'gave them an option.' It seems more like he made a wild accusation than a valid option. Maybe he will be able to make it seem more realistic when he presents his actual case, and offers his witness testimonies. But if he sticks with Roy Kronk as the one who dumped the body, then she will end up on Death Row, imo.

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I don't know if changing the story at this point would work too well either...? Unless he comes up with some sort of a story that somehow points to Roy Kronk as a bad guy in here the jury is going to remember the opening statement and scratch their heads, "Hey, what happened to that Kronk guy we were supposed to have an AHA moment about, was that just another of Miss Anthony's lies? And it didn't work because of something the State presented and they changed it at the last minute. It's got to be another lie, otherwise they'd have told it way earlier."

smart blonde said:

I definitely think that was her initial plan, and I think that is what peaked her interest in chloroform to begin with.
I typed out a scenario somewhere on this thead earlier this afternoon where ICA would chloroform her parents while they slept, and make it look like they had been killed in a home invasion & she would pretend to find their bodies. But, I think it is even more likely she had planned on making it look like a murder/ suicide. Remember, she had been telling a lot of people her parents were having major marital problems, that her mother was crazy, that there was too much drama at home, etc.......... [I apologize for the lack of proper paragraphs, but I am trying to type this from my Kindle. Very cumberson] .

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YEP! IMO murder suicide ... she'd never be a suspect. Too bad karma got her before she pulled that off...
go ahead kill your parents! oops I. took your kid!
sorry, but I believe God saved Caylee from a terrible life.
MOO

gngr~snap said:

Maybe, but the media wouldn't stop me from supporting my child or my great grandchild. I can choose to have no comment.
Secrets must run deep in this union- and the dis association of the relatives screams ISSUES!!!
MOO

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Other than one brother of Cindy's and her parents, everyone else to my knowledge is out of State. Cindy's father is in the nursing home and her mother is on the witness list and up in age. One of her brother's, "Rick" is also on the witness list. As far as I know, both Cindy and George are in court most days. They are doing the best they can IMO, especially under the circumstances. Would I be so quick to support one of my children that was capable of such things? I don't think so.

wenwe4 said:

They are saying on HLN (sorry error fixed now) that it takes 24 hours for the body to begin to have evidence of decomp ( not sure I believe them).....what we have is the body was in 2 places.....the same spot in the backyard that both dogs hit on and final alerted to that is away from the pool, and in her car trunk....what if she triple bagged little Caylee out on the grass and then returned her to the trunk? how long does a body have to lay on the gound for the dogs to alert to? we know that she laid there long enough for the alert to happen....

also the lid of the sandbox may be big enough to cover her little body if she needed to leave it in the backyard for any length of time (ie: borrowing a shovel after realizing skin was starting to break down? this also leads me to believe that the duct taping happened before this time as well.....peri-mortem before decomp happened..... that may be a big factor in Dr. G's testimony .....just some ideas firing my neurons currently....

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Hi all...I have been reading all day here and had to jump in about the decomp time after death. I have not read the whole thread so maybe this has already been addressed, but it's nowhere near 24 hours for decomp to be at a stage where a dog could hit on the scent. It might be that long or longer for humans to notice decomp, but a dog can detect the scent in about 2 hours. This can vary a bit depending on factors like weather, where the body lays for that time, age of the victim, if they had health issues prior to death. A lot of factors can make the time more or less but 2 to 3 hours is average. For a small child the time would likely be less.

I googled for this info...only looked at the site once...but may read up more on the subject on other sites.

It looks like little Caylee had to be deceased about two hours minimum before being laid on the ground by the playhouse, in order for scent to be left there for the dogs to find.

Sorry for the repeat info if this has been addressed already.

ETA Yikes, I've been reading all day and half the night!! I didn't realize it was 4 AM already.

Baznme said:

Other than one brother of Cindy's and her parents, everyone else to my knowledge is out of State. Cindy's father is in the nursing home and her mother is on the witness list and up in age. One of her brother's, "Rick" is also on the witness list. As far as I know, both Cindy and George are in court most days. They are doing the best they can IMO, especially under the circumstances. Would I be so quick to support one of my children that was capable of such things? I don't think so.

