Wheaton Plaza in 1975

Thanks for the link. There is some discussion of them on the group as well.

I was down at the mall Saturday. Well across the street at a music store. Boy has it changed in the last five years. They built a huge parking lot.

Heard Farrell's chain is coming back alive.

I grew up in that area, and spent a lot of time at Wheaton Plaza as a kid, before they enclosed it. The Lyon sisters' disappearance has haunted me since it happened.

LillyRush said:

I found the comment that you're talking about. It sounds like this person heard about the story when they were a kid in 80s, maybe from a friend or something. I guess if that's the only source they had, they may have questioned whether it happened. Also, sometimes people sensationalize things when they retell it to the point of it sounding unreal. It's kind of silly really because clearly this person could have just looked it up online or something. But some people are just not interested in the news, or would prefer to think of something like that as a crazy rumor to make themselves feel safer.

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I lived in Virginia when they went missing and I remember it well because child abductions weren't a usual occurence in the news, as they are now. But I remember this being on the news very clearly. There wasn't the media coverage back then that there is today. Sometimes I am curious if there are stats somewhere that would tell how much this type of crime is compared to the 60's, 70', 80', 90's. I know the media puts them in our face now, back then mostly I remember news coverage was about Vietnam, etc. Some brainiac somewhere must be studying the increase in child abductions now vs decades ago without factoring the media into the equation. I grew up, luckily, in an era where we had no fear of walking in the woods or playing outside, and I was lucky to rise kids just before all this abduction etc started to become everyday news. Now I worry like he77 about my grandkids. I have looked up their houses and there are plenty of RSO"s around. My daughters don't let them just roam the neighborhood, thank God.

They found the remains of some abducted people (adults/ children can;t remember) down in the Triangle, Va area awhile back and for a short period of time they were wondering if maybe it was the Lyon sisters, but it turned out to be two other unsolved missing people cases.

abbie

AbbieNormal said:

I lived in Virginia when they went missing and I remember it well because child abductions weren't a usual occurence in the news, as they are now. But I remember this being on the news very clearly. There wasn't the media coverage back then that there is today. Sometimes I am curious if there are stats somewhere that would tell how much this type of crime is compared to the 60's, 70', 80', 90's....
abbie

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Welcome to The Lyon Sisters featured case, Abbie.

You make a very good point concerning media coverage of this type of crime in 1975. Actually, the Lyon sisters case was quite well covered for weeks in the Washington Metropolitan area papers as well as on TV and radio. It was probably better covered than the end of the Vietnam war which was taking place at the same time.

That coverage, however, was not the norm for 1975. All you have to do is look for coverage on some of the other child disappearances of the same time frame to see how little news coverage and media attention was given them.

It is hard to say whether or not today there are more child abductions or if it is just covered more closely by the media and by Amber Alerts and such. Certainly public awareness of the problem is much higher today than it was in 1975.

Richard said:

Welcome to The Lyon Sisters featured case, Abbie.

You make a very good point concerning media coverage of this type of crime in 1975. Actually, the Lyon sisters case was quite well covered for weeks in the Washington Metropolitan area papers as well as on TV and radio. It was probably better covered than the end of the Vietnam war which was taking place at the same time.

That coverage, however, was not the norm for 1975. All you have to do is look for coverage on some of the other child disappearances of the same time frame to see how little news coverage and media attention was given them.

It is hard to say whether or not today there are more child abductions or if it is just covered more closely by the media and by Amber Alerts and such. Certainly public awareness of the problem is much higher today than it was in 1975.

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BBM.

First, thanks for the welcome, I don't think I have ever received a "welcome" to a thread. Hoe refreshing!
This is a case I will never forget, it was my Sr year of HS and it was all over the news and we got the Washington Post daily in my home. And, as I said, child abductions were not reported like they are today. Not that they didn't happen, I am sure.
In a way, I have been waiting since 1975 to hear what happened to those girls. I doubt we will ever know. Sad, sad, sad.

abbie

Popular Music the week of 20 March 1975:

Lovin' You - Minnie Riperton
Lady Marmalade - LaBelle
Have You Ever Been Mellow - Olivia Newton John
Philadelphia Freedom - The Elton John Band
You Are So Beautiful - Joe Cocker
Shame, Shame, Shame - Shirley & Company
One You Get Started - Rufus feathruing Chaka Khan
No No Song - Ringo Starr
Poetry Man - Phoebe Snow
My Eyes Adored You - Frankie Valli
Shining Star - Earth, Wind & Fire

found a neat picture of it before it was enclosed. i really wanted to see what it looked like as descriptions give me no idea where to even start imagining...

