The cries for help

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Just curious, how many bashes of the head against cement does it take to turn one into a vegetable? I certainly wouldn't want to take the risk that one more bash might do it.

IDK. I guess you'd have to ask RZjr.

I'd suggest it would take more than the superficial wound shown in the police video that didn't require so much as a simple band aid. The same wound that EMTs didn't feel it necessary to be transferred to a hospital and that GZ, himself, didn't ask to be taken to a hospital.
 
IDK. I guess you'd have to ask RZjr.

I'd suggest it would take more than the superficial wound shown in the police video that didn't require so much as a simple band aid. The same wound that EMTs didn't feel it necessary to be transferred to a hospital and that GZ, himself, didn't ask to be taken to a hospital.

If the individual is coherent the EMTs can not force them to go to the hospital. However, Mr. Zimmerman did end up at the hospital at some point in time, as Mr. O'Mara's questioning in the bond hearing shows that medical records are available as proof to such.
 
Is there any link out there with a recording of TMs voice? Maybe a voicemail someone would have posted? Anything so we can actually hear TMs voice?

Just curious.
 
You can "should've" this to death, and so can everyone else. Mr. Martin should have asked for directions if he were as lost as people make claim, and Mr. Zimmerman was there to ask if he needed to. Had that happened this whole situation would have been avoided. I believe the first amendment protects his right to ask anyone anything he wants, and whomever he should ask a question has the right to ignore his inquiry. There is no law stating someone must identify before asking a question. I contend the easiest way to avoid the whole situation lies in my second sentence.

Are you a licensed psychoanalyst by chance?

Who said TM was lost and needed to ask for directions?

There is so much disinformation I fear this case becoming another casey anthony...difficult to sift the lies from the truth...

and no one has a right to ask me anthing I need to respond to other than LE..freedom of speech has it's time and place..if someone is following me that I become fearful, they would not get an answer out of me..I just don't understand that logic..

Who the hell is Geroge Zimmerman that anyone has to answser to HIM!
 
If the individual is coherent the EMTs can not force them to go to the hospital. However, Mr. Zimmerman did end up at the hospital at some point in time, as Mr. O'Mara's questioning in the bond hearing shows that medical records are available as proof to such.

Then they can't be that hurt!

If like his brother states, he was one step away from wearing diapers, I'd expect him to take that ambulance ASAP...not go into an interrogation for 5 hours and then cry he need stitches or a broken nose..it's too embellished to be believed...
 
If the individual is coherent the EMTs can not force them to go to the hospital. However, Mr. Zimmerman did end up at the hospital at some point in time, as Mr. O'Mara's questioning in the bond hearing shows that medical records are available as proof to such.

Yes. He waved the alleged records around in the air as he did his questioning, IIRC.

I wonder why he's dragging his feet on allowing those records to become public. Oh yeah... it's his deep concern for the witness' protection. That's it.
 
Who said TM was lost and needed to ask for directions?

I'm sorry, I wasn't saying YOU were stating this. Many people have. People have come to their own conclusion of things based on their own beliefs. For example, one person on the GZLC facebook page stated that Mr. Zimmerman got out of his vehicle and "cocked his weapon," which simply isn't possible with a double-action trigger. Someone else stated that he had a "Tec 9," and insisted it was an assault weapon (it's a Kel-Tec PF-9, not a Tec 9). The things people say to justify their own means of saying someone is guilty without a trial is saddening.

There is so much disinformation I fear this case becoming another casey anthony...difficult to sift the lies from the truth...

Even though right now my stance is that Zimmerman is innocent, I agree with this 100% I do not read/watch the media because of this case and will not do so until this case is done with.

and no one has a right to ask me anthing I need to respond to other than LE..freedom of speech has it's time and place..if someone is following me that I become fearful, they would not get an answer out of me..I just don't understand that logic..

Who the hell is Geroge Zimmerman that anyone has to answser to HIM!

Everyone has the right to ask you anything they feel like asking. That is the 1st Amendment. As I stated, you also have the right to ignore their inquiry.
 
COULD he have that mentality? Sure. Could he also have the mentality that he is above the law, that his word is golden and that whatever he believes is right for him trumps all others? Sure.

I have seen the calls that he had placed before. I read the transcripts from the dispatchers and I can tell you that a good number of them were for open garage doors. No one breaking in, no one casing the joint, just open garage doors. There were also a couple of Zimmerman following a car, a motorcylce, and a guy on a bike. Zimmerman was in his vehicle at the time following and giving the dispatcher a play by play as to where the "suspect" was at the time.

