GZ Case - Defense Perspective

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Dr.Fessel said:
I have no idea where that 10 percent comes from but I do know the events of that night can be explained by several of those side effects.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0000166/


aggressive or hostile behavior

believing things that are not true

feeling unusually suspicious of others

slow or difficult speech
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The 10% came from your post, but here's a link that doesn't even assign a percentage to the psychiatric side effects because they are categorized as "rare."

http://www.drugs.com/sfx/adderall-side-effects.html
 
AJ Noiter said:
I don't understand the bold, mind elaborating?
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Quite simple really, guns and drugs = tragedy as is shown by this case. If you've ever lost someone to senseless violence, it's easier to understand.

This really is O/T so we'd best get back to this case. Thanks
 
So far we don't know what type of injuries TM had on his knuckles. If it is bruising and swelling that goes to hitting GZ. No one has denied that TM hit GZ. If there are scrapes then only concrete residue will prove that abrasions came from concrete as opposed to sand in the ground. We'll find out soon enough.
 
Karmady said:
Iirc, there were a ton of posts here when the funeral home guy said he had no wounds other than the gun shot that Trayvon couldn't have possibly been banging George's head on the ground because his knuckles would have been scraped. Well, now we know that they were. At best for the State, they may evidence a fist fight and we still don't show who started it. jmo
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I said in an earlier post that the funeral director either misspoke or lied when he talked to the media. After finding the CBS Miami story, I will go on record that in my opinion he outright lied. They would have printed Trayvon at the morgue during the autopsy. The funeral director would have cleaned his hands and could not have possibly missed the cuts.{MOO}

In dressing the body we could see no physical signs he had been in a fight or a scuffle. That is something we would have had to cover up had it been there,” said Richard Kurtz of Roy Mizell and Kurtz Funeral Home in Fort Lauderdale.

Zimmerman told police Martin attacked him, punching him in the nose and slamming his head against the sidewalk. Kurtz says all he saw on Martin’s body was a gunshot wound to the chest.

“He looked perfectly normal to me. The story just doesn’t make sense that he was in some sort scuffle or fight,” he told CBS4 News. “I didn’t see any signs of any cuts on his neck or his face.”
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http://miami.cbslocal.com/2012/03/29/funeral-director-no-signs-of-scuffle-on-trayvon-martins-body/
 
Karmady said:
The 10% came from your post, but here's a link that doesn't even assign a percentage to the psychiatric side effects because they are categorized as "rare."

http://www.drugs.com/sfx/adderall-side-effects.html
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To me the rarity means nothing in this case, he presented all those side effects that night as far as I am concerned. It is the whole case in a nutshell. Look how rare it is for an armed Neighborhood Watch Captain to shoot an unarmed teen. About as rare as it gets but it still happened. IMO
 
octobermoon said:
But this isn't about countless children, this is about a man who shot a teenager. We don't know if he was taking this on-label or off the street.

I hope you are okay. I didn't know you have to go to the ER for regular treatment. :( That's not good. Take care.
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It's not about countless children or George. It's about side-effects of a drug that wouldn't be prescribed to countless children if it generally would be expected to produce horrible psychiatric side effects.

And we do know that he got it from a treating physician because that very treating physician (thanks for pointing that out Dr. Fessel) said so.

And, jftr, I've been to the ER probably 5 times in my entire life. Which is why I was surprised to see an rx that I reported one time years ago on my current record last time I was there. Healthy as a horse here. So no worries :)
 
So far the injuries to TM's knuckles have only been described as injuries, correct. So why is everyone assuming that they are abrasions or scrapes. They may simply be swelling and bruising like one gets when they hit something harder than their knuckles.
 
pcrum12 said:
Exactly. My 16 yr old takes 20mg of adderall daily for ADHD. He is not any of those things that are being posted. It helps him focus on school work. As far as side effects, has anyone even read the side effects to all meds? Even over the counter meds? I think ppl are jumping to bad conclusions IMO.
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That is the same dosage my son in high school. He was diagnosed as ADHD back in pre-school and took Ritalin until he got to high school. A/B student with it. Tried several times to take him off it but his grades dropped to C/D.

The only side effect my son had from taking it was a lose of appetite. In the summer when he didn't take it he gained weight and was always hungry. As soon as he went back to school and started his meds again he lost weight.
 
Cher352 said:
That is the same dosage my son in high school. He was diagnosed as ADHD back in pre-school and took Ritalin until he got to high school. A/B student with it. Tried several times to take him off it but his grades dropped to C/D.

The only side effect my son had from taking it was a lose of appetite. In the summer when he didn't take it he gained weight and was always hungry. As soon as he went back to school and started his meds again he lost weight.
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Same with mine. Lose of appetite and weight lose.
 
Just K said:
So far the injuries to TM's knuckles have only been described as injuries, correct. So why is everyone assuming that they are abrasions or scrapes. They may simply be swelling and bruising like one gets when they hit something harder than their knuckles.
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I thought that bruising and swelling would not happen after the heart stops beating. If they were "swollen" or "bruised" I figured the coroners report would say so. I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. :)

{MOO}
 
tpgks said:
I thought that bruising and swelling would not happen after the heart stops beating. If they were "swollen" or "bruised" I figured the coroners report would say so. I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. :)

{MOO}
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TM was not dead when he was fighting back.
 
Pages not loading and severe storms moving in...just in case I disappear for a while...that is the reason :)
 
tpgks said:
I said in an earlier post that the funeral director either misspoke or lied when he talked to the media. After finding the CBS Miami story, I will go on record that in my opinion he outright lied. They would have printed Trayvon at the morgue during the autopsy. The funeral director would have cleaned his hands and could not have possibly missed the cuts.{MOO}



http://miami.cbslocal.com/2012/03/29/funeral-director-no-signs-of-scuffle-on-trayvon-martins-body/
Click to expand...

Maybe they cleaned his hands from the fingerprinting after they were done with the autopsy and before passing his body along to the funeral director. In the words of Werner Spitz, it seems it would have been
'shoddy work' not to clean up after themselves.

JMO
 
As I recall, lots of people here argued that if Trayvon Martin was hitting Zimmerman, then Trayvon Martin should have had injuries to his knuckles. Well, turns out, he did.
 
As I was messing around in Google Earth trying to clarify some things for the virtual walk through, I went to the gate near the clubhouse and noticed at least 3 cameras and at most 6. What I did notice about the cameras is that they're all pointed in the direction of the gates. If the Club House cameras are set up in the same fashion (to video people going to the club house) I don't see how it would be very beneficial for either of the litigants.

The reason I thought this was odd is because it's a lot of cameras (3 or 6) to capture vehicles entering/exiting. You'd think they'd only need two.
 
Dr.Fessel said:
I have no idea where that 10 percent comes from but I do know the events of that night can be explained by several of those side effects.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0000166/


aggressive or hostile behavior

believing things that are not true

feeling unusually suspicious of others

slow or difficult speech
Click to expand...

So would this be a valid defense, given it was a legally prescribed dosage?
 
jjenny said:
As I recall, lots of people here argued that if Trayvon Martin was hitting Zimmerman, then Trayvon Martin should have had injuries to his knuckles. Well, turns out, he did.
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But, but, but, that was when the funeral director said so! Now that is comes out that he actually *did* have injuries, they are surely defensive wounds. Right? /sarcasm
 
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