Sheri Coleman, sons Garett and Gavin murdered 5-5-09, Columbia, IL. Pt9

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Okay all,

I started to list the things we know that are indisputable -- then I thought about what we do not yet know...

Question for those who were in court yesterday... Was the injury on Chris' arm noted as an "abrasion" or was it a "cut" (as one newsreporter said in a video after the prelim.)

I'm sure there is a photo of it, if what we heard was true that they photo'd CC's body after the fact (May 5th). I'm also sure it was "noticeable" as the police saw it and asked CC about it, as did his dad. Now then, just what did the injury look like -- how big was it (where exactly was it located), could it have "dripped blood" -- abrasions may ooze or, if very big/deep, drip blood, but they are usually (in my estimation) less likely to do so than a cut (which can pour blood).

AHA, some info...from page 5 of SW document:

>>ISP-205 Two swabs of reddish injury on the suspect's right forearm sealed in a cardboard box

ISP-206 Two swabs of scratches on the suspect's right forearm, sealed in a a cardboard box<<

Reddish injury sounds like an abrasion (a scuff of some sort). Scratches could be gouges, cuts as in cut (slices) with fingernails OR cut with wire (have we definitely learned what the ligatures were made of?)

I feel sure that they took fingernail clippings of the victims -- was Chris' skin beneath their nails? OR a ligature, was it wire (not cord) that could have cut Chris? How might Chris have received this/these injuries.

Oh I would really like to see photos of these injuries to start thinking...

Also, I wish I knew if Chris were right or left handed. Hmm...can we figure that out from the StarBucks coffee clip video?

NOW THEN, remember we heard something about a piece of mattress with blood on it that was cut away -- we saw that in one of the SW's I believe.

Uh huh, here, page 20:

>>ISP-607 sealed envelope containing piece of cloth cut from mattress in master bedroom with rbls.<<

Was this an older or "fresh" blood stain, and my bet is that it was "fresh."

We do not know so far, to my knowledge, what the injuries were to Sheri, i.e. whether she had bled at all. We do know about something on Chris. Is it possible that whatever was showing on his arm had bled and that was found on the mattress?
 
I've been listening to RC's sermons on Grace Church's website - last Sunday's and this Sunday's is about "truth". It has been a little interesting - I am probably reading between the lines, but I keep making my own inferences which may or may not be fair. Anyone want to listen and see if they see a message?
 
I'm almost certain that with any murder case that LE has the 'evidence' of guilt and the def attorney KNOWS it, an insanity plea is always considered. IMHO, it most likely will be the 'premeditation' that will be the linch pin on whether they can claim that route or not.

As with the Hacking case, it was obvious he was mentally unstable. His actions prior to the actual crime were somewhat bizarre AND he did try to cover-up his crime. However, his actions within 24 hours of Lori being reported missing SHOWED, IMHO, his delicate mental state. He acted completely bizarre and ended in a hospital because of his actions, immediately.

While Chris acted-up the day his wife and sons were found murdered, he quickly regained his sanity and lawyered up. IMHO, this points to his bizarre actions in front of the murder scene home as part of his staging. The alleged threats that have been now linked back to HIM and HIM ALONE, reek of premeditation.

Nah,...........his def lawyer, IMHO, is gonna go for the SODDI did it. Just watch. I see from a few posts I observed yesterday on other forums, they're already flying out the possible scenarios,...........ie, like I mentioned before, the chain of possession of his computer (somebody else could have sent it), the air card chain of possession, etc., etc., etc..

Who knows? Maybe this was Chris' plan all along. He knew LE would look to him so he set all this alleged threat junk up and figures there will be just ONE juror his def will be able to convince that it really was SODDI and they even set it up for Chris to take the fall.

YOUR WORST NIGHTMARE........

Killing your entire family and YOU being accused and tried and convicted.

Yeah,...........I can totally see the defense going with that one. :behindbar

JMHO
fran

This case will be like so many others . . Peterson . . . etc . . . He will never admit to this crime.
 
