Knowing all you know today about this case who do you think really killed JonBenet?
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ScarlettScarpetta
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I know I'm the minority but I will never believe that John and patsy killed jon benet. I don't believe Burke had anything to do with it either.
To me the more " evidence" I see the more convoluted it becomes. I think that there was such a mess made so early that there was so much real evidence lost and the first cops on scene were too inexperienced to handle such a crime.
I believe a stranger did this. I think it's completely possible a stranger did this. I do not find it at all plausible that anyone in the family did it.
To me the more " evidence" I see the more convoluted it becomes. I think that there was such a mess made so early that there was so much real evidence lost and the first cops on scene were too inexperienced to handle such a crime.
I believe a stranger did this. I think it's completely possible a stranger did this. I do not find it at all plausible that anyone in the family did it.
txsvicki
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I don't get why it would be thought that Jonbenet was molested before being hit in the head. The autopsy report says it was just before or actually at death. Even after Kolar's book I still can't get past thinking that Patsy did it all, even the prior trauma due to crazed cleaning of Jonbenet when she soiled or wet. One thing is for sure though, whoever strangled Jonbenet knew there had been prior vaginal trauma. I also think it happened while wearing the pink nightgown and it was going to be hidden with the body while John was out of the house on a wild goose chase.
Linda7NJ
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With all due respect, if you've come to that conclusion you are unfamiliar with the totality of evidence.
There is not a single shred of real evidence of an intruder. IMO
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SunVenus
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Hi Pirplegrl! Yes, you are in the minority of opinion on this case, but you know what? That's alright. Discussion of any and all angles can be useful.
So may I ask you: what specific pieces of evidence lead you away from suspecting one or more Ramsey's as the perps to a complete stranger doing all this? Did the intruder also commit the previous sexual abuse on JB? What was the purpose of the ransom note? Do you feel the R's know/knew the idenity of the alleged intruder? Do you feel the R's are fully inncoent, or might have been involved in some way?
I hope this doesn't sound like an attack with so many questions, I am genuinely interested in what you think.
Darlene733510
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The spot of blood on the pillow - was it from the head wound? I would think that with a head wound as bad as JB's that there would be a lot of blood. Perhaps the bash was done in the bathroom, or the kitchen, which would be easier to clean up. Somebody must have been very busy getting rid of evidence, probably in the neighbors trash cans.
If the head bash was done in the basement, or the wine cellar wouldn't there have been a stain on the concrete floor?
If the head bash was done in the basement, or the wine cellar wouldn't there have been a stain on the concrete floor?
SyraKelly
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Her head wound never bled-it was an internal wound..there are other posters here who can explain way better than me
Darlene733510,
Indirectly, yes, it likely resulted from residue issuing from JonBenet's nose.
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If I'm not mistaken I believe that holds true in all states.
Spousal privilege comes under Federal rules for Federal cases but each state has their own set of statutes. There seems to be a lot of variables at the state level. I know next to nothing about Colorado statutes and even less about interpreting them. :waitasec:
I was thinking about how spousal privilege and the cross-fingerpointing defense might have worked if the Ramseys had gone to court before Patsy died.
JB's head injury is a closed-scalp injury. Obviously if you look at the skull you can see just what a horrible injury it was- her head was cracked nearly in half- AND there was a large piece punched inward towards the brain. This part is a depressed fracture, and the crack is a linear fracture. One of the reasons why it is so important to LOOK at the autopsy photos is because it makes it very clear that this severe head injury could not have come from her falling, being dropped, or pushed into something (even a door knob).
In a closed-scalp injury, the skin has not been broken and the blood (and there WAS blood) remains under the skin. There was blood in the skull case, and around the brain. Some of this could have seeped from her nose, but the coroner did not note blood there. Her mouth was swabbed as were her nostrils, and no specific mention of blood was noted. The mucus that was mentioned was described as "tan"- to me, that means it could have been slightly blood-tinged, as blood turns rusty-brown as oxygen hits it.
Is there an account somewhere of the Ws party? Was anything ever said about the way PR and JR interacted with each other? I've read a few things about the kids at the party, but I'm curious as to what the other guests said about the Rs.
Chrishope,
mmm, your ex post explanation is seriously intellectually deficient. We now know the R's were indicted, that does not preclude BDI, it only assumes the GJ knew more or less what we now know.
The 911 call with the body in the house makes no sense so we can allow any conclusion we wish, is straight out of some logic 101 textbook i.e. from any inconsistency you may derive a truth. Lookup Godel he made constant use of this principle then ended up paranoid unable to eat, in case someone poisoned him, including Albert Einstein a friend.
