AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #15

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When we have Mark Eiglarsh, criminal defense attorney questioning dad's 911 call, I think we have a problem.

Just saying.....
 
Madeleine74 said:
:applause: THANK YOU! for a great, articulate post and using common sense. I agree completely with everything you wrote.

You know, way out there theories and assumptions and speculation are thrown around in every case. I sometimes wonder if the people conjuring up imaginative, but ultimately fictional, tales ever go back when a case has been fully resolved and note what actually took place, note who was actually involved, and note where the case ultimately went? Hundreds...no thousands of cases are available for review with the magic of the Internet.

The likely and probable is sometimes acknowledged but often discarded in favor of the more wild and creative. Sometimes it feels like I mistakenly stumbled into a fiction writing class for wannabe movie screenwriters.
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Good points. I feel it is important to be reasonable based on what little information is known. It is fine to look at every possibility, and consider everything, but in the end, I feel it is important to use that information to drive towards what is most probable based on whatever info is available.
 
Hatfield said:
This is so upsetting because there has been way too many kids and woman disappearing. This poor child did not deserve this. She needs found.

I think I am almost at the point where we should start to ask our family members to voluntarily wear an ankle monitor with GPS tracking. Seriously, they make these types of devices for our pet dogs (collars), where we can track them over the internet if they become lost for a small monthly fee.

Unfortunately, due to so many missing people, it seems we are almost at that point where something like this could be useful for humans.
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My kids have this i bought it at walmart!


http://www.bing.com/search?q=5+star...14&qs=AS&sk=&pq=5+star+emergency&sp=1&sc=3-16


they carry it with them has gps ans can immediately get 911 at the push of a button.
I tell them to tell NO ONE they have it!



Be prepared for anything with this emergency response system and child locator device by GreatCall. Reliable nationwide coverage


I also have one for myself!
 
There are people who seemingly want everyone else to stop considering all potential possibilities with regard to this little girl's disappearance and focus only on Sergio being a pervert and child killer but there is no more evidence to suggest that is the case than there is to suggest some other theories, like involvement with nefarious people. So what gives, why the attempt to steer the discussion away from considering all things and wanting everyone to develop tunnel vision?

If my desire to look at all possible angles mean I shouldnt be taken seriously, that is ok. I have found that being unpopular usually means one is right.
 
prima.facie said:
Forgive me for asking this - im still very new here - but even though the brother is a child, him being in the house during her dissapearance...wouldnt that make him a potential suspect, just like mom and dad or anyone else?

Where exactly is the line?

(Kids can be just as dangerous as adults.....
http://shine.yahoo.com/parenting/kid-psychopath-221400341.html)


[with all that said, right now I dont see him as responsible for her dissapearance, I just wanted some clarification]

Thanks :)
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The brothers are off the table for discussion as POIs, etc. UNLESS LE gives us some reason to go there. So far, LE has NOT provided any reason. They are minors and are considered victims in the loss of their sister. The 911 calls can be discussed and other media articles, but the minors should be referred to by their initials ONLY.

I hope that helps. If you have other questions, please feel free to pm any Mod and they will give you hand.

Thanks,

Salem
 
PAXIMUS said:
I would love to see the evidence that suggests Sergio harmed his daughter intentionally. I just havent seen any.
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I don't know if he harmed her or not but in the 911 call, I can clearly notice SC distancing himself from his daughter.

Talking to TPD, he says , I need to report a missing child. I believe she was abducted from my house. TPD had to ask him if he was referring to his daughter and then he says yes.

He mispells her name. It appears he gave the wrong birth date. When asked for Isabel's height, he gives TPD his wife's height, etc etc etc.

He then goes on to talking about himself and what I would consider setting up an alibi.

:moo:

http://cms3.tucsonaz.gov/files/poli..._911_audio_ref_isabel_celis_investigation.pdf
 
PAXIMUS said:
There are people who seemingly want everyone else to stop considering all potential possibilities with regard to this little girl's disappearance and focus only on Sergio being a pervert and child killer but there is no more evidence to suggest that is the case than there is to suggest some other theories, like involvement with nefarious people. So what gives, why the attempt to steer the discussion away from considering all things and wanting everyone to develop tunnel vision?

If my desire to look at all possible angles mean I shouldnt be taken seriously, that is ok. I have found the being unpopular usually means one is right.
Click to expand...

I personally cannot get over the no-contact CPS order for his other children. Even in Sky's case, Julia was allowed supervised visits with little M. In Kyron's case, Terri was allowed supervised visits with Kyron's half-sister. Even Josh Powell was allowed supervised visits.

