MO - Lisa Irwin, 10 months, Kansas City, 4 Oct 2011 - #14

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MaciBean said:
Breaking: A well has been discovered under a deck in a backyard next to the Irwin home. It is being disassembled
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 10/11/2011 3:26:28 PM 10:26 AM


Read more: http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old#ixzz1aUI4TUeT
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Waahhhhaaatttt! Wow. Gave myself a little self imposed time out and this is what I come back to.
Earlier I wrote that I had a bad feeling about today....now I have a REALLY bad feeling about what will be discovered. Ugghh.
 
Shelby1 said:
Thank you so much, and thank you all so much. I'm glad the timeline can help out in some small way.

I drink box wine every night :) I'm a cheap date lol.
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I thought this said you drink a box of wine each night, like an entire box. I was like, "Wowwwwwwwww, she must have a crazy hangover each morning." LOL!!
 
Okay, I woke up this morning so excited that I was only 12 pages behind - to then discover that we have our own forum now and I am really countless pages behind. Not to mention I then fell back asleep and am 15 pages behind on this thread alone. :banghead:

All of this new info is really making my head spin. I've tried so hard to give the parents the benefit of the doubt, even as doubt really crept in the past couple of days but now I'm afraid I'm going to have to eat crow (no boxed wine please, it triggers my migraines) and that really saddens me. I am so sick of children dying at the hands of those they love and trust. It isn't fair and it should not keep happening over and over. My only hope at this point is that Baby Lisa's death was a tragic accident and mom freaked out and tried to cover it up out of a desire to protect her other child not herself.

Just typing this has the tears running down my face. I still can't see either of the parents harming this child. She looks so loved and well cared for but so did lil Caylee I suppose. Nothing fits in this case but things aren't looking good.

All :twocents:

ETA: It isn't the actual eatting of the crow that saddens me. It is the reasons for it. I was so sure that Baby Lisa had been taken from her home alive, hopefully by a woman that only wanted to love her, and would soon be found and returned to that loving home.
 
HatesSociopaths said:
Here is my theory, subject to modification as facts unroll:

1. It was an accidental death.
a. Most likely way I come up with is Lisa was coughing Sunday night after the birthday party, and the mother gave her adult cough syrup. The baby was accidentally overdosed. In the morning she was found unquestionably dead.
2. The motive for staging a kidnap appears to be to avoid losing custody of the boys, namely Jeremy's son.
a. This is the best motive I can come up with for doing something crazy like staging an abduction/kidnapping like this.
b. I have tried in earnest to see what custody issues may exist with the boys, and have not been able to fully substantiate what may be going on there, but it appears that there may indeed be a lingering battle for custody of his son. Call it speculation for now as I have no link to provide for this.
3. The staging of the kidnapping involved not just the couple, but a third person.
a. Jeremy worked the night shift IMO so he would have an alibi.
b. Debbie needed someone to help get rid of the baby's clothes with vomit on them that would reveal she was poisoned. She also needed someone to dispose of the baby.
c. I believe she called in a favor from her brother, SN. I would like to elaborate on why I chose him of her relatives, but until he is (if he is) named a POI, it would not conform with forum rules.
d. The man at the store will be found to have been her brother. He lives 5 miles away and the store is on the google map path between the houses.
e. The brother burned the baby's clothes, etc. in that dumpster at 2:30 in the morning.
f. He then went back to the house and took the dead baby as plotted with DB.
g. Where he went with the body is anyone's guess, but my theory that he buried it in his backyard is based on where I think DB would want her daughter buried. Whether or not the brother was ok with this is not easy to determine, but I think he has made (errr - too much info.)
4. In this theory, DB, JI and the brother are all in on it.

MOO! Just my :twocents:

:seeya:
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Unless the overdose was intentional ,I don't think so. How would any parent determine their child was beyond help ? And then stage a kidnapping and include family in a coverup over an accident?
I don't see it ,but I'm biased since my husband never gave up on my son.I don't think a parent would assume their child was beyond help.
If the baby was coughing maybe she died from illness? How would mom know it was from an accidental overdose? How would she even know she gave an overdose if it was an accident?
JMO
 
Ms. James if, and it is a big if, a parent was intoxicated, I think it changes the parameters of possibly trying to cover up an accidental death. The stigma, the charges, the probable loss of other children and/or prison time...not to mention a parent not thinking clearly. JMO
 
Since several here have theorized Mom accidently "overdosed" Lisa with cough medicine, I just wanted to remind people of something (which those without small children may not be aware of): neither cold nor cough medicine of any amount is supposed to be given to a child under 4 any longer. There is no safe dose anymore, per recent (going back a few years) FDA regulations.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=95501981
 
LaLaw2000 said:
That computer hard drive would really give LE great insight into this couple, along with any information that has been deleted. I would love to know what their internet footprints would reveal.

But alas, I suppose it is considered none of my 'bidness' at this point!

Wish the Sunshine Law was in effect in the state of Missouri, mysticrose!
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I found this article about the Sunshine Law in Missouri. Not sure if it helps but was trying to read about it and found this on the attorney generals website.
 
cluciano63 said:
Ms. James if, and it is a big if, a parent was intoxicated, I think it changes the parameters of possibly trying to cover up an accidental death. The stigma, the charges, the probable loss of other children and/or prison time...not to mention a parent not thinking clearly. JMO
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I think this is an important point. A parent might do anything to save a child unless they believe it will cause them to lose their other children. At that point, they might say "this one is already gone, but if I hide what happened, I will not lose the other one."
 
davehead21 said:
I don't think this is the same person. I would really like to read the article that states she's an attorney.
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I'm in agreement with you on this. I'm almost certain that AI is a law student at UMKC. She is not an atty. She is from KC and lives here.

I won't say how I know, but it's not difficult to find out.

Hope that this is okay to say. Just don't want the misinformation to continue to spread that she is an atty and/or that she is representing the family in a legal way.
 
aks9847 said:
I'm in agreement with you on this. I'm almost certain that AI is a law student at UMKC. She is not an atty. She is from KC and lives here.

I won't say how I know, but it's not difficult to find out.

Hope that this is okay to say. Just don't want the misinformation to continue to spread that she is an atty and/or that she is representing the family in a legal way.
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Yep!! I am glad someone else is in agreement. When I found out that she is a law student, her attitude kind of started to make sense to me-- she's a kid studying law, so she thinks she knows it all and how to handle this very serious situation. :twocents:
 
The dumpster fire is nearly directly in the middle of the Irwin house and where they are searching the well. This isn't looking good at all.
 
Yikes, on the thread about the well, there is a link saying mom was taken downtown by LE...
 
Unicorns77 said:
I have a son that is just a few days older than Lisa and at his last appt (approx 3 weeks ago) he was 22 lbs and 29 inches. So hearing the stats on Lisa I really don't feel they are too far off.
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I agree. Originally they said approx. 26-30 lbs. Going with the low # + she just turned 11 months. I don't see 26 lbs. for a 30" almost year old baby to be radically off the mark. jmo
 
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