17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #18

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Once the police report came out and I started plotting out what it told us, I realized that there could be a reason that the story of Mary Cutcher and her roommate, Selma Mora Lamilla, was being ignored. They told a much different version of GZ's tale of a skinny kid making him afraid for his life:



There are 3 attachments below. Working from left to right,

-first you will see 3 addresses shown on the image of the back sidewalk section.

-Then you will see a portion of Officer Timothy Smith's SPD narrative telling where the body was located between 2 residences.

-Last, look who owns the unit with the most likely bird's eye view for what happened.
Birds-eye view of what? By their own admission, they weren't paying attention until after the shot. They only saw the aftermath, and even then, their stories still don't line up... Cutcher said they saw Zimmerman in two different positions when they went outside (as in, changed the position in different interviews), and their description of the sounds that were heard are clearly different from what was actually going on that night. JMO
 
Thanks. It's interesting that the videotape doesn't have a time stamp that allows him to be more accurate about when Trayvon was there.

At a minimum, it took him 45 minutes to get back into the complex, or at any rate, 45 minutes (minimum) after purchasing the items he was still outside in the complex. Which leads to a question. What was he doing with that time? He wasn't going to the store and coming back, he was doing something else, likely innocent, but whatever it was is likely the reason he appeared suspicious to GZ.

He's 17, he's out of the house and on his own for an hour or so, he's got a girlfriend, he's got a cell phone with a blue tooth. He's walking about a mile or so there and a mile or so back. I can't pull anything suspicious out of his actions there. If it wasn't raining when he left home, he probably didn't have his hoodie up. When the rain started, he pulled it over his head. Still nothing suspicious that I can see.

My problems with GZ are two things. One, when the dispatcher said they didn't need him to do that, follow TM, he should have stayed where he was. No, it's not the direct command of a LEO but it's not just an offhand suggestion. He should have stood his ground at his truck.

Secondly, he brought a gun to a shouting match, at most a fist fight. There's no valid reason to have a gun when fists are involved. I consider it very unlikely that GZ was on the ground, screaming for help. He must have been a very busy man to accomplish all the things he said he did in that time period.

As my favorite TV judge always says, if it doesn't make sense, it didn't happen.

My wrath falls on the Sanford PD as much as GZ. I've been to Sanford 4 times. It's great if you're white and rich, but mostly white. Even if GZ didn't racially profile, the SPD damn sure did. Not one of those idiots thought to check out TM's cellphone and maybe call someone on his contact list? TV cops do that all the time!

No, the SPD had a dead, black teenager with no immediate ID and sat on their duffs until the next morning.

All of the above is strictly MOO. :twocents:
 
Steven Seagal, in addition to being an actor, also serves as a reserve deputy sheriff in Jefferson Parish, Louisiana. In fact, he had his own reality program which rode along with him while he was performing his job and yes, he does have the power to arrest someone.




~jmo~

Thanks, I had no idea. Louisiana has a whole other set of rules when it comes to law enforcement. :twocents::moo::fence:
 
George Zimmerman’s Lawyer Cites ‘Shaken Baby Syndrome’ in Trayvon Martin Shooting

But Uhrig's choice of words, and use of a recognized sign of child abuse to defend a 28-year-old man who killed a kid, seemed likely to raise more than just a few eyebrows.

"We're familiar with the Shaken Baby Syndrome," said Uhrig on the CBS This Morning program. "You shake a baby, the brain shakes around inside the skull. You can die when someone's pounding your head into the ground."

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/06/us-usa-florida-shooting-idUSBRE8350D520120406

It's funny that all the major media organizations seem to understand what Uhrig had to say about shaken baby syndrome. It doesn't matter what his intention was, he should have never compared what happened to Zimmerman to shaken baby syndrome. This is a very real experience for a lot of parents and I would have thought with him being an attorney, he would have had the decency to choose his words a little more carefully. What an insult to a parent who has had to deal with this.


~jmo~
 
You are assuming Martin wouldn't have noticed Zimmerman sitting in his vehicle watching him. If, as Zimmerman claims, Martin attacked him, this could have still happened even if Zimmerman had remained in his vehicle.

TM may have seen or been keeping an eye out on GZ but it appears his primary goal was to get back to the house. He wasn't a or a gang banger, looking for a fight, he was a 17 yo, wanting to get back to the house to give the younger boy his Skittles.

He was also a visitor to the complex, he wouldn't have known anything about GZ or probably even the NW in that complex.
 
Youthful offender program? What youthful offender program did GZ go into, link please.

I thought GZ was an adult when he went through anger management. Did LE kind of change that story, so it would sound better.
 
You are assuming Martin wouldn't have noticed Zimmerman sitting in his vehicle watching him. If, as Zimmerman claims, Martin attacked him, this could have still happened even if Zimmerman had remained in his vehicle.

No, I'm not assuming that at all. In fact, I think it is probable that Martin did notice Zimmerman watching him while he was still in his vehicle.