Something is seriously wrong if he is not allowed contact. But, that's just me and MOO.
 
Hatfield said:
Another observation I had last night when the friend was asked by NG about whether the father could visit with the kids, the friend indicated that the father told him he could not answer certain things. NG picked up on that, and was thinking maybe the father does have a lawyer because someone obviously was advising the father that he could not talk about certain things.

This does not confirm whether or not he has a laywer, but it was interesting, and kind of leans that way.
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The way I understood it, it sounded like LE advised him not to share the information as too why the kids were taken away. JMO
 
DTT715 said:
Huge favor to ask so that I don't have to re-read all of the previous threads...

General breakdown of how the drug/cartel theory came about? Many thanks!
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Not sure where this will fall as I'm trying to catch up, so my apologies if it's been answered already.

Some locals on the board have heard rumors around town that SC is involved in some type of cartel in one way or another. These members did some digging and found possible but not verified connections to F&F based on last names along with a possible connection to one TPD LEO (IIRC). The theory along with articles on F&F were posted in the previous thread to see if any of us sleuthers could verify if these are indeed familial connections or last name coincidences. MOO

When I get to my computer I'll try to link those posts and articles...on my phone right now and typing is hard enough. Lol
 
mck16 said:
This is a comment on Uthagen posts and using yours as you commented and agreed with the post.

I just logged in for the first time in a few days, and this long post greeted me smack dab in the face. Uthagen I am sure has links or can provide confirmation of the points they posted here. I do not see any indication it is just their 'opinion', so I would like some proof. These are huge allegations to be posted unfounded. And I believe not allowed on WS. Sorry, if you posted these as opinion only, I must of missed your indication of that.

The police consider Sergio Celis the prime suspect. Link please for all.
Sergio was chiefly responsible for whatever happened to Isabel.
Becky Celis knows more than she has let on about Sergio's involvement.

Etc, etc, etc. I am interested to know where this information you are so sure of came from. tia
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utahagen did NOT stating those opinions as facts, please reread the post and note what I have highlighted in red in his/her post:


utahagen
Registered User Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 15

It's obvious, websleuthers...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think it's time to put aside arguments and theories about random sexual predators or irate drug dealers who could have sneaked into the Celis house and spirited Isabel away.

The Tuscon police have done an outstanding job so far. They put a wedge between Sergio and Becky BEFORE they have lawyered up. They have isolated Sergio from his sons, who may know something that points to Sergio that they have been afraid to tell police. They shrewdly waited to release the 911 tapes until the parents had spoken in public. By waiting to release the tapes, which surely would have led to a defense lawyer's grabbing the Celises and telling them, "Retain me and shut your mouths", the police have given the Celises enough rope to hang themsleves.

I believe the following points are obvious:

1) The police consider Sergio Celis the prime suspect.
2) Sergio was chiefly responsible for whatever happened to Isabel.
3) Becky Celis knows more than she has let on about Sergio's involvement.
4) When Sergio called 911, he knew for sure either that Isabel was already dead OR that she was 100% safe someplace. My point is: Sergio was very relaxed during the 911 call, which he would not have been had he really thought Isabel had been abducted by a stranger.
5) It is unlikely that Isabel is being safely kept someplace (see #4 above) because Sergio and any helpers would have released her by now, since the tide is turning against Sergio.
6) The reason Sergio has agreed to be cut off completely from his sons is because CPS has info directly related to Isabel's disappearance that will get him in hot water if CPS has to go to court to cut off contact between Sergio and the boys. Sergio has agreed to stay away so that info doesn't get out (yet).
7) People are not completely cut off from their children by CPS -- meaning not allowed even supervised visits or monitored phone calls -- unless there is something very serious at stake. So, let's stop with the Sergio-needs-time-away-to-process-all-this nonsense.
8) None of the Celises is in the crosshairs of Mexican drug dealers. If that were the case, they'd be in protective custody.

I simply can no longer take seriously websleuthers who still maintain Sergio was uninvolved with Isabel's disappearance. Sergio's call to 911 was a bizarre joke and a defense attorney's nightmare. Last week, I thought I had lost my wallet and called my parents to see if I had left it at their house. I was significantly more distressed when asking my mother to look for my wallet than Sergio was telling 911 his daughter had been "abducted".
 
"Sorry, if you posted these as opinion only, I must of missed your indication of that."

I opened my post with: "I believe the following points are obvious..."

So, yes, you did miss my indication the points are my opinion.
 
