Sentencing and beyond- JA General Discussion #6

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franquerolane said:
This article explains so much about why he didn't boot her to the curb.
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There's a lot of info out there online. Google: breaking up with a borderline female. Most therapists recommend a strict no contact approach. But it's difficult, especially in codependent situations like the one Travis was in IMO. He had his own issues and combined with her sociopathic manipulations it was toxic.
Jmo but when Travis spoke of his addiction to Jodi and the relationship he was actually manifesting his codependency.


http://shrink4men.com/2014/08/27/going-mental-addicted-to-a-borderline/
 
Hope4More said:
I remember from way back your belief that's what happened-- that guilt still drove him-and my telling you it was my first belief too, from back even further, but that my opinion changed after reading and thinking through the texts record for April- June. Haven't changed my mind since then, and I see you haven't either. :)

The break I see, beginning on May 22 and complete by the 26th, is that Travis at long last saw through her, and meant what he said when he told her she was a liar to the core, that she was not who she said she was (a Mormon, trying to get right with Heavenly Father), that she had used sex for her own purposes having nothing to do with feeling love for him, and that she in fact had acted out of hatred.

I don't think he felt guilty for telling her what he knew to be the truth, however indelicate his word choice, and part of why I think that is he did not fall back into his reflexive guilt habit of apologizing to her.
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The way I see it is that his anger wasn't enough to change his character. His guilt came from a much deeper level. In fact, his angry outburst actually fed his guilt, and it became proportionate to his outburst. He acted out in a way that was completely contrary to the way he wanted to act, to present himself to the world, the example he wanted to set. He believed a positive outlook and attitude was the answer to all human difficulties, but Jodi dragged him down to a baser level, and he couldn't help but feel guilty for it, no matter how justified he felt at the same time.

She knew that his guilt would be proportionate to his anger, and she knew that offering him a way out of that put him at her mercy on June 4.
 
Val1 said:
Yet people still don't see that a female stalker can be just as dangerous as a male stalker. http://www.livestrong.com/article/105230-warning-signs-dangerous-obsessive-relationship/

Btw, whoever was asking about how long JA had been with PPL, her journal at BK's site, Vol.5 March 22, 2008, P. 57, she mentions it had been 2 years since joining PPL. Plenty of time to set up a few ducks....
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I hope that way of thinking in our society changes, and soon. There are some very dangerous women out there getting away with all sorts of things or, when they are required to answer for their actions are treated with leniency. I am amazed at how many people--some who I respect as having a good mind able to process more than the mundane--actually buy into the notion that if a female slaughters a male, he had to have done something to provoke it. The whole basis for the abuse and pedophile claims against Travis by her and her team was because they knew that in our society there is still a great deal of bias surrounding violent acts between male and female and that bias tends to favor the male as the villain.
 
Steve44 said:
The way I see it is that his anger wasn't enough to change his character. His guilt came from a much deeper level. In fact, his angry outburst actually fed his guilt, and it became proportionate to his outburst. He acted out in a way that was completely contrary to the way he wanted to act, to present himself to the world, the example he wanted to set. He believed a positive outlook and attitude was the answer to all human difficulties, but Jodi dragged him down to a baser level, and he couldn't help but feel guilty for it, no matter how justified he felt at the same time.

She knew that his guilt would be proportionate to his anger, and she knew that offering him a way out of that put him at her mercy on June 4.
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Because we don't have the facts and never will, IMO interpretations are necessarily subjective, and informed by our own experiences and POVs about human nature and the like. Just the way of things.

ETDelete. Too personal. ;)
 
krkrjx said:
I hope that way of thinking in our society changes, and soon. There are some very dangerous women out there getting away with all sorts of things or, when they are required to answer for their actions are treated with leniency. I am amazed at how many people--some who I respect as having a good mind able to process more than the mundane--actually buy into the notion that if a female slaughters a male, he had to have done something to provoke it. The whole basis for the abuse and pedophile claims against Travis by her and her team was because they knew that in our society there is still a great deal of bias surrounding violent acts between male and female and that bias tends to favor the male as the villain.
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Psychopaths are psychopaths and can be embodied in both genders. I guess there's no point to wondering in which gender it's more common. The social distinctions obviously aren't enough
ameliorate the reality wherever it arises. The female form may have an easier time hiding it due to the softer, more nurturing and socially refined image given to women in society, but then there's less necessity to hide it in that way among the male type.
 
