FL - Abraham Shakespeare, 42, lottery winner, Polk County, 7 April 2009 #7

Thanks, blue mermaid. I was trying to get into the corporate records this morning but the site was down. And thanks for the PEO definition. I wonder if she ever used the PEO as a staffing organization at all since she had the LLC doing the same thing, it would appear. I think you are right about she meant it to be confusing.

...i would love to know who taught ddm, some of this...she is really not smart enough to do this alone...she had to have some guidance....but who?...i know who i would think it was...anyone else got a guess...

Finally_ said:

I have not yet learned how to do the little *snip* out of a quote, so my apologies to always posting a whole quote in my responses to posts.
Yes, it was me that stated from what I understand, DDM and Shar moved to Rehawk in April! Yes, (quadruple-hinky) IMO.
And as I previously also stated from what I understand, AS lived at Redhawk until...well...that "date" has yet to be determined/released. From what I understand, whether true, not sure, but AS stayed in the mother-in-law apartment over the garage.
In reference to a post as to three others that benefitted from AS money, and someone else posting that PP also benefitted from AS money. From what I understand and IMO, yes, very much so. So we can add, that that may have been another person to the list of benefitting from AS money.

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I'd be real interested to know why Abraham lived in the m-i-l apt instead of the house, if true.

I appreciate your sharing and I agree on the quadruple hinky.

Susan1 said:

Thanks, blue mermaid. I was trying to get into the corporate records this morning but the site was down. And thanks for the PEO definition. I wonder if she ever used the PEO as a staffing organization at all since she had the LLC doing the same thing, it would appear. I think you are right about she meant it to be confusing.

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It looks like the AMP PEO was used after creation because AMP LLC was reinstated in late 2009. There was no annual report for AMP LLC in 2008, but there was for AMP PEO. But this is just an assumption based on the reports filed, and may have nothing to do with reality.

The question is- were there checking accounts associated with all of these businesses, and who had control of them?

blue mermaid said:

It looks like the AMP PEO was used after creation because AMP LLC was reinstated in late 2009. There was no annual report for AMP LLC in 2008, but there was for AMP PEO. But this is just an assumption based on the reports filed, and may have nothing to do with reality.

The question is- were there checking accounts associated with all of these businesses, and who had control of them?

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We can check the real estate records to see how the criminal affidavit deviates from the actual record. Unfortunately, unless the bank records are released during discovery, or unless the police realize there is more than one AMP and recheck their facts to see which accounts were used and clearly state in an amended affidavit which companies they are referring to, when it comes to the financial transactions, we only have what the criminal affidavit is telling us, and I believe after looking at the actual deeds, it is not 100% factual. I believe they missed the distinction between the companies at least when they were talking about real estate and probably other areas as well.
One thing I think we can all agree on, when Dorice turned that company over to DebM, she most likely cleared out all the bank accounts and took most of the assets. I can't see her being charitable and leaving anything behind. I totally believe DebM when she said through whoever that she started out with her own money, that was all she had to start. That does sound like the selfish, greedy Dorice we've come to know and despise. I don't think that DebM was in collusion with Dorice. I hope she was not. Unlike Dorice, she has some very good friends who stand by her. That's admirable.

Thanks susan1 for reminding me of that. I have a bad habit of going on tangents.

Grangran4, I apologise for letting that land on you. At least you are loyal even if I felt it was expressed in disfunctional way.

Finally, you seem like a good person and I know you are probably mad at me, but I appreciate what you have brought here and I'm proud of you for hanging in there with us

Finally_ said:

Not that it matters, but in defense of grangran4, I in fact know, that she was only quoting from DebM. IMO, grangran4 is a good hearted person. Probably better hearted than myself. I too, was told to quote things, only I suggested that DebM rephrase the things she was saying, because I had refused to post some things. grangran4, on the other hand, gotta give her credit, she wrote it, as it was quoted, no matter how harsh it was...and no matter what others thought...now that's a whole lot of heart to do that for a friend...but that is JMO!

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Finally, it does matter. I have nothing but respect for anybody that comes to the defense of a friend as you, yourself and GranGran4 have done. DebbieM's whole world has been turned upside down and she's lucky to have friends like yourself and GranGran4 for moral support.

That said, there's more to the story. It's one thing to empathize with a friend's situation, hold their hand, offer hugs, but quite another to help that person see beyond the madness and offer advice on decisions they may be making that could very well put them in a worse position down the road.

In my opinion, you, yourself came here with an open mind, not only to support your friend, but to do some of your own sleuthng and see if you can find some answers while offering tidbits of your own that helped the posters here connect some dots. On the other hand, in my opinion, GranGran4 came with both guns loaded, though understandably in defense of her/his friend.

GranGran4 wrote, "I personally have nothing to add to this discussion about the DDM/AS case, since I only know about it as been written in the news. Everyone has already read that, so no sense in rehashing old news.'

If the posting sleuthers here on this forum had only read what was in the news, they would have never put two and two together back in December 2009 when they discovered the 5732 and 5802 State road properties were connected to Dee Dee Moore and then to Stitzel, and Shar. They even posted drive by photos of the properties, dug into corporate records as well as records file with the clerk of courts. They connected those dots and continued to dig. And all of that was a good 5-6 weeks BEFORE LE served the search warrant at the same two properties and ultimaely found Abraham's body.

My point here is that DebbieM is obviously in a state of shock, upset, caught between a rock and a hard place, obviously questioning loyalites, trust and as she was quoted in the news that she moved into a nightmare. Yes, she needs friends and moral support but she also needs friends with clear heads to help look into some things for her so she's still standing when her nightmare is over. Yes, the posters here read the news also but they go above and beyond that because our quest was to find Abraham. This isn't a witch hunt, it's a quest for justice.

DebbieM needs friends who are rocks not pillows, so she doesn't fall over when she leans on them.

ACR

Good afternoon all, there is alot of things on here, and I will try to address a few things, without taking up a whole page or two if you will give me a few minutes to get my thoughts together and respond. As we all know, in most circumstances Financial Records are not PUBLIC, so I have to figure out how to post my wording in a form in which will make sense.

First of all, let me bring THIS to attention. I know most of you have already researched this, but, I am only bringing this out to show just how IMO sneaky DDM really is!

When DDM signed over the company to DebM, notice the address in which DDM put on record! W Rights Creek Rd. To those of us that know/researched this. That address was put on record incorrectly by DDM. It is Wrights Creek Rd. The way in which DDM had it recorded, IMO, was to look as though it was W(meaning West) Rights Creek RD. Just a tidbit, we all can see in DDM's sneakiness, IMO.

IMO, at the time of signing the company over, I think, actually, many think, DDM did it in a "just incase" mannerism. In other words, now in knowing what we all know and have learned in the last couple months, DDM signed over that company because it was the only actual company in which was somewhat ran correctly, in which I will explain that in a moment. IMO, DDM thought she could protect the LLC, by signing it over to DebM...due to DDM being, at the time, in the public eye of AS missing. IMO, DDM thought she would get away with the murder and even if all her other things were investigated and found to have been done incorrectly, at least she would have the AMP,LLC to fall back on for whatever reasons, snatch it back, fall back on DebM (as the owner) for money or whatever. But, she did get caught, as we know, and IMO whatver plan DDM had in reference to AMP,LLC has all gone down the drain. Or who knows, maybe DDM THOUGHT she could convince DebM she was innocent(not happening), and play off of DebM for money for canteen/etc. until all the facts came out. JMO!

Finally_ said:

IMO, at the time of signing the company over, I think, actually, many think, DDM did it in a "just incase" mannerism. In other words, now in knowing what we all know and have learned in the last couple months, DDM signed over that company because it was the only actual company in which was somewhat ran correctly, in which I will explain that in a moment. IMO, DDM thought she could protect the LLC, by signing it over to DebM...due to DDM being, at the time, in the public eye of AS missing. IMO, DDM thought she would get away with the murder and even if all her other things were investigated and found to have been done incorrectly, at least she would have the AMP,LLC to fall back on for whatever reasons, snatch it back, fall back on DebM (as the owner) for money or whatever. But, she did get caught, as we know, and IMO whatver plan DDM had in reference to AMP,LLC has all gone down the drain. Or who knows, maybe DDM THOUGHT she could convince DebM she was innocent(not happening), and play off of DebM for money for canteen/etc. until all the facts came out. JMO!

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This makes a lot of sense and I think DDM thought she was going to get away with it too.

I am unaware of how the other businesses were ran of DDM, but I do know how the AMP, LLC was/is ran somewhat. I am going by everything recently learned from the payroll company. This is how it works. ANY and ALL money in reference to the AMP,LLC goes through a payroll company. Even as the owner of the company, you can NOT deposit money into the payroll company. The payroll company handles ALL billing, ALL accounts payable, and ALL payroll to employees, INCLUDING the paying of the OWNER. The payroll takes so much % of accounts receivable and puts that money into a reserve that the payroll company totally controls. The reserve is built up and used as a backup for payroll, due to employees get paid daily/weekly/etc. and billing is done on monthly basis's usually and at the end of the prior month. (hope that makes sense). After the payroll receives those accounts payable and takes the % out for the reserve, (hence that is why DebM has had to wait the 5 weeks to be paid), the reserve for her company had to begin, BEFORE DebM could be paid. Then the payroll takes out the money's in which have already been paid to the employees, then they take out their % for their services, then whatever profit is left is THEN deposited into a Business Account to the owner. Now as far as the AS money, from what I understand, which I hope all of you too will understand, AS money was put into DDM's Business Account, at her bank, by her. In which that account has not and can not be touched by anyone but DDM, if she even has anything left in it. NO funneling of AS money, from what we understand by the payroll company, is even possible to do through the payroll company. The payroll company handles ALL the company money, except what profits are left, then as already stated, THEN the OWNER's BUSINESS ACCOUNT of THE Owner's bank of choice, gets profits left after everything else. DebM can not even touch the prior reserve that was in the payroll company, due to that was DDM's reserve when she had ownership of the company. DebM, had to open her OWN BUSINESS ACCOUNT(in which I witnessed) at the bank of DebM's choice. Therefore, the ONLY money that DebM will be seeing is profits left over from the accounts payable that get received. Now does this make sense to anyone now?
Also, as I stated IMO, of DDM wanting to possibly "just incase" "snatch back", this is why I said that AMP, LLC was somewhat ran correctly. Because the payroll company oversees and controls everything basically.