Madeleine74 said:
:applause: THANK YOU! for a great, articulate post and using common sense. I agree completely with everything you wrote.

You know, way out there theories and assumptions and speculation are thrown around in every case. I sometimes wonder if the people conjuring up imaginative, but ultimately fictional, tales ever go back when a case has been fully resolved and note what actually took place, note who was actually involved, and note where the case ultimately went? Hundreds...no thousands of cases are available for review with the magic of the Internet.

The likely and probable is sometimes acknowledged but often discarded in favor of the more wild and creative. Sometimes it feels like I mistakenly stumbled into a fiction writing class for wannabe movie screenwriters.
Click to expand...

And sometimes at the end of a case, all those clamouring that the parents did it are entirely off base (Jaycee Dugard, Shasta Groene, Riley Fox, etc. etc.). On some threads, it sometimes feels as I've I've stumbled into a hang-em-high mentality, the way the parents are targeted.

Respectfully, it's one thing to discuss a person's theory and provide evidence why you discount it. I think it's another to criticize people for theorizing. Often, many threads are simply full of posts about how the parents did it. I like that Isabel's thread has varied theories and lots of avenues of discussion, rather than becoming repetitive.
 
wow, what a difference between that plead and the 911 call !!!??!!
he was frantic,theatralic acting desperately while during the phone call he was calm and funny!!!!????
someone has abducted your little girl, a stranger, a perp , a paedo....and you are quite calm making that phone call and sending your other kids out there searching knowing someone has abducted your child !!!??!!!
my kid was really abducted(non family abduction), please take a look at my profile: DIRK SCHILLER
 
SurfieTX said:
I personally cannot get over the no-contact CPS order for his other children. Even in Sky's case, Julia was allowed supervised visits with little M. In Kyron's case, Terri was allowed supervised visits with Kyron's half-sister. Even Josh Powell was allowed supervised visits.

Something is seriously wrong if he is not allowed contact. But, that's just me and MOO.
Click to expand...

Terri Horman wasn't allowed supervised visits, I believe. I'll have to go check, but that she didn't fight for visitation is one reason people think that she's guilty.
 
SurfieTX said:
I personally cannot get over the no-contact CPS order for his other children. Even in Sky's case, Julia was allowed supervised visits with little M. In Kyron's case, Terri was allowed supervised visits with Kyron's half-sister. Even Josh Powell was allowed supervised visits.

Something is seriously wrong if he is not allowed contact. But, that's just me and MOO.
Click to expand...


I think a possibility is that Sergio has agreed to this, he did not fight the suggestions that CPS had. This may be the difference. If he for whatever reason also agreed that it was in the best interest of the children there would be no reason to fight it, as I'm sure he could have, but for whatever reason did not.
 
Eileen730 said:
MY sons wouldnt want their sister in the room. I dont think the statement that she didnt sleep in her own room was correct!

I can see if they are all under 8 sleeping together but heck the one is 14!


Or i can see her wandering in at night cause she is afraid of the dark or something but why not go to mom?



JMO
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Mom's room is pretty far to go in the dark if yoiu are scared. The brothers are in the next room.
 
~n/t~ said:
I don't know if he harmed her or not but in the 911 call, I can clearly notice SC distancing himself from his daughter.

Talking to TPD, he says , I need to report a missing child. I believe she was abducted from my house. TPD had to ask him if he was referring to his daughter and then he says yes.

He mispells her name. It appears he gave the wrong birth date. When asked for Isabel's height, he gives TPD his wife's height, etc etc etc.

He then goes on to talking about himself and what I would consider setting up an alibi.

:moo:

http://cms3.tucsonaz.gov/files/poli..._911_audio_ref_isabel_celis_investigation.pdf
Click to expand...

I understand some people's concern with the 911 call but I have followed hundreds of cases and I have yet to see the public NOT rip every 911 call to shreds, has there ever been a perfect 911 call where everyone is in agreement that the person did what "they were supposed to do and acted like they were supposed to act?" (Whatever the hell that means)

I have a simple rule of thumb when looking at any unknown and that is if the majority of people believe A to be true it is very likely A is false and B, C or D being the more unpopular choices, are more than likely true.

This is of course evidenced all through history with angry mobs doing things like killing the very few people who had the balls to suggest the world wasnt flat.
 
For those of you who seem to think that RC is in some way " OUTRAGED " of the separation thing maybe you should closely relisten to the mothers day interveiw. She seems releaved not to have SC around, when mentioning her boys She say's they want to get back to normal and be with Isabel... She does not in any way shape or form say the boys have a desire to be around thier father.
 
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