I think Martin was acutely aware and anxious he was being watched but not truly afraid until Zimmerman followed on foot. If I were in that situation, that is when my anxiety would have escalated from mild fear to pure panic. I think that is a natural escalation, no?

Maybe I'm missing the point you are trying to make? I don't think for a minute that Trayvon would have approached Zimmerman's automobile if he remained in it.
 
Thanks, I had no idea. Louisiana has a whole other set of rules when it comes to law enforcement. :twocents::moo::fence:

Actually Louisiana has a whole bother set of rules when it comes to Law itself, Napoleonic Law. I think there may be one other state that practices Napoleonic Law. I don't know the difference, but my DH keeps me informed.
 
I still can't get a reasonable handle on what set this in motion. Wouldn't a young person who may see security guards at school, at the mall, believe that inside a gated community that someone checking him out just might be a security guard for the complex?
 
I thought GZ was an adult when he went through anger management. Did LE kind of change that story, so it would sound better.

I thought he was 20-years-old?

Kinda funny using "youthful" with a 20-year-old, but 17-year-old Trayvon was an adult. :banghead:

MOO
 
Unfortunately, or fortunately, we can agree to disagree. You say tomato, I say tomatoe. Thank you for your opinion, but the inference was there, or he wouldn't have said it. I am not the only one who feels this way. But thank you again for your insight. Defense attorney's are in the practice of throwing out anything they can against the wall to see if it will stick. Kind of reminds me of the JB defense with GA. JMO
Ah, yet again I seem to have misunderstood you! So sorry about that, and thanks for being civil about it. Please allow me to explain.

First I thought you were asking for clarification because you felt you might have misunderstood the CBS clip of Uhrig speaking. Then I thought you clarified that the inference was actually coming from the Huffpo article. My bad. Now I finally "get it" -- that it is you yourself who interpret Uhrig's remarks to mean that he implied GZ is/was suffering from SBS. No problem. Everyone has a right to his/her own interpretation.

Sheesh. There I was, attempting to "help" by providing information to clarify the issue. If I'd understood from your prior posts that the interpretation was your own considered opinion, I would never have said a word! I respect the right of each of us to have and express our own opinions.

Again, so sorry for misunderstanding. I promise I did not mean to argue! (Slinking off this thread now.... LOL)
 
I still can't get a reasonable handle on what set this motion. Wouldn't a young person who may see security guards at school, at the mall, believe that inside a gated community that someone checking him out just might be a security guard for the complex?

School security, mall security, all have vehicles and uniforms that acknowledge who they are.

Zimmerman was just some guy in a truck?

MOO

ETA: In another neighborhood I lived in, they had hired security and they also wore uniforms and drove cars that clearly stated they were "security" and had a flashing light on top of the vehicle.
 
bbm

The attorney did not hear the initial interview. He only heard the FOLLOW UP interview.

Doesn't mean he hasn't read the transcript or seen the video of the initial interview. Since the interview was with his client he would have legal access to it. Or gee maybe his client (you know the one that was interviewed) told him that.

jmo, imo and all that jazz
 
If it was in the trunk I would have thought the officer would have taken it with him seeing how far they had to walk to get where they were going in that video. That would have been the only evidence he had.

Hmm, I remember seeing one of the cops put a coat/jacket in the trunk, but he took nothing out. I know some LE stations have a place (like a box or window)to drop off service weapons. Some parts of LE stations don't allow weapons. In Providence RI not that long ago a prisoner on the 2nd floor at the LE station disarmed a detective, shot him and jumped through the window. Guns are no longer allowed where prisoners are being questioned. Don't know if SPD had one though.

:moo::moo:
 
I have calmed down a little bit. Did this "new witness" who talked to CNN tonight give her name? I just want to make sure it isn't MC?

I'm having a hard time wrapping my mind around an investigator telling any witness to a murder "who was doing what and when" when that witness is giving their statement to LE in a death investigation? Not only that it would happen once... with one witness... but a second time... with another witness? I just can't wrap my mind around it? I can't? Why would they even think they could get away with it?

You know, if there was that much corruption going on in that department, maybe Trayvon's purpose was to shine a bright light on it? I hope that with the investigation, the residents of Sanford, all of them, will, in the end, be left with a Police Department they can look up to and respect... and not a Police Department that they fear or feel pressured by.

MOO

Could be she doesn't want to be identified and could be that investigators told her to keep her identity secret and not discuss what she witnessed. Think maybe she is afraid?!
 
I still can't get a reasonable handle on what set this motion. Wouldn't a young person who may see security guards at school, at the mall, believe that inside a gated community that someone checking him out just might be a security guard for the complex?

Why would you think someone following you was a security guard unless they were in a marked car, in a uniform or otherwise verbally identified themselves as such?
 
I still can't get a reasonable handle on what set this motion. Wouldn't a young person who may see security guards at school, at the mall, believe that inside a gated community that someone checking him out just might be a security guard for the complex?

I think security guards wear uniforms. GZ was not in a uniform that I know of...