MistyM said:

found a neat picture of it before it was enclosed. i really wanted to see what it looked like as descriptions give me no idea where to even start imagining...

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Thanks for a great photo. The picture was taken at what is referred to in some of these posts as the mall center or fountain area. Behind the photographer was one of the large end stores, Woodward and Lothrop (aka "Woodies").

The scene is of the fountain area where the Easter Bunny display was set up and where Sheila and Kate were last seen by their brother Jay and by another boy.

In the background is the Montgomery Ward Company (aka Wards), which was the other large "end store". Woodies was in the East end of Wheaton Plaza, and Wards was in the West end.

The Mall was sort of "T" shaped. You are looking West at the main avenue between the End stores, but there was also an avenue of stores which extended South, toward the left of the photo.

Between the fountain and Wards was the Orange Bowl pizza takeout restaurant and the brick planter where Sheila and Kate were seen talking to the "Tape Recorder Man" (aka TRM) by the eyewitness known as "Jimmy" and his friend.

"Jimmy" stated that immediately afterward, he saw the TRM walking away toward Wards and the girls walking in the opposite direction toward the Fountain.

There were parking lots in almost any direction from which you could exit the mall. At that time, there were quite a number of different entrances and exits to Wheaton Plaza, some led directly from the parking lots to the open area shown in the photo, while others led directly into stores - particularly into the end stores of Wards and Woodies.

It is most likely that Sheila and Kate entered Wheaton Plaza through Wards, OR through the Mall entrance just to the left of Wards in the photo, as their home was to the West of Wheaton Plaza, and the path they usually took led directly to Wards' back door.

Someone asked me where the Orange Bowl Pizza restaurant was located in the photo that MistyM provided a couple of posts back.

Looking at the photo, you see Wards store at the West end of Wheaton Plaza. There is a sign which reads "WARDS" high on the corner of that building which can be seen from University Blvd and Viers Mill Roads outside.

If you look at the W of "WARDS" visible in that high sign and then look straight down from it in the photo, on the right hand side of the open walking area, that is where the Orange Bowl was. It was a small take out place with a few stools to sit at. It was located about halfway between Wards and the fountain. They sold Pizza by the slice and many took it to go or sat on planter benches to eat it. Cost had just gone up to 45 cents a slice.

Across from the Orange Bowl is a white brick planter with bushes in it. You can see a row of them between the fountain and Wards. Sheila and Kate were seen talking to a man (TRM) sitting on the one nearest the Orange Bowl. He had a tan briefcase on the ground next to his feet and had a small tape recorder sitting on the planter next to him. In his hand was a microphone and he was overheard asking the girls a few questions and they were replying into his microphone.

The walkway is roughly parallel to University Ave. which borders the parking lot to the far right in the photo, on the other side of the stores.

If you walk to Wards (now a Target Store) and turn to the left, you can exit to a large parking lot. If you walk to Wards and turn right, you will be near the entrance of the movie theater. There is also an entrance/exit to a parking lot past the theater.

You could walk all the way through Wards and in 1975 there was a back door which led to a very small parking lot, and just past it, straight ahead, was a small pathway which led to Faulkner, where the girls usually walked to and from the mall. There is now only a loading dock at the back of the store, no outside entrance/exit.

I should also mention that the Main Entrance to Wheaton Plaza was just to the right of the photographer in the photo. the first thing you would see coming into the mall from that entrance was the fountain area. It is not likely that the girls used that entrance, because it would have required them to take a long walk around the theater side of the mall (upper right in photo). Going through Wards, or along the south side of Wards and coming in at the upper left of the photo would have been most likely for them.

Below is a link to the current Westwood Mall which was Wheaton Plaza back in 1975. A lot has changed since the girls were there in March of that year.

In 1975, the mall consisted of two rows of stores facing eachother, on opposite sides of open air corridors. Today the entire mall is enclosed and there are upper and lower levels. Most of the buildings from 1975 have been incorporated into the present day mall, and you can see a floor plan (as it looks today) at the link.

Note that today's Target was where Montgomery Wards was located in 1975. Today's Penny's was Woodward and Lothrop (Woodies) in 1975.

The "Mall center" is midway between present day Target and Penny's, near a main entrance. It is indicated in the floor plan by a question mark (?) at the link, and that is exactly where a fountain was located in 1975. This is where the Easter Bunny display was in 1975.

