ARRESTED- Luka Rocco Magnotta:1st deg murder charge;INTERPOL alert #6

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Wondergirl said:
The semantics do not matter.

It is a crime to film what he filmed.

It is a crime to knowingly publish that film.

You call it a nanny state, I call it what is morally and legally right.

Where do you draw the line? Do you not draw the line at murder? Sexual assault? Dismemberment. That stuff should NOT be online.

No wonder LE has their hands full with the proliferation of crimes throughout the Internet. The deviant images and videos are prolific, and a LEO once told me the proliferation absolutely has an effect on criminals, and would-be criminals.

JMO
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I understand that but who are the people who get to make these decisions about what is morally right for the rest of us. Is there some group of people we can trust to make these decisions and know they will make the right ones each time. I think we right now we call them "congress" and by my math they get it WRONG 9 times out of 10.

The point is what is moral for you may not be moral for someone else and nobody has a right to tell others what is good or bad for them, people can make those decisions themselves. Read the book 1984 and see how you feel about having a Ministry of Morality making decisions for everyone about what they can watch, read, SEE, HEAR, taste, all of it decided by some group of people who we are just supposed to trust, why? JUST BECAUSE.


You also seem to assume the only reason to watch the video is PLEASURE OR AMUSEMENT but there are many, many other reasons for watching that video, be creative and you will realize that.
 
Police in Canada say notes were included in mailed packages containing body parts after the videotaped killing and dismemberment of a Chinese student.
Montreal Police Cmdr. Ian Lafreniere said Wednesday that one note was in the package opened last week at the ruling Conservative Party headquarters. He did not give details, but suspect Luka Rocco Magnotta faces a charge of threatening Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper.
Police previously denied there were notes. Lafreniere says police don't want copycats and are not releasing details.


Read more: http://www.seattlepi.com/news/artic...body-parts-packages-3613274.php#ixzz1x2Epj9fz
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PAXIMUS said:
The US isnt far behind, Nanny State central New York has eliminated large helpings of soda pop, you can only buy 16 ounces at a time now because some people drink too much, so because some people abuse things the rest of us who do not have to be punished for it. By that logic we should ban or limit everything and let the government decide what is good and what is not good for us, since everything can be abused, there is no reason to allow people the right to make decisions for themselves anymore, we cant be trusted to do anything right only our perfect and all knowing elected leaders can make those decisions for us.


Here is the problem with all of this, where do we draw the line, we ban gore websites, then next week it is something else and the next week its another thing and it just keeps repeating itself over and over until suddenly you find yourself living back in Germany 1933 and the state defines your reality for you since your own eyes, ears, nose and mouth cannot be trusted to do so any longer.

I personally do not like the fact that history books show jewish people piled up atfter being killed in death camps but those pictures are an important part of our history and if there is one thing I am FOR it is the documentation of our lives and the things we do BOTH GOOD AND BAD for future generations to study and learn from. While this video is indeed disgusting and it challenges us in ways few things ever have it is important, for the sake of POSTERITY ALONE that we document it and make it available for future generations to study so as to prevent it from continuing to happen again.


I am sure it is very hurtful to the family of the victim to see these things on the internet but the fact that a few trees fall in the forest is not reason to immediately cut the rest of them down. There is a big picture to consider and the need to protect that big picture far outweighs the smaller issues that are the result of it.
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I agree with you. First time poster btw, been following this character with morbid intensity for the past few days.

This issue is raised in 'crime and punishment' where, the protagonist hacks two women to death (pawnbrokers) for the 'betterment of humanity'. Whether he is morally right in doing so is left up to you, but as far as the law goes, its wrong, and law seems to trump all.
 
Wondergirl said:
No need to answer this, just posing the question:

If your friend said to you, "come on over and watch a real snuff film tonight", would you?

There are some people who would never, ever, in a million years deliberately go and watch a snuff and dismemberment film, but, because of many different influences and factors, not the least of which is because it was so readily available on the Internet, hundreds of thousands of people watched that real life snuff and dismemberment video of the victim Jun Lin.

That, to me, is an issue worth discussing, because we all know those types of videos are out there. Not choosing to watch them, is not "sticking my head in the sand". I am hopeful that some poor soul who has to track these monsters down, catches them as a repurcussion of sites like these.

To blatantly display the video that is known to be a true, real life murder and dismemberment, crosses the boundaries, and to deliberately leave it on, is a crime, IMO.
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Well said! Good for you for saying it!!
 