I'm pretty sure he'd of scared me'

JMO...

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk
 
School security, mall security, all have vehicles and uniforms that acknowledge who they are.

Zimmerman was just some guy in a truck?

MOO

ETA: In another neighborhood I lived in, they had hired security and they also wore uniforms and drove cars that clearly stated they were "security" and had a flashing light on top of the vehicle.
I don't know, it was raining, some distance between them, and I don't think Trayvon had his glasses on, unless of course he used contact lenses.
 
I agree with this - people should be able to walk around without fear of being suspected of doing more. Women should be able to walk at night without fear of being stalked and stared out, and made to feel afraid (real or imagined). I am staying away from home right now - not familiar with the neighborhood at all. Last night I went to walk my dogs and a guy was just standing around by the gates smoking. He watched me walk out and I could feel him watching while I walked and I started getting the creeps (my two chi-pins don't instill fear, they just annoy). I let them pee and started walking back to my place while one was still in mid stream. I couldn't get back in and lock the door fast enough.

This guy, and he was either spanish or white, hard to tell in the dark, really scared me. He wasn't doing anything but watching me. In my mind though, I know the guy could overtake me easily - so I made sure I was somewhere safe quickly. I had my cell, but I'd have felt really silly calling 911 at that point.

What I would not have done is say eff it, I have a right to be here as much as he does. Would I ask him what the he** he's looking at, no, that would be weird. So this is all on me ... until he starts following me - then I have to make some choices - a)take my bum home as fast as my legs will carry me, b)call 911, or c)put on my big girl panties and confront him. Of course I would choose "a" while simultaneously performing "b". "C", would not be an option - he could definitely take me, and he might have a gun. In Texas, the gun is always a pretty good bet.

Sounds scary.

So there is my sticking point - why didn't Trayvon just keep running all the way home if GZ was scaring him? The ONLY thing I can come up with is he wasn't scared and wanted to put a little fear into this *advertiser censored** 'le. Right or wrong, this is all I can come up with....and that it backfired, TM didn't consider there might be a gun.

He ran to where the guy with the car could no longer continue following him, then thinking he had lost him and that he was safe -- fifteen seconds run from his door -- he went back to talking to his girlfriend. With his hoodie up in the rain he never noticed GZ coming up behind him until it was too late.

When I get scared, I also get ticked off because I feel so helpless. I always think if I were a guy I could at least confront the jerks. So do I blame TM if this is what happened? Not at all - good for him. I just don't think anyone is going to buy that he was scared - and therefore, the arrest will never happen. I hate the SYG law as it applies to this case - but I hate more that Trayvon didn't just walk or run away from it. Guns give otherwise cowardly jerks confidence.

If Trayvon NEEDED to sprint all the way home in order to be safe from Zimmerman, if he needed to hide inside to avoid being killed, then the problem is not with Trayvon.

Trayvon had a right to be there, he had a right to be outside, he had a right to walk or stand on his own sidewalk, he had a right to not be harrassed, he had a right to ignore this clown, he had a right to STAND HIS GROUND. What Trayvon did instead was run. He ran away from the scary guy. He ran all the way to where the potential maniac in the car could no longer follow him, to where he was safe in the middle of all these houses.

Except he wasn't safe ever there.

Zimmerman, on the other hand, had no legal authority to do any of the things he did. Not as a private citizen, and not as a neighborhood watchman. He's not empowered to stop and question people he doesn't like and expect answers. Even the police cannot just stop random people and demand to know their identity and business. Nor was Zimmerman empowered to follow people around, scaring them. That's not his job, it's no one's job. Again, even the police are not allowed to follow people for no reason.

As scary as your encounter was, let's expand on it. Instead imagine that your creepy guy was following you as you took your walk. He's behind you in his car, so you cut through an ally. He's waiting on the far side. Staring, watching you, creeping along in his car. Then he gets out of his car in front of you. You have enough of this nut and you run for it.

Now YOU would likely go all the way home and then phone 911. I would too, and I am an adult male. But Trayvon was a young, black, teen boy -- and taken together that's a powerful disincentive to phone the police. Trayvon, Mr Macho, didn't even tell his girl that he had ran, he said just walked real fast. In short, he did what any teen boy would do, he got away from the nut and went back to his business. That business being girls.

We can stand back and critique Trayvon's survival performance. We can say 'If only he had done this or that, run here, jumped there, gone home, locked his door, climbed a tree, bought a snickers instead of skittles, or whatever.' That's okay to discuss when we are trying to figure out how to survive if we find ourselves hunted by a maniac, but let us not make the mistake of confusing our critique with assigning blame. We don't blame a woman for drinking at a party, or wearing a short dress, or looking attractive, we blame the monster who raped her. We don't blame the little girl helping the nice man find his 'lost puppy.' we blame the monster who slaughtered her.

And here, I don't blame the kid walking home from 7-11 in the rain with candy for his little brother. I blame the <mod snip> who hunted him down and killed him.
 
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