PR's forensic evidence is all over the wine-cellar, despite her denial of ever visiting the location 12/24 or 12/25, so your claim that the staging is for PR is plainly inconsistent.
I rest my case.
There has been very little said about that party on the 23rd. We know that LHP was there earlier that day cleaning and helping Patsy prep, and SHE was the one who took the paint tote to the basement at Patsy's request. It had previously been in the Butler's Pantry, and Patsy planned to put a coat rack in there for her guests. What we DON'T know is whether that paint tote as found by police and photographed in situ just outside the wine cellar door is in the SAME spot that LHP put it on the 23rd. Since Patsy's fibers were found in that tray, and since Patsy denied ever wearing the jacket those fibers came from while in the basement or painting, that would be something that I'd like to know. The party on the 23rd also had something happen which caused JB to cry and say that she "didn't feel pretty". And there was a 911 call made which caused police to come to the house but they were turned away. (Is that even legal?- Where I live police MUST enter a house even when the person answering the door says that they were called by mistake).
As far as the parents' interaction- nothing was said about the 23rd as far as I know, but there WAS plenty said about the 26th after police and others were at the house. It was said that they had virtually no communication between them- that they were in separate rooms. LE has mentioned that this is SO UNLIKE other kidnapping or child injury-type situations. In a REAL kidnapping, the parents would be expected to comfort each other, or at least be in the same ROOM interacting- there would be some communication between them. Not so with the Rs that day.
This reminds me of something that bothers me. It has been reported that there were signs of 'undoing', which is a sign of remorse. IMO, if someone felt remorse, he would have undone a few other things, like the garotte, tape, etc. So, I accept LE's 'undoing' theory a little cautiously. What it looks like to me, is that once someone realized that cops would see the body, he went and did and undid a few things to make the body more presentable. Not out of remorse, but necessity... just an opinion, and I don't see much evidence to back it up, but I also don't see much evidence of remorse. There have been varying reports of when JR found JB and also some controversy over him being accounted for during the day, so IMO, who did the 'undoing' and when and why he/she did it, is up in the air. IMO, PR committed the murder, and I believe that it was probably her intention to get rid of the body. So, it's possible that the condition she left JB's body in, is not the same condition that LE saw. IMO, this may be where the 'staging within staging', that LE reportedly suspected, came into play. Anyway, I'm not 100% set on the PR theory, and now that we've learned that the grand jury voted to indict JR also, I'm rethinking a few things. He DID 'find' the body, afterall, and if that isn't a red flag, I don't know what is. But like you, I don't see evidence that points to BR, and the idea of parents finishing off one child in order to protect their other child, is insane, IMO. And I don't think either of the Rs was insane. moo.
ScarlettScarpetta
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But the thing is that I am not unfamiliar with it. I see it all and still see an intruder. I think some of the evidence is definitely up to interpretation.
It is your opinion, that there is no intruder, It is my my opinion that it was an intruder. I believe that completely. Not just with blind faith or trust in a report, But reading the facts and interpretations of facts or evidence it still sits with me that there was someone other than the family that committed this crime.
I've looked at the other side and it just does not sit well with my soul.
No they wouldn't remove the garrote and tape, etc. Those are the very things that were ADDED to the scene (especially the tape- she was already dead/dying when that was applied). They NEEDED her to appear to have been kidnapped, bound , and strangled. This made the "kidnapping" believable. (so they thought). The head bash was "secret" at this point- there was no evidence of the event that put JB instantly unconscious and possibly comatose. Even the coroner was surprised to see that fracture. This is also another indication that there was no obvious swelling of her head, face, tongue. If there had been, the coroner would be looking for why. As awful as that strangulation looks to us when we see the photos, it has been described as "gentle" in the sense that the force was not as extreme as you would see in other cases of ligature strangulation.
The Rs could have been "temporarily" insane- it does happen. Never underestimate what adrenaline can do when a person is in a situation of EXTREME fear and stress.
dodie20,
Is insanity a defense? there is patently staging within staging, which is why it might actually be BDI but amended by JR because he knew signs of sexual assault might lead straight to his front door?
if you now include Patsy then here the undoing aspect comes into play and you might get the results you noted.
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I remember reading from an observer after JB was reported kidnapped, that the Rs had very little interaction, that they seemed angry with each other, and they seemed more like a couple who were divorcing, than the parents of a kidnapped child. I don't remember if the observer was a part of LE or someone else. I was wondering if this lack of interaction started that day, or if someone at F and PW's party, (the night before), noticed it. Were they already at odds with each other or did they act like a happy couple?
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