What evidence does the prosecution have?

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wowitsdark said:
As was pointed out, however, at that point in time, nobody had a clue this case would become a national issue.

There would have been no reason for GZ to think he needed to create a cover story at that point. He had already been questioned at length by the police the night before, and I would assume that the stories he told each of them (the police and the Dr.) align.
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Didn't GZ also move out of his home very early on---before the media caught on?
 
suzihawk said:
Yes, I'm sure it's documented seven ways to Sunday. However, the doctor can't document when and where Zimmerman received his injuries except from what Zimmerman says.
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Correct. And the "how" of the injuries only mattered AT THE TIME as to how the doc would evaluate and treat GZ's injuries. For example, patients sometimes present several days after what they describe as a fight, with hand injuries. It's important for the provider to elicit exactly how the fight went down-- because a "fight bite" is a situation that, if untreated, can cause a hand infection that threatens the function of the owner's hand. (Fight bite being a punch where the puncher impacts the mouth or teeth of the punchee. Mouths are dirty, bacteria wise.) Systemic antibiotics may be prescribed for a "fight bite" knuckle injury that is a few days old and showing signs of festering-- whereas a knuckle injury from a more innocuous source may be simply cleaned and a topical antibiotic applied. Hand infections (or potential infections) are taken seriously in the healthcare profession, due to all of the complex mechanisms that produce function of a hand.

So the doc's history of how the injury happened IS according to GZ's report in this scenario-- which was NEVER written for a court, but for medical care. The documentation of "how" the injury happened would be classified as heresay in court-- because the documentor (the doctor) didn't see the injury occur. The doc is a witness to the injuries, not the mechanism of action that produced the injury. His PURPOSE in inquiring would be explained as I did-- to determine the medical course of treatment for GZ. So it would hardly be "evidence" of what happened in a court of law.
 
Just K said:
Oops, it was `13.9 miles from GZ's house. So, almost 14 miles to go for a Family Practice. Just seems odd, especially if it was so urgent.

http://www.altamontefamilypractice....ntent&view=category&layout=blog&id=8&Itemid=8
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I do not find it odd. If he had a regular physician and his condition was not 'emergency' in nature, and if it was during regular business hours, it would make sense to me that he would want to try to get in with his regular - and probably less expensive than urgent care - physician.

It is possible that his insurance, if he had any, only covers urgent care under certain conditions.
 
suzihawk said:
Yes, I'm sure it's documented seven ways to Sunday. However, the doctor can't document when and where Zimmerman received his injuries except from what Zimmerman says.
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This is exactly why the records are so important. MDs will document injuries AND the patient's account of how those injuries were sustained. HOWEVER, post-examination, if the MD felt there was a disconnect - IOW, didn't believe the injuries were consistent with what the patient was saying - he might not confront the patient, but he may very well document that it in the records. Even if he didn't document it, I am sure the MD will be deposed and questioned extensively on whether the injuries were consistent with GZ's story. He surely would have no reason to be anything but truthful.
 
Just K said:
http://www.altamontefamilypractice....ntent&view=category&layout=blog&id=7&Itemid=4
Areas of Specialty.

There is one doctor who specializes in Osteopathy. He is a DO and not an MD. There is a Physicians Assistant and A PA-C, whatever that is...

I would be curious as to whether GZ had ever been to this DO or this Family Practice before February 27, 2012.
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PA-C is a certified Physician Assistant.

A D.O. is licensed under the same medical board as an MD nowadays. Their education differs in the historic "philosophy" of the medical school. Osteopaths are more "holistic" in the philosophy of their educational programs. They once (historically) were trending toward a more "skeletal" explanation for disease, as chiropractors do-- but have diverged in the past many decades to become more aligned with mainstream MD programs.
 
wowitsdark said:
I do not find it odd. If he had a regular physician and his condition was not 'emergency' in nature, and if it was during regular business hours, it would make sense to me that he would want to try to get in with his regular - and probably less expensive than urgent care - physician.

It is possible that his insurance, if he had any, only covers urgent care under certain conditions.
Click to expand...

But it will seem odd if this is not his regular doctor and if there were plenty of other places in Sanford. But, given that GZ relayed through his brother that he was beating to near vegetable state and another friend who said he was beaten to a pulp, why go to a Family Practice and one nearly 14 miles away from your hometown?
 
