Ping Map and Timeline for June 16, 2008 - Discuss that day only.

Casey was probably sleeping when her phone had down-time. Maybe something happened to Caylee while she was napping.

George may have called for those 25 seconds just returning her call.

Her parents probably didn't answer the phone b/c they knew she was just calling for a babysitter.

All I see in JG's statement about the conversation on the 16th is that it was "not unnormal" to hear Caylee in the background "whenever" he talked to KC on the phone. He didn't seem to have any particular memory of hearing her that day. The thing he was really sure about was that he heard her on the 24th--but that's the one he backed off from later.

I think we should keep this in mind. If JG didn't hear Caylee on the 16th, she might have been dead before KC even returned to the house. Let's say they left the house 12:50 as GA says, and he didn't go to work until 2:30. KC wouldn't feel comfortable going back without leaving at least a little "cushion" of time to make sure GA was really gone. So did she really sit in the car around the corner for 2 hours before going back to the house? If so, did she run the A/C the whole time? Or maybe she parked somewhere, Caylee was napping in the car seat, KC wanted to talk to friends on the phone and didn't want to wake her up (because that would trigger annoying mommy duties), so KC got out of the car, leaving Caylee in the car seat in the heat...then discovers a little after 3 pm when she gets off the phone with JG that Caylee is unresponsive. KC rushes back to the house to see if she can revive her (but doesn't take Caylee's doll in with her given the circumstances), calls mommy the nurse when she can't wake Caylee up...but at some point realizes Caylee is too far gone and it is really HER FAULT so she will be in trouble with parents, police, etc., PLUS everyone will know she has no job...and since Caylee is dead anyway the best thing to do is cover it up.

What do you guys think? If I knew for sure there was a chloroform search pre-6/16, I might revise this theory to something more premeditated, though.

RR0004 said:

Could something have happened at the house when Casey went back?

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If these "electronic footprints" (as NG calls them) are accurate wouldn't it be difficult for the state to show premeditation? I'm trying to figure out how does one kill another with all of these phone calls and texts going on. Wouldn't she have needed a "slower" day if this was premeditated?

Also, I'm assuming JB park has been searched thoroughly?

This case is driving me crazy. Either LE's dates are off or KC is the most monstrous person in the world. It looks like she took a coffee break to kill her daughter.

eg@gm said:

Casey was probably sleeping when her phone had down-time. Maybe something happened to Caylee while she was napping.

George may have called for those 25 seconds just returning her call.
Her parents probably didn't answer the phone b/c they knew she was just calling for a babysitter.

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Oh, I didn't see a call to GA before that on that day.

frenchvixen said:

If these "electronic footprints" (as NG calls them) are accurate wouldn't it be difficult for the state to show premeditation? I'm trying to figure out how does one kill another with all of these phone calls and texts going on. Wouldn't she have needed a "slower" day if this was premeditated?

Also, I'm assuming JB park has been searched thoroughly?

This case is driving me crazy. Either LE's dates are off or KC is the most monstrous person in the world. It looks like she took a coffee break to kill her daughter.

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It probably didn't take all that long, and we have seen how she was doing at Blockbuster that night. This was not a traumatic event for Casey, as frightening as that is.

frenchvixen said:

If these "electronic footprints" (as NG calls them) are accurate wouldn't it be difficult for the state to show premeditation? I'm trying to figure out how does one kill another with all of these phone calls and texts going on. Wouldn't she have needed a "slower" day if this was premeditated?

Also, I'm assuming JB park has been searched thoroughly?

This case is driving me crazy. Either LE's dates are off or KC is the most monstrous person in the world. It looks like she took a coffee break to kill her daughter.

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That's what really jumps out at me. There was no lengthy phone call where Casey might have been ignoring Caylee or long period of time when she might have been napping. Casey was a busy little beaver the entire time, and at some point took out a few minutes, apparently between 3pm and around 4pm, to kill her daughter.

frenchvixen said:

If these "electronic footprints" (as NG calls them) are accurate wouldn't it be difficult for the state to show premeditation? I'm trying to figure out how does one kill another with all of these phone calls and texts going on. Wouldn't she have needed a "slower" day if this was premeditated?

Also, I'm assuming JB park has been searched thoroughly?

This case is driving me crazy. Either LE's dates are off or KC is the most monstrous person in the world. It looks like she took a coffee break to kill her daughter.

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I hate to say this but the possible method that we have been discussing wouldn't take very long to carry out.

TimeWillTell said:

Weird how GA calls out of the blue at 3:05 and the call is only 25 seconds?