AudreyRose said:
I found a thread where Justin Lin posts the following (translated by Google):

"Looking for a MM to get married. Have relatives in CA. I work in Beijing, Wuhan, October 2005 FN. Undergraduate. IELTS5 5, for five years, the IT 175 65 28, is still relatively handsome, interested, contact ljustinian@gmail.com

Please do not call me. ! ~ ~"

Can anyone clarify for me what an "MM" might be?
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male model?
 
cerem0ny said:
I agree with you. First time poster btw, been following this character with morbid intensity for the past few days.

This issue is raised in 'crime and punishment' where, the protagonist hacks two women to death (pawnbrokers) for the 'betterment of humanity'. Whether he is morally right in doing so is left up to you, but as far as the law goes, its wrong, and law seems to trump all.
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Good films make you think about uncomfortable matters. Great example!
 
Wondergirl said:
The semantics do not matter.

It is a crime to film what he filmed.

It is a crime to knowingly publish that film.

You call it a nanny state, I call it what is morally and legally right.

Where do you draw the line? Do you not draw the line at murder? Sexual assault? Dismemberment. That stuff should NOT be online.

No wonder LE has their hands full with the proliferation of crimes throughout the Internet. The deviant images and videos are prolific, and a LEO once told me the proliferation absolutely has an effect on criminals, and would-be criminals.

JMO
Click to expand...

but do you really want.........the government........to define what is moral?
because if you do, being overweight will soon be legally a crime.....
viewing any type of *advertiser censored* may soon be legally a crime.....
what if they demand that is is moral that you attend church at least once a week? or that is inmoral to do so.

i just dont understand people wanting the government to put us all on puppet strings or turn us into "yessir" robots....

shouldnt it be up to YOU an individual as to what is moral for YOU?

because like i said on my other post...i most certainly do not want ANY MORE people telling me HOW to live my life and what i am allowed to eat, drink, view, read and listen to.

while i dont indulge in gore and all that.....that is MY choice.

BANNING things NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER works. it didnt work back in the days of prohibition....it doesnt work now. look at the drugs that are ILLEGAL and yet it does not stop people from using them and commiting crimes while strung out on them. when we take away personal freedoms, people will rebel and find other ways of obtaining what is morally wrong to individuals.

less government....more personal responsbility.

/rant. lol with that, I respect your opinion on it all :)
 
wow, a lot to catch up on.. I too am new but do have a couple of questions:

1st, I read on here regarding body parts (hand & foot) being found outside a school in Acapulco. Yes, I know Mexico is notorious for its drug cartels but has any of those parts been identified to belong to rival gangs.

What if LM met the 66 year old, retired Mexican Airlines employee, HM and HM being much older want to impress the younger LM by taking him on a vacation to Mexico? He would assume he would have free access to fly anytime being retire from an airline.

Has anyone looked into seeing if HM flew out of the country around the time of the murders in Acapuco? Did he have a companion on the flight? If yes, could there be hotel footage of the two in Acapulco that could finally connect LM with HM?

I know it is a far fetched thought but I had to ask

Oh, the other question is regard the so called snuff film? How do we know he was already murdered on the tape? Couldn't he have been heavily sedated? I read on here that ML was interested in the drugs to sedate.
 
Wondergirl said:
The semantics do not matter.

It is a crime to film what he filmed.

It is a crime to knowingly publish that film.

You call it a nanny state, I call it what is morally and legally right.

Where do you draw the line? Do you not draw the line at murder? Sexual assault? Dismemberment. That stuff should NOT be online.

No wonder LE has their hands full with the proliferation of crimes throughout the Internet. The deviant images and videos are prolific, and a LEO once told me the proliferation absolutely has an effect on criminals, and would-be criminals.

JMO
Click to expand...

the semantics matter quite a bit. IMO. There are many that have said for years that there are no such things as snuff videos. None are known to exist, and they've never seen them, therefore they can't exist. Obviously, they exist, especially if there is an unedited version that LE has.

What was on that tape is not snuff material, there was no snuff. Some of us have fought hard to make the public aware of these things, and so yes, the terminology matters. The video that was posted online does not contain the act of murder.

Personally, I draw no lines. I believe that our world should be uncensored, and that we as humans should be responsible for censoring ourselves and the content we allow into our lives. Of course, if someone were to post a video of a crime they committed, then they should be prosecuted using that evidence, but to sanitize our world by removing everything that doesn't appeal to the majority is dangerous practice and completely nonsensical.
 