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touche'
Ok I'm on the same page with ya!
I wouldn't support my child if he/she killed my grandchild.
BUT I'd support my child if my grandchild killed my great grandchild...
KWIM?
MOO

gngr~snap said:

Maybe, but the media wouldn't stop me from supporting my child or my great grandchild. I can choose to have no comment.
Secrets must run deep in this union- and the dis association of the relatives screams ISSUES!!!
MOO

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Why would Casey's grandmother support her after she stole from an assisted living account to pay a phone bill? That's about as low as it gets. I know she "promised to clean" for Gramma...but she didn't want her around. Plus it's a media circus and she has to take care of her husband I would think.

Horace Finklestein said:

Why would Casey's grandmother support her after she stole from an assisted living account to pay a phone bill? That's about as low as it gets. I know she "promised to clean" for Gramma...but she didn't want her around. Plus it's a media circus and she has to take care of her husband I would think.

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NOOOOOO!
SP supporting CA!
not CASEY!
I'm sorry for the confusion.

LancelotLink said:

I'm still catching up on the trial. On part 10. What blows my mind is how JB accuses the IT forensics guy of advertising off of this "high profile" case, when he and his has done the rounds in ways this guy will never be able to. I have noticed that the DT falsely accuse others of doing what they ARE doing. Deflect much?

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Can't forget he also gets perturbed if someone has lied.....imagine that???

tracy87 said:

isn't it funny:

all we hear from the media: "innocent until proven guilty", "there is NO concrete evidence", "there is NO proof", yada yada.

yet, casey accuses her father and brother of sexual molestation (not even in her own voice, but through a third person) with no evidence, no proof, no witnesses, NOTHING. and these defense media talking heads act as if george is ABSOLUTEY guilty.

very frushtrating. i can't swallow.

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I give half of the talkin' heads a pass on judging Casey's family but in honesty, you're right--they try hardest to be fair to her.

It is a nasty case and I recall a time when many here, myself included, thought up scenarios and felt deep resentment towards her family--heck, I think most of the country did.

I can't recall a single case I've followed or watched where there were protesters in front of the home like the Anthony's--not even the JonBenét case with vigil folk.

I still to this day feel like Lee is a punk, even if I feel less harsh towards him now. I didn't feel much for George when he tried to off himself, either. I thought him VERY selfish. (some of this they did with their own behavior, yes, it was stress and crazy unknowing--but was the same for public--it changed for them, it changed for us)

Cindy is a tough nut, not the most likeable but she is the person I've been most angry with, but always held the most understanding and respect for, too. She has pulled the heaviest load, for the longest with this family. I hope she quits pulling soon.

To watch her as just a sobbing head of hair was too much. Her grand baby, her pride-and-joy is gone in the most horrid of ways, now her baby, her precious daughter is on trial for her life.

This is all real life but yet I've been a sick side-line gawker and I pray this woman can find peace. She can't stop loving Casey no matter what Casey has done, she can only blame herself--dear God...help and bless her.

Cindy can't stop her love no more than we can stop the sun from shining, that is what being a mom is about--I only pray Cindy can get some tiny peace when this is all over, I also pray this trial is final and she won't need to keep re-living this nightmare.

I've hated Cindy but I have admired the L out of her, too-- she shows just how defensive and protective a mom will become. Casey has her mother and no matter how wrong---had Casey told the truth--Cindy would have walked hand-in-hand with her through it. Even if she had hurt/killed Caylee.

Casey was too selfish, self absorbed and fearful (loss of ego fear, not torture) Casey would rather let let parents be tortured, humiliated, her child die--than suffer one discomfort real or imagined. Hell, "chew her arm off" to get away from her daughter.

God bless Cindy, her family, and may He give Casey just what she deserves.

passin_through said:

I've not read mention of this, forgive if it has already been been mentioned.

I had O'Reilly on earlier and some woman came on to comment about the case (I was only half listening, so I don't know who she was)

Anyhow, she called Casey a Mona Lisa! I 'bout fell out my chair! I thought Casey was an attractive girl when all this started, not as much now. But Mona Lisa?!?!

I think she went a little over the edge there...

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Do you think, since you were only half-listening, you may have misheard her and she actually said 'a moaning liar'?