RC states in the first (6-7) sermon that he's had to turn off the tv's - because of the spin put on things. "He knows the truth."
I went back to listen again to make sure I understood the first time. So I guess I've answered my own question above - they really do think he's innocent.
RC is hard for me to listen to - his voice is not "trained". I'm not insulting him, just saying it bothers me.
 
I guess we're all pondering what we learned yesterday. This keeps niggling at me:

"Coleman told authorities he had a good marriage, with a difficult period a year ago that was resolved with marriage counseling, Edwards testified."

OK, that fits perfectly with the Narcissist personality. Now I'm wondering WHY and WHERE they were counseled and WHO did the counseling - RC, JMM, the Pastors at Destiny or even a stranger? Each of those would reflect a unique dynamic that could have played heavily into the subsequent developments.

None times out of ten, couples seek marriage counseling when one of them (usually the male) has strayed. From all that i have seen, it appears that Sheri was getting her groove on. This is a typical (and healthy) reaction to infidelity. She was active, attractive and loyal to her family and church. She started modeling.

Is it possible that CC, even though he was the one who wanted out, resented that Sheri was thriving in spite of his betrayal? Is that what may have prompted the attempt to defraud SC out of any property or assets? Did CC tell TL a "version" of events that hooked her into the SC haters club?

I hope they subpoena JM and put her on the stand. I hope they ask her to explain, under oath, the nature of her relationship with CC and what she knows about this tragedy. I hope they do the same to RC and to TL and to the counselor who proabably advised Sheri to "forgive and forget". I hope it ALL comes out.
 
Be interesting to see what he says in THIS Sunday's sermon.

It's the 2nd part of the "truth" sermon. (6-7 and 6-14.) At one point he said he felt like he was a black mark on the church (or something like that), but then he said he realized he wasn't. He also says something about refereeing a ball game and you can't tell what's really happening from 250 feet away (paraphrased by me). I'm getting the impression from these 2 sermons that they are to put RC and family's own spin on things.

He makes several statements in the sermons - I quit listening part way through the 2nd one - I'll listen to it later when I have more time. It was interesting, but sad... I admit, I kind of feel sorry for them - not because it is their son who did it, but because I feel they are way out of their comfort zone and also because they're grieving the loss of their grandsons - and life as they knew it. (I'm a sucker - just can't help feeling sorry for them even though I think they raised at least 2 a$$hole sons.)
 
Be interesting to see what he says in THIS Sunday's sermon.

I would bet you a dollar it isn't much different than last Sunday.

These don't seem like the kind of folks that care about little things like overwhelming evidence.

Sorry, but I'm still bugged about the whole "not-going-to-bother-talking-to-the-family-with-the-murdered-daughter-and-grandsons" thing.
 
It's the 2nd part of the "truth" sermon. (6-7 and 6-14.) At one point he said he felt like he was a black mark on the church (or something like that), but then he said he realized he wasn't. He also says something about refereeing a ball game and you can't tell what's really happening from 250 feet away (paraphrased by me). I'm getting the impression from these 2 sermons that they are to put RC and family's own spin on things.

He makes several statements in the sermons - I quit listening part way through the 2nd one - I'll listen to it later when I have more time. It was interesting, but sad... I admit, I kind of feel sorry for them - not because it is their son who did it, but because I feel they are way out of their comfort zone and also because they're grieving the loss of their grandsons - and life as they knew it. (I'm a sucker - just can't help feeling sorry for them even though I think they raised at least 2 a$$hole sons.)

I listened awhile back to a big chunk of his Halloween sermon - the one where he says that he never gave his kids Halloween, and none of them turned out "retarded."

I'm not sure I could get through a second one, to be honest. :)
 
I listened awhile back to a big chunk of his Halloween sermon - the one where he says that he never gave his kids Halloween, and none of them turned out "retarded."

I'm not sure I could get through a second one, to be honest. :)

I guess he overestimated how his sons turned out...............