Just K said:
But it will seem odd if this is not his regular doctor and if there were plenty of other places in Sanford. But, given that GZ relayed through his brother that he was beating to near vegetable state and another friend who said he was beaten to a pulp, why go to a Family Practice and one nearly 14 miles away from your hometown?
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Many possible reasons.

- Might be his regular family physician. A FP MD delivered all of my children and continues to be their doctor now that they are in college. It wouldn't occur to me *not* to get in with him first.

- 13.x miles isn't really that far.

- It might have been the first non-urgent-care office that had an opening to see him

- It might be the clinic his wife regularly visited, and perhaps she made the appointment for him. I have no clue where she grew up... but I am the one in our household who makes appointments for our family members and would call whomever was familiar to me, personally, if my husband did not have - or could not get in to see - a physician he regularly saw.

While it sounds like he was certainly in a world of hurt, it does not sound like his injuries were life-threatening or that they required immediate, emergent care. ASAP care, yes... but not "hurry in immediately!!" care.
 
Apparently, per the yellow pages, there are 22 listings for general medical practices in Sanford

http://yellowpages.superpages.com/listings.jsp?SRC=portals&C=Doctors&T=Sanford&S=FL&PS=5&OO=1&PP=N&STYPE=S&F=1&CP=Health+%26+Medicine^Physicians+%26+Surgeons^Family+%26+General+Practice^&RC=1&CTS=Family+%26+General+Practice+Physicians+%26+Surgeons&MCBP=true

and 86 listings for Internal Medicine (facilities)
http://www.superpages.com/yellowpages/C-Internal+Medicine+Physicians+&+Surgeons/S-FL/T-Sanford/
 
Just K said:
But it will seem odd if this is not his regular doctor and if there were plenty of other places in Sanford. But, given that GZ relayed through his brother that he was beating to near vegetable state and another friend who said he was beaten to a pulp, why go to a Family Practice and one nearly 14 miles away from your hometown?
Click to expand...

The 14 miles thing means nothing to me. GZ did not SEEK OUT an ER, or an Urgent Care. We don't know yet if this doc clinic is his regular clinic, or why he went there. However, EVEN if it was his regular clinic, he would have had to have a "same day" appt to get care in a Fam Prac clinic that fast. (IIRC-- would it have been a Monday morning?) Many outpatient clinics reserve a few same day appts for urgencies-- but dole them out according to a triage nurse. GZ would have had to pass the telephone evaluation of a gate keeper nurse to score his same day appt. So, yet ANOTHER layer of documentation supporting who saw him, who evaluated him, who "granted" him the same day appt, etc. If he wasnt a regular patient there, and it's a busy clinic, they might have advised him to go to an urgent care. They DID see him-- so for whatever reason, he passed their gatekeeper. My guess is he is in their system already, and they granted him a same day appt.

Consider if this was NOT his regular clinic, and he wanted to be seen, (and not go to ER/ urgent care), that this clinic may have been one that had an open appt. So, 14 miles is just not that far-- even in a big city. It was NOT and ER or urgent care visit. The gatekeeper nurse would have screened to make sure it wasn't an emergency.

And I discredit a lot, or most of what RZ has said in the media. The brother is an absolutely horrible spokesperson for GZ, imo. He should keep silent and out of the media if he likes/ loves his brother. IMO.
 
K_Z said:
The 14 miles thing means nothing to me. GZ did not SEEK OUT an ER, or an Urgent Care. We don't know yet if this doc clinic is his regular clinic, or why he went there. However, EVEN if it was his regular clinic, he would have had to have a "same day" appt to get care in a Fam Prac clinic that fast. (IIRC-- would it have been a Monday morning?) Many outpatient clinics reserve a few same day appts for urgencies-- but dole them out according to a triage nurse. GZ would have had to pass the telephone evaluation of a gate keeper nurse to score his same day appt. So, yet ANOTHER layer of documentation supporting who saw him, who evaluated him, who "granted" him the same day appt, etc. If he wasnt a regular patient there, and it's a busy clinic, they might have advised him to go to an urgent care. They DID see him-- so for whatever reason, he passed their gatekeeper. My guess is he is in their system already, and they granted him a same day appt.

Consider if this was NOT his regular clinic, and he wanted to be seen, (and not go to ER/ urgent care), that this clinic may have been one that had an open appt. So, 14 miles is just not that far-- even in a big city. It was NOT and ER or urgent care visit. The gatekeeper nurse would have screened to make sure it wasn't an emergency.
Click to expand...