Hope4More said:
Deleted personal info
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I deleted your personal info, but this was my response, still inviting your thoughts.

Well then I can only encourage you to stick to your convictions, and let it color whatever external situation in which you find it applicable. There's no better teacher than direct experience. So, I respect your interpretation re: Travis and Arias.

With respect, then, I would ask what's your opinion of how Arias bedded Travis on June 4. I know you went back and forth on the reality of that, but if I understand correctly you currently believe it did take place. I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts.
 
krkrjx said:
I hope that way of thinking in our society changes, and soon. There are some very dangerous women out there getting away with all sorts of things or, when they are required to answer for their actions are treated with leniency. I am amazed at how many people--some who I respect as having a good mind able to process more than the mundane--actually buy into the notion that if a female slaughters a male, he had to have done something to provoke it. The whole basis for the abuse and pedophile claims against Travis by her and her team was because they knew that in our society there is still a great deal of bias surrounding violent acts between male and female and that bias tends to favor the male as the villain.
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Everyone should be treated the same under the law. I don't consider being convicted of 1st degree murder and sentenced to LWOP leniency, so in my view, JA was not treated with leniency. A death sentence is never guaranteed. Of the last 7 cases in my area that were DP cases (all men, btw), none got sentenced to death.
 
Steve44 said:
I deleted your personal info, but this was my response, still inviting your thoughts.

Well then I can only encourage you to stick to your convictions, and let it color whatever external situation in which you find it applicable. There's no better teacher than direct experience. So, I respect your interpretation re: Travis and Arias.

With respect, then, I would ask what's your opinion of how Arias bedded Travis on June 4. I know you went back and forth on the reality of that, but if I understand correctly you currently believe it did take place. I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts.
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I just heard a really loud *sigh* from H4M.
 
Madeleine74 said:
Everyone should be treated the same under the law. I don't consider being convicted of 1st degree murder and sentenced to LWOP leniency, so in my view, JA was not treated with leniency. A death sentence is never guaranteed. Of the last 7 cases in my area that were DP cases (all men, btw), none got sentenced to death.
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I don't think she was referring to Arias specifically, just that there are more mechanisms in society to find for leniency in female killers than male killers.
 
Steve44 said:
I don't think she was referring to Arias specifically, just that there are more mechanisms in society to find for leniency in female killers than male killers.
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What mechanisms are those?

Thinking about the recent female-killer cases I've followed: All were convicted and I think none got less than 30 or 40 years in state prison. The only one I followed who was acquitted was Casey Anthony.
 
Is anyone else having problems :pcguru: uploading these 1400 posts, 15 pages??

Hope it's okay if I ask for another thread to be opened??

:seeya:
 
Madeleine74 said:
What mechanisms are those?

Thinking about the recent female-killer cases I've followed: All were convicted and I think none got less than 30 or 40 years in state prison. The only one I followed who was acquitted was Casey Anthony.
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It is changing, and I don't have a specific example, but generally the victim card is a strategy available to all women, regardless of the reality. Arias is perfect example of this, and although it didn't work in her case, due to the overwhelming evidence, had that evidence not been so clear, she may well have gotten less than she actually deserved. Even as it is, many bought the abuse story, it just wasn't enough in her case in light of the evidence.
 
:wave: new thread coming up. I'll be back soon with the link.
 
Steve44 said:
It is changing, and I don't have a specific example, but generally the victim card is a strategy available to all women, regardless of the reality. Arias is perfect example of this, and although it didn't work in her case, due to the overwhelming evidence, had that evidence not been so clear, she may well have gotten less than she actually deserved. Even as it is, many bought the abuse story, it just wasn't enough in her case in light of the evidence.
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The abuse card or unhappy troubled childhood card is tried in many cases I follow (men as well) or else the 'mentally frail/unbalanced' card. I don't think I've seen it work in any cases I followed, maybe to save someone from the DP, but certainly not from guilt.
 
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