Sheila and Kate probably entered the mall through Wards' (now Target) western-most outside entrance (bottom of the drawing) OR through a general mall entrance at the upper right hand corner of Wards (now Target) in the floor plan drawing.

The Orange Bowl and Peoples Drug store were on the left hand side of the floor plan between Mall Center and Wards, near what is now the entrance to Macy's.

There is an excellent description of what Wheaton Plaza was like in the thread titled "Case Summary".

LINK:

http://www.westfield.com/wheaton/directory/search/store?category=2040

This time of year (Christmas Shopping season) is a super busy time for all shopping malls. I wonder if the abductor of the Lyon sisters frequented malls as a matter of habit, and if he was particularly active in December of 1974 - only three months before the girls went missing.

There has been a lot of discussion about the possible suspect/person of interest referred to in these threads as "The Tape Recorder Man" or "TRM". He was reportedly seen talking to Sheila and Kate shortly before they disappeared. Other witnesses reported seeing him - or someone who resembled the sketch of TRM - with a tape recorder at other shopping centers and malls in the Metropolitan DC area just prior to his reported appearance at Wheaton Plaza on 25 March 1975.

Could he have been doing similar activities at area malls during the Christmas Shopping season? I wonder if there was any information available which would indicate such activity, such as complaints of parents to Mall security personnel back then.

Richard said:

This time of year (Christmas Shopping season) is a super busy time for all shopping malls. I wonder if the abductor of the Lyon sisters frequented malls as a matter of habit, and if he was particularly active in December of 1974 - only three months before the girls went missing.

There has been a lot of discussion about the possible suspect/person of interest referred to in these threads as "The Tape Recorder Man" or "TRM". He was reportedly seen talking to Sheila and Kate shortly before they disappeared. Other witnesses reported seeing him - or someone who resembled the sketch of TRM - with a tape recorder at other shopping centers and malls in the Metropolitan DC area just prior to his reported appearance at Wheaton Plaza on 25 March 1975.

Could he have been doing similar activities at area malls during the Christmas Shopping season? I wonder if there was any information available which would indicate such activity, such as complaints of parents to Mall security personnel back then.

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Richard, Great observation. Would probably have been mentioned back at the time, though ? JMO

About the mall that day.........it was a Tuesday. What was going on at the mall the day before? They were taken on such a busy day. I'm just wondering if Monday was also busy? It's been reported that Tuesday was the first day of spring vacation for the kids...but then I saw it reported that it was the second day. Did the abductor have an entire week of busy days to choose from or was Tuesday it?

Motherof5 said:

About the mall that day.........it was a Tuesday. What was going on at the mall the day before? They were taken on such a busy day. I'm just wondering if Monday was also busy? It's been reported that Tuesday was the first day of spring vacation for the kids...but then I saw it reported that it was the second day. Did the abductor have an entire week of busy days to choose from or was Tuesday it?

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Good question, but no simple answer. True it was a Tuesday and it was the second day of spring break for most schools - particularly the public schools of Montgomery County.

My personal feeling is that the perpetrator did not limit himself to the school or shopping mall schedules. He was probably "hunting" for potential victims 365 days of the year. But there were probably a number of factors which went into him doing what he did when he did it.

Monday, the 24th of March 1975 was a very cold and rainy day. That factor probably kept a lot of the kids from going to the mall that day, and may have contributed to the very busy day of Tuesday the 25th, which was fairly warm and sunny. That same combination of factors may have led to the perpetrator being at the mall that day.

Wheaton Plaza in 1975 was an "outdoor" mall. It was somewhat enclosed, in that there were continuous rows of shops facing eachother. But, the passageway or courtyard between the stores was open to the weather. If it was raining, you would get wet, if it was cold, you were cold - unless you stepped inside one of the stores.

Today Wheaton Plaza is completely enclosed, like many modern shopping malls. Also, it has a different name, but many folks in the area still refer to it as Wheaton Plaza.

Bumping this thread up due to some recent discussion about Wheaton Plaza in 1975 when the Lyon sisters, Sheila and Kate went missing. Posts 29 and 30 contain a photo and description of the Mall as it appeared around that era.

1978

Maya Love said:

1978
View attachment 41107

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Great pic!! Thank you!!

A member of the Wheaton Plaza facebook page posted a picture of the water fountain at Wheaton Plaza: