What happened to Rebecca Zahau?

CDS22 said:

I have waist length hair and I always keep it tucked inside scarves and even wear it inside my coat in the wintertime. I didn't know that was unusual.

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Not unusual with outerwear I guess, coats and scarves for warmth. I was thinking about accessories. I bought a scarf yesterday, it was the first one I've seen that was one continual piece with the ends sewn together. I put it on in the store mirror and swept my hair out from underneath it, played with different styles of wearing it...so it would have looked weird to have it around the outside of my hair you know?

ziggy said:

Not unusual with outerwear I guess, coats and scarves for warmth. I was thinking about accessories. I bought a scarf yesterday, it was the first one I've seen that was one continual piece with the ends sewn together. I put it on in the store mirror and swept my hair out from underneath it, played with different styles of wearing it...so it would have looked weird to have it around the outside of my hair you know?

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I know what you mean. In the case of RZ, unfortunately, she wasn't wearing her scarf for warmth or an accessory, so it's anyone's guess why it happened the way that it did.

I believe it was suicide. It was done in a dramatic way because she felt completely trapped emotionally. I think the best way to try and determine what happened is to look for overall patterns. The one overriding pattern I see is Rebecca's isolation after Max's accident. All the kids are whisked away, dog boarded up, she's not allowed to visit Max, there's a possibility that she's staying in the guest house, I think Adam was instructed to watch over her, and she jumps from the guest room. We know that JS is a very controlling person. We know that DS did not trust Rebecca. After the tragedy of Max's fall I specualte she was blamed and cast away by both DS and JS. She may have kept this to herself adding to her isolation. This is why her dying words were she saved him - she did not allow Max to die at the scene. It wasn't her decision to take him off life-support and she would have been against that. I speculate that JS and DS made the call to take Max off life-support and that the decision wasn't made or transmitted for the first time at 12:50AM. We will never know the content of that VM and that makes everything that happened afterward impossible to understand on it's own.

'Can he save her' was a message to Max's soul. We know she believed that taking her own life was against God's will and she was asking Max for salvation. We don't know exactly why she bound herself the way she did but it could have a very intimate nature - something that will never be made public - and that will always seem confusing to the public. This is the most challenging aspect of this case if it was suicide there will be certain information that will not be made public. It seems that most people that believe it was a murder have to rely on the possibility of additional evidence that's not present. I think it would help if those that really believe it was murder organize their arguments in order of priority. What is the number 1, 2, 3 etc... fact that makes you think it's murder? It would be interesting to see which issues rise to the top - which ones are shared by everyone - which ones are outliers. My hunch is that there will be little convergence. You can look at any one aspect of this case and it will seem suspicious - but if you try to build an actual case there's no consistent path. Again it's always about patterns. Again if this is indeed a suicide there may be patterns about Rebecca privy to JS and others that will never come out.

HowLoveCanBe said:

I believe it was suicide. It was done in a dramatic way because she felt completely trapped emotionally. I think the best way to try and determine what happened is to look for overall patterns. The one overriding pattern I see is Rebecca's isolation after Max's accident. All the kids are whisked away, dog boarded up, she's not allowed to visit Max, there's a possibility that she's staying in the guest house, I think Adam was instructed to watch over her, and she jumps from the guest room. We know that JS is a very controlling person. We know that DS did not trust Rebecca. After the tragedy of Max's fall I specualte she was blamed and cast away by both DS and JS. She may have kept this to herself adding to her isolation. This is why her dying words were she saved him - she did not allow Max to die at the scene. It wasn't her decision to take him off life-support and she would have been against that. I speculate that JS and DS made the call to take Max off life-support and that the decision wasn't made or transmitted for the first time at 12:50AM. We will never know the content of that VM and that makes everything that happened afterward impossible to understand on it's own.

'Can he save her' was a message to Max's soul. We know she believed that taking her own life was against God's will and she was asking Max for salvation. We don't know exactly why she bound herself the way she did but it could have a very intimate nature - something that will never be made public - and that will always seem confusing to the public. This is the most challenging aspect of this case if it was suicide there will be certain information that will not be made public. It seems that most people that believe it was a murder have to rely on the possibility of additional evidence that's not present. I think it would help if those that really believe it was murder organize their arguments in order of priority. What is the number 1, 2, 3 etc... fact that makes you think it's murder? It would be interesting to see which issues rise to the top - which ones are shared by everyone - which ones are outliers. My hunch is that there will be little convergence. You can look at any one aspect of this case and it will seem suspicious - but if you try to build an actual case there's no consistent path. Again it's always about patterns. Again if this is indeed a suicide there may be patterns about Rebecca privy to JS and others that will never come out.

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Wouldn't the same patterns that would make everything more understandable be privy to Rebecca's family? Leaving it up to them to release it.
Is it normal that JS would hold the cards when he is only a boyfriend?

HowLoveCanBe said:

I believe it was suicide. It was done in a dramatic way because she felt completely trapped emotionally. I think the best way to try and determine what happened is to look for overall patterns. The one overriding pattern I see is Rebecca's isolation after Max's accident. All the kids are whisked away, dog boarded up, she's not allowed to visit Max, there's a possibility that she's staying in the guest house, I think Adam was instructed to watch over her, and she jumps from the guest room. We know that JS is a very controlling person. We know that DS did not trust Rebecca. After the tragedy of Max's fall I specualte she was blamed and cast away by both DS and JS. She may have kept this to herself adding to her isolation. This is why her dying words were she saved him - she did not allow Max to die at the scene. It wasn't her decision to take him off life-support and she would have been against that. I speculate that JS and DS made the call to take Max off life-support and that the decision wasn't made or transmitted for the first time at 12:50AM. We will never know the content of that VM and that makes everything that happened afterward impossible to understand on it's own.

'Can he save her' was a message to Max's soul. We know she believed that taking her own life was against God's will and she was asking Max for salvation. We don't know exactly why she bound herself the way she did but it could have a very intimate nature - something that will never be made public - and that will always seem confusing to the public. This is the most challenging aspect of this case if it was suicide there will be certain information that will not be made public. It seems that most people that believe it was a murder have to rely on the possibility of additional evidence that's not present. I think it would help if those that really believe it was murder organize their arguments in order of priority. What is the number 1, 2, 3 etc... fact that makes you think it's murder? It would be interesting to see which issues rise to the top - which ones are shared by everyone - which ones are outliers. My hunch is that there will be little convergence. You can look at any one aspect of this case and it will seem suspicious - but if you try to build an actual case there's no consistent path. Again it's always about patterns. Again if this is indeed a suicide there may be patterns about Rebecca privy to JS and others that will never come out.

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Thank you, How Love Can Be. I have gotten the sense that your postings are very genuine and from the heart. I, for one, have trouble organizing your feelings and will be so bold to ask some questions:

1. Why do you think Adam was "watching over her"?

2. Why do you think Rebecca was isolating herself?

3. Do you think she tried hard to save Max after his accident?

4. Why do you think that the decision to take Max off life support at 12:50 was not the first time it was made?

5. Why do you think her bindings were of such an intimate nature and that no one will ever understand it?

6. And, finally, what are your issues in order of 1,2 3 that rise to the top?

I am very interested in your take on things.

"oceanblueeyes;7115259]So you think she just walked out there calmly and jumped? She could still have dropped her body to the bottom of the balcony floor in resistance and kicked at the perp even with her feet bound."


She could, Ocean, but only if she were alive at the time.

alexanderdavis said:

Wouldn't the same patterns that would make everything more understandable be privy to Rebecca's family? Leaving it up to them to release it.
Is it normal that JS would hold the cards when he is only a boyfriend?

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What I'm suggesting is that over the last two years Rebecca may have shared things with JS that she did not share with her family. Certainly there would have been aspects of their relationship only shared between them. What I'm saying is if JS has information that would lend to the suicide scenario - he is probably not going to share that publicly. He may share it with Rebecca's family if it doesn't make him look bad - but maybe not under the current circumstances. What's of more immediate concern is what was the nature of JS's and Rebecca's relationship between Max's death and her death? Maybe he knows that his behavior, actions, and words contributed to a break-down in their relationship. At the very least I can imagine that it would have been difficult for him to stand-up to Dina to defend Rebecca. Was there an altercation or confrontation between Dina and Rebecca at the hospital? How did JS react? I also find it hard to believe that she would miss a call given the circumstances and then delete the message. It's more likely there were multiple calls leading to some emotional fracture. She prob hung up on him and he called back to leave the final message - which she deleted. Obviously this is all speculation. I just think that JS would want to hide any abuse he may have directed towards Rebecca leading up to her suicide. He may have been honest with LE but wanted to shield this from her family and the public at large.

justice be served said:

Thank you, How Love Can Be. I have gotten the sense that your postings are very genuine and from the heart. I, for one, have trouble organizing your feelings and will be so bold to ask some questions:

1. Why do you think Adam was "watching over her"?

2. Why do you think Rebecca was isolating herself?

3. Do you think she tried hard to save Max after his accident?

4. Why do you think that the decision to take Max off life support at 12:50 was not the first time it was made?

5. Why do you think her bindings were of such an intimate nature and that no one will ever understand it?

6. And, finally, what are your issues in order of 1,2 3 that rise to the top?

I am very interested in your take on things.

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1. If Adam were there just for Max he would be at hospital and Ronald McDonald House. It looks like Rebecca may have been sleeping in the guest house. It's possible she was asked to leave the main house.

2. I think Rebecca was being isolated. She may have not been able to turn to her family and friends which made her feel more isolated. If she was being blamed for Max's death and JS was kicking her to the curb - I can see how she might not be able to accept that right away and share it with her loved ones.

3. Yes of course I think she tried to save him. He did not die at the scene. This why she wrote 'she saved him'

4. I can't accept that she got a VM call at 12:50 that Informed her of Max's death and didn't call back. I can't believe that JS and DS would decide to take Max off life-support at around 12:50AM. It's more likely that the VM was the last in a series of escalating phone conversations. She hung up on JS - he called back left VM - and she deleted it.

5. Bottom line I think she was heart broken. She loved Max and JS and felt that she had lost them both. I think she may have wanted to express her love for JS in some manner. Why not in the form of undress? I think the shirt around her neck was JS's and she often slept in it. I think she was terrified and in tears - and put it in her mouth so she could stop crying and bit down hard for courage.

6. If I were to believe it was murder I would focus first focus on Adam - second focus on JS and DS - third look for some evidence of an intruder. If all three options checked out - I would say dramatic suicide.

Seems to me it could be someone who just hated JS...knew he would be at the hospital; took an opportunity to kill his girlfriend...She saved him - maybe this person was not privy to the information that Max was not really saved. Hope they checked out all persons who may have had a vendetta against JS. If you really hated a man and wanted to do him in, humiliating his girlfriend in such a scene would do it.

HowLoveCanBe makes some interesting points.

I just don't see the controlling behavior that Jonah Shacknai was supposed to have concerning Rebecca.

In fact I believe he did plan to marry her. They had gone together for two years. It wasnt like she was a part time lover. She lived with him both in CA and in AZ. She had become a part of his family unit.

If I consider what has been said I don't think Jonah was shunning Rebecca. She was to have had lunch/dinner with him and his brother and she also told her family she had been bringing Jonah's clothes to him to change into so he would not have to leave Max' side except maybe to catch a short nap over at the Ronald McDonald house near by. I believe Jonah also was communicating with her about Adam flying in and when she could pick him up at the ariport. I wouldnt be the least surprise if the cell phone records show quite a bit of communication between the two from the time Max was in the hospital until the voice mail was left.

I think he communicated with her every time he got the chance to do so. Although at that time his first priority would be Max.

If she already was having anxiety about Max' condition but placed herself in denial convincing herself he would improve then the 12:50 am call would be a profound awakening.

I don't believe the Shacknai's wanted to believe his condition wouldn't improve. No way when they were first told did they say 'ok pull the plug..its over' So of course they did not make a rush decision to unhook their son from life support. The family has to get 'there' mentally in their minds in order to accept death is going to be the only result. I do believe the doctors staff told them again the night/early morning and he then in turn called Rebecca.. most likely when he had a chance when things were quiet.

Some seem to think he was angry with Rebecca but imo he was distraught and if he was crying or choked up with emotion when he made the call to Rebecca it would affect her even more profoundly, imo. In the years she had known him she may have never seen him that vulnerable and full of emotional pain.

I did read that Rebecca did come to see Max in the hospital but due to the hospital only allowing two in at a time she did not get to see Max as much as she wanted. We can easily speculate Dina would NOT give up her visiting time to Rebecca but I do think Jonah did so that she could see Max.

So imo Rebecca killed herself because the pain she felt in her heart was just too heavy to carry.

IMO

Two persons, of any size, could easily grasp Rebecca (one on either side) and toss her over that balcony railing. A good sized man could do it too. One accustomed to manhandling large items. We recycled some metal recently....the guy lifted the 100# tubs by himself with little effort.