I will be back later, I have a church function in which I must attend this afternoon. So I will be glad to answer/clarify anything else I am able to, when I get back.

cholzsch said:

GranGran4, if you believe that DDM, and DDM alone was responsible for this crime of murder, AND the theft of all of AS's assets, then I believe you give her to much credit. While she may have been the mastermind, she needed the help of a few more people to carry this whole plan out. Simple things such as falsifying signatures, notaries signing that they witnessed a signature when they didn't, witnesses signing without actually witnessing, helping fake an alibi, etc., etc., etc. All these things can envelope more people than just discussed here, and will surely be uncovered in the ongoing investigation.

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aboved snipped by me from longer post
I completely agree with you Cholzsch! And no disrespect to GranGran4!! But these are my exact thoughts.

Finally_ said:

I will be back later, I have a church function in which I must attend this afternoon. So I will be glad to answer/clarify anything else I am able to, when I get back.

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Thank you Finally for your detailed explanation. ;-)

- Dee Dee turned AMP LLC ownership over to DebbieM on 12/14/2009 but DebbieM didn't form her DBA Stat Nursing Personnel until 02/03/2010. Why did she wait two months since it was her company? If Dee Dee had not been arrested, would DebbieM have left everything as it was?

- Does that mean up until DebbieM got her own business account and created the DBA for that company, that Dee Dee was still in control of receiving the profits from AMP LLC in December, January? If so, that would sort of prove Dee Dee's possible "just in case" plan to try and take the company back from DebbieM.

- Personally, in my opinion, I wonder if that's the same reason Dee Dee did the "Quit Claim Deed" (01/13/2010) on the 1418 W Lake Parker Dr house to Eva Williams, as a possible backup plan for Williams to borrow money on the property to cover Dee Dee's bond or even sell that house so Dee Dee would have money for an attorney, or even a place to go home to.

- Did DebbieM know anything about the "American Service Professionals LLC" company that Dee Dee also had listed at 5732 State? What was it used for and who ran it?

ACR

cholzsch said:

Yep...that was brought up previously. Here is a Link to the listing. Kinda curious that it was listed with a Redington Beach Realtor, instead of a local one.

This picture is dated 1/19/2009:

This listing was done just a week after the property was quit-claimed to AMP PEO. One has to wonder:

1. Why use an out-of-the-area Realtor?
2. If in fact AS did sell/give this property to AMP PEO, where did he live after the transfer?
3. If he DID NOT transfer this property, could inquires to this listing have set off a trigger to AS that something was amiss?

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Could it have been a further attempt to collect even MORE money for "free"??? That's the only thing I can think of!!! Don't know why she might use an out of area realtor though.....all realtors can access all properties on MLS, so local realtors would see the house in the current listings.

cholzsch said:

2. If in fact AS did sell/give this property to AMP PEO, where did he live after the transfer??

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It was stated somewhere on here that he was living in the garage apartment. Not sure if that is true, and I can't remember our source, so don't take my word for it.......

ACandyRose said:

Wow, thanks for finding that listing for November 2008 as I thought it was 2009 also.

Interesting that was right around the time that Dee Dee claims she met Abraham. And it was Barbara Jackson (realitor) who claims to have introduced them. Wonder why the house wasn't listed with her since she sold it to Abraham to start with.

Amazing, within two months, Dee Dee apparently learns all his financial information, by January she gets all his properties by Quit Claim or mortgage transfers.

By February 2009, from the date (02/05/2009) that fax was sent from Staples to surrender the million dollars from his Prudential Annuities Account, within less than two weeks (02/17/2009), she successfully got him locked out of his own accounts and all of his remaining money.

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Remember too, though, the article on TBO.com:
http://www2.tbo.com/static/special_reports_news/shakespear-case/

that references DDM met him in Feb 2007, and approached him about the book idea. That could be erroneous information, as that's the ONLY time I knew of that put her meeting him an entire year earlier than previously reported. But I just think it's interesting....and definitely possible!!

tigergal71 said:

Remember too, though, the article on TBO.com:
http://www2.tbo.com/static/special_reports_news/shakespear-case/

that references DDM met him in Feb 2007, and approached him about the book idea. That could be erroneous information, as that's the ONLY time I knew of that put her meeting him an entire year earlier than previously reported. But I just think it's interesting....and definitely possible!!

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I read that, but I did not believe that. I believe it happened just as was stated elsewhere. I believe Barbara Jackson met Dorice at the small business meeting in Kissimmee either in October or November of 2008, depending on what source you read. She said she introduced the two then. All of our public records involving Abraham and Dorice occur after that time. I have yet to see anything that connected Abraham and Dorice directly before then. And I don't think that she wanted to keep his company very long. I think that she planned this all out about stealing his money and went right to work on making the plan work.