Just wanted to say I agree and also add to what you said. If Mr. Zimmerman had already waited the number of hours that he sat through questioning, what's another 30 minutes for a drive to save a lot of money? Just a thought.
 
K_Z said:
Correct. And the "how" of the injuries only mattered AT THE TIME as to how the doc would evaluate and treat GZ's injuries. For example, patients sometimes present several days after what they describe as a fight, with hand injuries. It's important for the provider to elicit exactly how the fight went down-- because a "fight bite" is a situation that, if untreated, can cause a hand infection that threatens the function of the owner's hand. (Fight bite being a punch where the puncher impacts the mouth or teeth of the punchee. Mouths are dirty, bacteria wise.) Systemic antibiotics may be prescribed for a "fight bite" knuckle injury that is a few days old and showing signs of festering-- whereas a knuckle injury from a more innocuous source may be simply cleaned and a topical antibiotic applied. Hand infections (or potential infections) are taken seriously in the healthcare profession, due to all of the complex mechanisms that produce function of a hand.

So the doc's history of how the injury happened IS according to GZ's report in this scenario-- which was NEVER written for a court, but for medical care. The documentation of "how" the injury happened would be classified as heresay in court-- because the documentor (the doctor) didn't see the injury occur. The doc is a witness to the injuries, not the mechanism of action that produced the injury. His PURPOSE in inquiring would be explained as I did-- to determine the medical course of treatment for GZ. So it would hardly be "evidence" of what happened in a court of law.
Click to expand...

BBM---I am not a lawyer...

However it may be admissible under this exception:

STATEMENTS FOR PURPOSES OF MEDICAL DIAGNOSIS OR TREATMENT.—Statements made for purposes of medical diagnosis or treatment by a person seeking the diagnosis or treatment, or made by an individual who has knowledge of the facts and is legally responsible for the person who is unable to communicate the facts, which statements describe medical history, past or present symptoms, pain, or sensations, or the inceptions or general character of the cause or external source thereof, insofar as reasonably pertinent to diagnosis or treatment.

http://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2011/90.803
 
Just K said:
But it will seem odd if this is not his regular doctor and if there were plenty of other places in Sanford. But, given that GZ relayed through his brother that he was beating to near vegetable state and another friend who said he was beaten to a pulp, why go to a Family Practice and one nearly 14 miles away from your hometown?
Click to expand...

Better yet, why decline medical care at the scene? Why decline follow up care after the appointment as well?:moo:
 
14 miles for a specialist in an urban area is one thing but 14 miles for a General Practitioner or Internal Medicine Facility seems a bit of a stretch given the 108 yellow page listings, in the Sanford vicinity, for the same.
 
wowitsdark said:
I do not find it odd. If he had a regular physician and his condition was not 'emergency' in nature, and if it was during regular business hours, it would make sense to me that he would want to try to get in with his regular - and probably less expensive than urgent care - physician.

It is possible that his insurance, if he had any, only covers urgent care under certain conditions.
Click to expand...

A broken nose would be something I'd consider an emergency. :twocents:
 
K_Z said:
The 14 miles thing means nothing to me. GZ did not SEEK OUT an ER, or an Urgent Care. We don't know yet if this doc clinic is his regular clinic, or why he went there. However, EVEN if it was his regular clinic, he would have had to have a "same day" appt to get care in a Fam Prac clinic that fast. (IIRC-- would it have been a Monday morning?) Many outpatient clinics reserve a few same day appts for urgencies-- but dole them out according to a triage nurse. GZ would have had to pass the telephone evaluation of a gate keeper nurse to score his same day appt. So, yet ANOTHER layer of documentation supporting who saw him, who evaluated him, who "granted" him the same day appt, etc. If he wasnt a regular patient there, and it's a busy clinic, they might have advised him to go to an urgent care. They DID see him-- so for whatever reason, he passed their gatekeeper. My guess is he is in their system already, and they granted him a same day appt.

Consider if this was NOT his regular clinic, and he wanted to be seen, (and not go to ER/ urgent care), that this clinic may have been one that had an open appt. So, 14 miles is just not that far-- even in a big city. It was NOT and ER or urgent care visit. The gatekeeper nurse would have screened to make sure it wasn't an emergency.

And I discredit a lot, or most of what RZ has said in the media. The brother is an absolutely horrible spokesperson for GZ, imo. He should keep silent and out of the media if he likes/ loves his brother. IMO.
Click to expand...
I want to thank you for your informative posts and to let everyone know that your on our verified professional list as a RN and CRNA. Welcome KZ.
 
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