MOO

Just as I suspect he was doing this time also.
 
You can "should've" this to death, and so can everyone else. Mr. Martin should have asked for directions if he were as lost as people make claim, and Mr. Zimmerman was there to ask if he needed to. Had that happened this whole situation would have been avoided. I believe the first amendment protects his right to ask anyone anything he wants, and whomever he should ask a question has the right to ignore his inquiry. There is no law stating someone must identify before asking a question. I contend the easiest way to avoid the whole situation lies in my second sentence.

Are you a licensed psychoanalyst by chance?

So now 17 year olds need to justify their presence to strangers that are following them just in case they are not perverts or people who want to hurt them but rather armed neighborhood volunteers? It never occurred to me to stop and chat with the man who got out of his car and ran after me when I was that age and walking home from the store. People who have a legitimate purpose for following someone generally say what it is. "Hey, you dropped something." "Hi, I wanted to introduce myself, I'm your new neighbor." Or even (as I did to a man walking around my neighbor's house when she was on vacation) "Sir, can I help you?"

I don't know about the other poster but I have a Ph.D. in sociology with a specialization in criminology and a bachelor's in psychology and years of experience with programming for offenders if that means anything.
 
I've seen that too Ranch, but even the prosecutor stated he estimated GZ stopped following TM about a minute prior to the phone call ending. TM's g/f said TM told her he lost GZ, and GZ states on the 911 call he didn't know where he was. That would mean GZ disconnected the call and ran like the dickens, found the hiding TM, and cornered him --shall we add here "with the help of an accomplice" that some have speculated on as well?

The only thing that makes sense is TM coming out of nowhere and confronting GZ. Funny how it seems so simple to some, like me, and so difficult to countless others, lol.

Especially with so much time elapsing between when he ran, back toward the beginning of the call, and the actual shooting. Just what was TM doing for those several minutes when it would have taken less than a minute to simply go home after he "lost" GZ.
 
I wasn't aware that we could use our own edited version of MSM videos, nice. My question would be, if it's TM screaming, why? He's on top of GZ and the screaming goes off and on for over 45 seconds.

That and the fact that no one said his mouth was covered the entire 45 - 60 seconds they were wrestling around on the ground, they were moving. It stands to reason he could have moved his head free off and on.

Mary Cutcher's, by the way, said she didn't hear screaming, that she heard moaning and then a gun shot - maybe that's when he was covering his mouth and nose? JMO

Good observation.
 
As a former 911 dispatcher myself, I can tell you that most likely whatever he called in about previous to the 26th of February is nothing out of the ordinary for a typical 911 call. I haven't heard/read about those calls so I can't say factually either way. However, it is somewhat of a red herring. His previous 911 calls have no bearing on the night in question, or the question in question.

The question was: COULD he have the mentality that he does not want to use his weapon unless it was 100% necessary. I'm not asking you to state factually because we're supposedly in a hypothetical as it is. COULD he have this mentality?
Considering that he was majoring in Criminal Justice, I imagine he has a love affair with his gun. AND the paranoia of a cop wannabe. I think he watching itching to use that gun on whomever he decided was a burglar (i.e., any young, black man). He had training on how to use the gun. I can tell you from experience that trained cops leave their weapons in the holster unless needed. I don't think that Zimmerman had that discipline.

I just finished a class in forensics with a bunch of Criminal Justice majors and EVERYONE of them "love" their guns and use them at almost any opportunity they can.
 
So now 17 year olds need to justify their presence to strangers that are following them just in case they are not perverts or people who want to hurt them but rather armed neighborhood volunteers? It never occurred to me to stop and chat with the man who got out of his car and ran after me when I was that age and walking home from the store. People who have a legitimate purpose for following someone generally say what it is. "Hey, you dropped something." "Hi, I wanted to introduce myself, I'm your new neighbor." Or even (as I did to a man walking around my neighbor's house when she was on vacation) "Sir, can I help you?"

I don't know about the other poster but I have a Ph.D. in sociology with a specialization in criminology and a bachelor's in psychology and years of experience with programming for offenders if that means anything.

I believe I stated twice that you can ignore someone when they ask you a question. I'm not sure how you go from "you can ignore it" to "they have to justify themselves."

I haven't seen anyone but State of Florida supporters say anything about running, but to be honest I haven't paid any attention to the media in a while. I prefer the facts of the case.