Ocean,

Do you have a link for only 2 people being allowed in to see MS at a time? I know that used to SOP, but due to the situation, sometimes they allow the whole family to be in the room and then ask others to leave when the Doctor(s) come in to talk with parents (my past experience).

TIA

score

scorekeeper said:

Ocean,

Do you have a link for only 2 people being allowed in to see MS at a time? I know that used to SOP, but due to the situation, sometimes they allow the whole family to be in the room and then ask others to leave when the Doctor(s) come in to talk with parents (my past experience).

TIA

score

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I believe that was a statement from LE to radar online to explain why RN supposedly didn't get to see Max as much as she would have wanted. Frankly I don't buy it. I am not sure if she ever got to see Max in the hospital.

scorekeeper said:

Ocean,

Do you have a link for only 2 people being allowed in to see MS at a time? I know that used to SOP, but due to the situation, sometimes they allow the whole family to be in the room and then ask others to leave when the Doctor(s) come in to talk with parents (my past experience).

TIA

score

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Oh goodness Score. LOL! I read it on line.

I just assumed (I know, I know :floorlaugh that everyone here had already read it.

I will try to find it again though.

IMO

scorekeeper said:

Ocean,

Do you have a link for only 2 people being allowed in to see MS at a time? I know that used to SOP, but due to the situation, sometimes they allow the whole family to be in the room and then ask others to leave when the Doctor(s) come in to talk with parents (my past experience).

TIA

score

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I'm not sure how different CA would be from GA as far as ICU practices go, but my Dad had open heart surgery a couple of months ago and was in ICU.
As soon as he came out of surgery, we were all(my sisters and stepmother) allowed to see him at one time for five minutes. Once we made sure he was okay after the surgery, everyone had to leave and from then on, it was only two at time.

Evan's Mom said:

I'm not sure how different CA would be from GA as far as ICU practices go, but my Dad had open heart surgery a couple of months ago and was in ICU.
As soon as he came out of surgery, we were all(my sisters and stepmother) allowed to see him at one time for five minutes. Once we made sure he was okay after the surgery, everyone had to leave and from then on, it was only two at time.

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I don't think it would matter in RN's case how many people at a time were allowed to see the child.

elfie said:

If she went over the balcony railing by another, I believe she was already dead it this point, from strangulation.

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arielilane said:

My opinion differs from your opinion. I believe she was helped out there.

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elfie said:

I think the hanging was staged as a suicide because she was actually strangled.

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Carpe Pacem said:

"oceanblueeyes;7115259]So you think she just walked out there calmly and jumped? She could still have dropped her body to the bottom of the balcony floor in resistance and kicked at the perp even with her feet bound."


She could, Ocean, but only if she were alive at the time.

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I strongly agree with each of these posts. Only scenarios that make sense.

jjenny said:

I don't think it would matter in RN's case how many people at a time were allowed to see the child.

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Exactly!!

ICU visitation rules vary hospital to hospital and sometimes within a hospital. It depends on many variables, safety issues and the condition of the patient.

Evan's Mom said:

I'm not sure how different CA would be from GA as far as ICU practices go, but my Dad had open heart surgery a couple of months ago and was in ICU.
As soon as he came out of surgery, we were all(my sisters and stepmother) allowed to see him at one time for five minutes. Once we made sure he was okay after the surgery, everyone had to leave and from then on, it was only two at time.

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I live in California. A few years ago my mother had surgery and the waiting room was next to ICU. There was also an area outside the elevators with lots of chairs, not a room, where a large group of people of various ages gathered. I talked to a couple who said there uncle (single, never married, in his 50s) was in a diabetic coma and not expected to live and the family had come from all over to say their goodbyes. There must have been at least 20-30 people at that time and he said there were more to come. He said that only 2 at a time could see the uncle.

SophieRose said:

I live in California. A few years ago my mother had surgery and the waiting room was next to ICU. There was also an area outside the elevators with lots of chairs, not a room, where a large group of people of various ages gathered. I talked to a couple who said there uncle (single, never married, in his 50s) was in a diabetic coma and not expected to live and the family had come from all over to say their goodbyes. There must have been at least 20-30 people at that time and he said there were more to come. He said that only 2 at a time could see the uncle.

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It is the same way in my state. While there is a family/friends waiting room close to ICU only 2 can go in at one time to see the patient and it is only for 15 minites about every 2 hours.

IMO