And IMO, anyone who would make a statement like that is probably "retarded" themselves. Wonder if any of his parishioners have a learning disabled child? I do - (he does very well by the way) - and I can tell you I'm much prouder of the man my LD child has become than RC should be of his sons.
 
I guess we're all pondering what we learned yesterday. This keeps niggling at me:

"Coleman told authorities he had a good marriage, with a difficult period a year ago that was resolved with marriage counseling, Edwards testified."

OK, that fits perfectly with the Narcissist personality. Now I'm wondering WHY and WHERE they were counseled and WHO did the counseling - RC, JMM, the Pastors at Destiny or even a stranger? Each of those would reflect a unique dynamic that could have played heavily into the subsequent developments.

None times out of ten, couples seek marriage counseling when one of them (usually the male) has strayed. From all that i have seen, it appears that Sheri was getting her groove on. This is a typical (and healthy) reaction to infidelity. She was active, attractive and loyal to her family and church. She started modeling.

Is it possible that CC, even though he was the one who wanted out, resented that Sheri was thriving in spite of his betrayal? Is that what may have prompted the attempt to defraud SC out of any property or assets? Did CC tell TL a "version" of events that hooked her into the SC haters club?

I hope they subpoena JM and put her on the stand. I hope they ask her to explain, under oath, the nature of her relationship with CC and what she knows about this tragedy. I hope they do the same to RC and to TL and to the counselor who proabably advised Sheri to "forgive and forget". I hope it ALL comes out.


My ex-NPD-husband cheated with many women. He had a child with one, and when she wanted support that was when he finally confessed. Of course, he said it was a one night stand. He sat in a church with our pastor for marital counselling and swore that it was a one night stand. Years later the mother of the child confirmed to me that they had a long-term affair that continued even after our counselling. That poor woman went into the affair thinking he was single. Once he admitted he was married, with children, his story became, he was going to get a divorce. Then he finally admitted it was just a fling and she still went with it (those guys are masters at preying on women with low self-esteem).

Chances are CC's mistress believed his stories of woe and that his wife was frigid, controlling, etc. and she is not complicit, just a dupe. NPD's over-romanticize and are always looking for the perfect love. If SC was growing into an independent person and no longer feeding his need for narcissistic supply he would move on to fill his needs and SC and the kids would become liabilities. He would not want to have to pay any support or sell the house and split the proceeds etc., because by God he worked for it and it was his.

My mother thinks if I had stayed in that marriage and fought for fair division of property I would be dead. She likens my ex to Brad Cunningham (of Ann Rule's 'Dead by Sunset' fame). So I have a pretty fair idea of what SC was dealing with and how CC was thinking.
 
I guess he overestimated how his sons turned out...............

And IMO, anyone who would make a statement like that is probably "retarded" themselves. Wonder if any of his parishioners have a learning disabled child? I do - (he does very well by the way) - and I can tell you I'm much prouder of the man my LD child has become than RC should be of his sons.

Amen, girlfriend! Well, I made it through the first one, based on your request, and the one thing that jumped out at me LOUD AND CLEAR is that God will not be mocked. RC spent 28 minutes basically trying to convince his congregation that IF CC is guilty (and they would be guilty of sin if they dared think so) that God has already forgiven him. Well the truth is, as I understand it, that God knows the condition of our hearts.

[SIZE=-1]The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished: - 2 Peter 2:9

[/SIZE]
Don't get me wrong, I totally agree with RC in scripture - It is in God's nature to be forgiving. And the Word also says that God can forgive us spontaneously, even before we repent. (Jesus saying, "Father forgive them for they know not what they do"). The truth is that we are unable to receive that forgiveness and be reconciled with God until we have a change of heart (are truly repentent). According to the Bible, our failure to repent is a great barrier to all reconciliation.

If CC has had a change of heart and is repentant for what he did, understanding the full horror and undone with the grief of his actions, God can use him to restore something beautiful, even him.

But I sure don't get that this is what has happened. if so, CC would be undone - confessing his crimes, taking responsibility for his actions and accepting what the law decrees for his crimes. RC would be on his face in front of his congregation, weeping and wailing and asking for God's intervention and grace. He wouldn't be laying a guilt trip about sideline referees. JMO - for what it's worth.
 
If he had "clinical" mental issues, I would think they would have manifested long before the age of 33. (Of course he's mental - he more than likely killed his wife and kids) I would imagine that as a "registered, licensed" guard, he was given some kind of psych test at some point - military or otherwise.

I find it interesting that you brought this up - is that the defense you think his legal team is going to use?

I tend to think that anyone who kills his children, is 'out of his mind' But I am not saying he is legally insane though.

I think his defence is going for 'some other dude did it' defence.
What kind of man would do such a horrible thing to his own family, huh?

Poor wife and kids, Sheri should have run away form him a long time ago.
 
Lindadanette -
I'm glad to hear your perspective on this. I thought maybe I was being judgemental. I felt like RC was trying to spin the story - make himself and family the victims of the swift and unfair opinions of others - and maybe even trying to "guilt" the parishioners who did not attend services. I wondered if some are making the excuses that they had to cook, mow the yard, etc., to avoid telling him they weren't attending services because they felt CC was guilty and RC was facilitating him. He sure did hit hard on that section of his sermon.
I agree with all you said - I would think RC would be encouraging CC to confess and ask for LWO so he could "minister to" the other inmates to make himself "right" with God - to walk the walk of someone who truly has repented. By RC ignoring the evidence that CC is guilty and by continuing to facilitate the upcoming trial, he is not ministering to his own son and may even contribute to the possibility of CC receiving the DP. JMO
 
My ex-NPD-husband cheated with many women. He had a child with one, and when she wanted support that was when he finally confessed. Of course, he said it was a one night stand. He sat in a church with our pastor for marital counselling and swore that it was a one night stand. Years later the mother of the child confirmed to me that they had a long-term affair that continued even after our counselling. That poor woman went into the affair thinking he was single. Once he admitted he was married, with children, his story became, he was going to get a divorce. Then he finally admitted it was just a fling and she still went with it (those guys are masters at preying on women with low self-esteem).

Chances are CC's mistress believed his stories of woe and that his wife was frigid, controlling, etc. and she is not complicit, just a dupe. NPD's over-romanticize and are always looking for the perfect love. If SC was growing into an independent person and no longer feeding his need for narcissistic supply he would move on to fill his needs and SC and the kids would become liabilities. He would not want to have to pay any support or sell the house and split the proceeds etc., because by God he worked for it and it was his.

My mother thinks if I had stayed in that marriage and fought for fair division of property I would be dead. She likens my ex to Brad Cunningham (of Ann Rule's 'Dead by Sunset' fame). So I have a pretty fair idea of what SC was dealing with and how CC was thinking.

My dear one - I thank God that you are here to tell the tale!!!!!
Yes, I agree with all that you've said - but for the part about TL being seduced by his lies. I would believe this in a heartbeat if not for the fact that she and Sheri were buds from way back. That she helped to conceal the affair from Sheri - that she even got involved with her friends husband before seeing dried ink on a divorce decree, that she traveled to spiritual conferences and undoubtedly listened to messages about integrity and loyalty and STILL bought CC a cell phone so they could have phone sex without her friend finding out. . .

IDK - I remember that emoticon and the word "excited" and, if she wasn't rejoicing over the deaths, she was glad that he was about to walk out on his wife and children. I'm not sure that they're not both NPD - as a matter of opinion, I believe that will be revealed in the testimony - LE appears to have their dirty talk on record.
 
I'm not sure that they're not both NPD - as a matter of opinion, I believe that will be revealed in the testimony - LE appears to have their dirty talk on record.

BBM
snipped by me

I really don't know that I'm up to reading that particular transcript...
 
BBM
snipped by me

I really don't know that I'm up to reading that particular transcript...

Yeah - me too! I don't even think I will - it's too much like pron. But the DA will undoubtedly make a case for premeditation out of what was discussed between them - I am interested in finding out how "involved" TL was - I just have had a bad feeling about her from the git-go.
 
Chances are CC's mistress believed his stories of woe and that his wife was frigid, controlling, etc. and she is not complicit, just a dupe. NPD's over-romanticize and are always looking for the perfect love. If SC was growing into an independent person and no longer feeding his need for narcissistic supply he would move on to fill his needs and SC and the kids would become liabilities. He would not want to have to pay any support or sell the house and split the proceeds etc., because by God he worked for it and it was his.


I'm probably going to throw myself to the wolves with this but here goes. While I was in college (almost 20 years ago), I became involved with a married police officer. He told me that his marriage was essentially over, that they slept in separate rooms, the only reason he was in the marriage was for the 3 children, etc. etc. He called me at will, he went on vacations with me, he was good at the "game". I believed him hook, line and sinker.

About a year into the relationship, he let it slip that his wife had caught him cheating with another woman several years prior to our relationship. I was utterly sick to my stomach because I believed that I was his first infidelity. Needless to say, I ended the relationship shortly thereafter. I knew deep down in my heart that he was never going to change regardless of who he was with.

I am very ashamed that the relationship ever happened. His wife did catch him cheating, but the ironic thing was, she thought it was with me almost a year after we parted ways. I actually wrote a letter to his wife apologizing (not that I think it helped ease her pain any).

Now, with that being said, I did not know this woman nor her family. I was not a friend from high school nor did I have any contact with her until I wrote the letter apologizing. But I do understand how TL could have gotten roped into the relationship with CC and how easy it is to believe all the lies.

I am very thankful that I ended the relationship with the controlling police officer when I did. I hate to admit it but he had many characteristic that DP has.

I hope everyone here doesn&#8217;t think I&#8217;m a horrible person. I am now married to a wonderful man who I believe with all of my heart would never betray me or I him.
 
I'm probably going to throw myself to the wolves with this but here goes. While I was in college (almost 20 years ago), I became involved with a married police officer. He told me that his marriage was essentially over, that they slept in separate rooms, the only reason he was in the marriage was for the 3 children, etc. etc. He called me at will, he went on vacations with me, he was good at the "game". I believed him hook, line and sinker.

About a year into the relationship, he let it slip that his wife had caught him cheating with another woman several years prior to our relationship. I was utterly sick to my stomach because I believed that I was his first infidelity. Needless to say, I ended the relationship shortly thereafter. I knew deep down in my heart that he was never going to change regardless of who he was with.

I am very ashamed that the relationship ever happened. His wife did catch him cheating, but the ironic thing was, she thought it was with me almost a year after we parted ways. I actually wrote a letter to his wife apologizing (not that I think it helped ease her pain any).

Now, with that being said, I did not know this woman nor her family. I was not a friend from high school nor did I have any contact with her until I wrote the letter apologizing. But I do understand how TL could have gotten roped into the relationship with CC and how easy it is to believe all the lies.

I am very thankful that I ended the relationship with the controlling police officer when I did. I hate to admit it but he now had many characteristic that DP has.

I hope everyone here doesn’t think I’m a horrible person. I am now married to a wonderful man who I believe with all of my heart would never betray me or I him.

There's no way anyone would compare you to TL - and you are obviously sorry for what you did. When you realized what kind of person he was, you ended the relationship. You were in college at the time - I'm guessing you were somewhat immature and out on your own for the first time. TL has been on her own a long time and knows the "ins and outs" of men because that was basically her "job". You are NOT a horrible person - you are human - and we love you! :)
 
There's no way anyone would compare you to TL - and you are obviously sorry for what you did. When you realized what kind of person he was, you ended the relationship. You were in college at the time - I'm guessing you were somewhat immature and out on your own for the first time. TL has been on her own a long time and knows the "ins and outs" of men because that was basically her "job". You are NOT a horrible person - you are human - and we love you! :)

Thank you, you brought tears to my eyes and I love you guys too :)!
 
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