I would ask the person why they're following me. It may be that they're choking on something and can not get my attention vocally. It may be that THEY are lost. It may be that they're suspicious of ME and just want to know what I'm doing. There isn't a crime in any of it.

I bet you wouldn't make a rush judgement to say one person was "out for blood" or "on the hunt," etc based on a few words recorded via a non-emergency call either. The reason I asked the question was due to the determination of the state of mind Mr. Zimmerman was in. Can you tell me what state of mind he was in? I'd find it hard to believe that without talking to Mr. Zimmerman about the situation you would offer any opinion, but as I've stated before, this case and the people around it have surprised me.
 
I don't buy that for a second. If they could match those screams to Trayvon why wouldn't he say so?
They never attempted to match the sceams to Trayvon. They DID
however say that it was NOT Zimmerman. Given that, who else was out there in a situation where help was needed? If it wasn't George, was it the little old lady who lived down the street?
 
Considering that he was majoring in Criminal Justice, I imagine he has a love affair with his gun. AND the paranoia of a cop wannabe. I think he watching itching to use that gun on whomever he decided was a burglar (i.e., any young, black man). He had training on how to use the gun. I can tell you from experience that trained cops leave their weapons in the holster unless needed. I don't think that Zimmerman had that discipline.

I just finished a class in forensics with a bunch of Criminal Justice majors and EVERYONE of them "love" their guns and use them at almost any opportunity they can.

Actually he wanted to be a magistrate or a judge, not a cop. As per his father's testimony in the bond hearing.
 
I'm sorry, I wasn't saying YOU were stating this. Many people have. People have come to their own conclusion of things based on their own beliefs. For example, one person on the GZLC facebook page stated that Mr. Zimmerman got out of his vehicle and "cocked his weapon," which simply isn't possible with a double-action trigger. Someone else stated that he had a "Tec 9," and insisted it was an assault weapon (it's a Kel-Tec PF-9, not a Tec 9). The things people say to justify their own means of saying someone is guilty without a trial is saddening.

<Respectfully snipped>

I know very little about weapons but don't you have to *advertiser censored* the gun to chamber the first bullet with this gun?

As a matter of fact, one of our posters made a video demonstrating the weapon.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7R8YBayEzs&feature=player_embedded"]PF9 - YouTube[/ame]

[ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7781100&postcount=14"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - 17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #23[/ame]
 
<Respectfully snipped>

I know very little about weapons but don't you have to *advertiser censored* the gun to chamber the first bullet with this gun?

As a matter of fact, one of our posters made a video demonstrating the weapon.

PF9 - YouTube

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - 17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #23

Chambering a round is not the same as cocking. The weapon can not be cocked manually.

"Double-action

A double-action, also known as double action only (DAO) to prevent confusion with DA/SA designs, is similar to a DA revolver trigger mechanism. The trigger both *advertiser censored* and releases the hammer." - Wikipedia.

All cocking a weapon does is puts the hammer in a position where it is ready to strike the bullet.
 
I didn't know that there is a law stating that if you are lost you must ask directions from your friendly neighborhood watch volunteer who is pursuing you with a gun. Which statute is this?
 
I've got to say that I agree with you. After reading GZ's brother's statement about GZ choking on copious amounts of blood and having difficulty breathing and then listening to the frantic screams for help, I just cannot put GZ as the one doing the screaming, how on earth could he scream that loud while choking on blood and having difficulty with breathing. The person screaming doesn't appear to have a choking or breathing problem.
Isn't it interesting how Zimmerman's injuries keep getting worse with every new version that comes from the Zimmerman propaganda network (friends and family). Next think is that he has a subdural hematoma or a cracked skull. Scalp wounds bleed a great deal. He had trickles of blood on his head. Yes, he could have refused medical assistance from EMT's but he accepted the first aid. All of his "injuries" seem to have needed assistance long after their infliction. And, there is a good chance that his skull could have been cracked from "bashing" it on the sidewalk. What I don't understand is how he could have pulled out his gun while he was being so viciously attacked. Surely this hands would have been defending himself. Every new tidbit of information that comes out about him makes him look worse and worse imo
I have a child who was in a fight and he was hurt falling on the concrete. He had my car and drove home - my front seat was soaked in blood and he was still bleeding profusely when I drove him to the hospital. He require 10 staples in his head. What showed on Zimmerman in the police photo were scratches, not serious cuts.

If his injuries were so bad, the EMTs could have Baker Acted him.
 
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