I'm no fan of censorship, but I'd venture to say that the web is not the drugstore of yore, with the skin mags tucked up behind the counter with only their titles showing. It's a whole lot easier to stumble on disturbing material, to share and store it, to replicate it. LRM's video isn't something I'll ever want to watch. I have no objections to others choosing to watch it, but the fact that it (a few days back, anyway) popped up early in the links on various search engines concerns me, as does the fact that the video's main character, the savagely murdered and degraded J Lin, has absolutely no way of choosing not to be distributed, viewed and chatted about in this way. And (speaking as a neutral) Why should a snuff video of a man involuntarily being abused and murdered (and abused again) not be treated in the same way as, say, rape or child *advertiser censored* in terms of moral or legal sanctions? All involve serious crimes with the notion of non-consent at their core, surely.

s
 
The 29-year-old *advertiser censored* actor used different music in each video but all of the songs dated to 1987. Police were unable to explain whether the year had particular significance for Magnotta, who was born Eric Newman in Scarborough in 1982.
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This is mentioned in this article, not sure if it has been brought up here. I think we have made the connection to the American Psycho music.. but not sure if 1987 is relevant. As they mention he was born in '92 - so would have been 5. Maybe thats when things went really bad for him?

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...d-videos-while-on-the-run-montreal-police-say
 
james62 said:
arrgghh! LCA are claiming way too much credit with no proof.

"LCA says they were able to track Magnotta’s movements when repeated hits for the videos came first from France and then from Germany. They sent out the following press release on their role in the case yesterday.["

Just what does the above prove?? As I said earlier, there are over 60 million people in France and over 80 million in Germany. The fact that people were clicking on the clips in those countries proves nothing at all. Of course people were clicking on them, this was a big news story in their countries. Geez. :banghead:
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Just another example of oportunistic people and organizations trying to have their "LOOK AT ME!" moment by almost literally stepping over a corpse to further their own agenda by capitalizing on a global news story.

YUCK!

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S II
 
PAXIMUS said:
I understand that but who are the people who get to make these decisions about what is morally right for the rest of us. Is there some group of people we can trust to make these decisions and know they will make the right ones each time. I think we right now we call them "congress" and by my math they get it WRONG 9 times out of 10.

The point is what is moral for you may not be moral for someone else and nobody has a right to tell others what is good or bad for them, people can make those decisions themselves. Read the book 1984 and see how you feel about having a Ministry of Morality making decisions for everyone about what they can watch, read, SEE, HEAR, taste, all of it decided by some group of people who we are just supposed to trust, why? JUST BECAUSE.


You also seem to assume the only reason to watch the video is PLEASURE OR AMUSEMENT but there are many, many other reasons for watching that video, be creative and you will realize that.
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This is an excellent debate.
I do NOT approve of Nanny State laws like banning sodas over 16 oz, but do have a problem with snuff/violent gore involving humans, animals, children being online for entertainment or research for other copycat killers.
It's a tricky balancing act because, I do not like extreme censorship that leads to fascist regimes.
I do think the owner of the site should remove the film.
 
jmhoo: I am not for bans on things.

In this case, however, I AM for trying to get this particular video PULLED from the internet (yeah I know, good luck with that) for the sake of the VICTIM who was murdered and dismembered in a horrid way.
 
kevmoley said:
wow, a lot to catch up on.. I too am new but do have a couple of questions:

1st, I read on here regarding body parts (hand & foot) being found outside a school in Acapulco. Yes, I know Mexico is notorious for its drug cartels but has any of those parts been identified to belong to rival gangs.

What if LM met the 66 year old, retired Mexican Airlines employee, HM and HM being much older want to impress the younger LM by taking him on a vacation to Mexico? He would assume he would have free access to fly anytime being retire from an airline.

Has anyone looked into seeing if HM flew out of the country around the time of the murders in Acapuco? Did he have a companion on the flight? If yes, could there be hotel footage of the two in Acapulco that could finally connect LM with HM?

I know it is a far fetched thought but I had to ask
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I doubt that simply because if I'm remembering correctly, the Hollywood murder victim was in extremely bad financial situation (homeless or close to it) and wouldn't have been financing any trips anywhere.

Please, anyone that followed the Hollywood case more closely than I, if I am incorrect, correct me please.
 
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