Also I'm now kinda wondering if all the phone calls to CA weren't trying to get her to babysit that night so that her and TL could have cuddle up movie night alone. It just made me think back to the fired cops texts back and forth with KC and how she was desperatly trying to get a babysitter. Just thinking out loud folks! Just when I think I have it all figured out another theory jumps into my mind :crazy:

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Also weird that he doesn't mention it.

AZlawyer said:

All I see in JG's statement about the conversation on the 16th is that it was "not unnormal" to hear Caylee in the background "whenever" he talked to KC on the phone. He didn't seem to have any particular memory of hearing her that day. The thing he was really sure about was that he heard her on the 24th--but that's the one he backed off from later.

I think we should keep this in mind. If JG didn't hear Caylee on the 16th, she might have been dead before KC even returned to the house. Let's say they left the house 12:50 as GA says, and he didn't go to work until 2:30. KC wouldn't feel comfortable going back without leaving at least a little "cushion" of time to make sure GA was really gone. So did she really sit in the car around the corner for 2 hours before going back to the house? If so, did she run the A/C the whole time? Or maybe she parked somewhere, Caylee was napping in the car seat, KC wanted to talk to friends on the phone and didn't want to wake her up (because that would trigger annoying mommy duties), so KC got out of the car, leaving Caylee in the car seat in the heat...then discovers a little after 3 pm when she gets off the phone with JG that Caylee is unresponsive. KC rushes back to the house to see if she can revive her (but doesn't take Caylee's doll in with her given the circumstances), calls mommy the nurse when she can't wake Caylee up...but at some point realizes Caylee is too far gone and it is really HER FAULT so she will be in trouble with parents, police, etc., PLUS everyone will know she has no job...and since Caylee is dead anyway the best thing to do is cover it up.

What do you guys think? If I knew for sure there was a chloroform search pre-6/16, I might revise this theory to something more premeditated, though.

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Okay, I was taking the other posters info as fact. IF JG is just relating it was common to hear Caylee in the background, and can't recall from his memory a specific memory for June 16, 2008 at 2:52 p.m. phone call for 12 minutes, then it is a generalized description. I also felt George's description was a generalized description of a "normal day" and he was treating June 16, 2008 as a "normal day." But, if neither of them can bring to mind a first person specific memory of that particular day, June 16, 2008 (as opposed to normal day routines) then it is possible no one has seen Caylee since late night on June 15, 2008. During that time period, KC would have been smarting from the emotional and physical fight that had broken out between CA and KC. CA apparently tried to choke KC -- fingers around KC's neck and the whole bit. What followed for KC was probably rage. Caylee may have been the subject of this rage on the night of June15th. This, of course assumes GA and JG are describing what they usually saw on a typical day and not what they actually recall seeing on June 16, 2008. In the rage a person with anti-social personality disorder might have killed the 2 year old.

Pink Panther said:

I hate to say this but the possible method that we have been discussing wouldn't take very long to carry out.

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Even if she was cold blooded in doing it, doesn't she need at least 20 minutes to think of where she's going to put the body? Why would you be making phone calls after you kill someone even if you don't care about them, you need to cover your own *advertiser censored* and hide it quick. This is just not adding up.

I'm not saying that she didn't do it (I know she did) but the dates are off (I believe they are). She would be the most skilled assassin if she were able to pull off killing someone, texting, talking on the phone, bury/hide the body (after figuring out where to bury or hide it) and still make it to BB by 7:50p.

You guys are giving her way too much credit.

Pink Panther said:

Also weird that he doesn't mention it.

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Not really, it would be very difficult, after a month, to remember a 25 second phone call to someone you call regularly.

Chilly Willy said:

Not really, it would be very difficult, after a month, to remember a 25 second phone call to someone you call regularly.

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He doesn't call her regularly. In fact, in the entire period between June 15th and July 15th, I think there are only 3 calls between them where they are on the phone long enough for conversation.

This is what Jesse responds when asked if he heard Caylee in the background during that call:

It was not, yeah (affirmative), it was not unnormal to hear Caylee in the background.....


The (affirmative) is written just that way in the transcript. I believe LE is taking the 'yeah' as his answer.

frenchvixen said:

Even if she was cold blooded in doing it, doesn't she need at least 20 minutes to think of where she's going to put the body? Why would you be making phone calls after you kill someone even if you don't care about them, you need to cover your own *advertiser censored* and hide it quick. This is just not adding up.

I'm not saying that she didn't do it (I know she did) but the dates are off (I believe they are). She would be the most skilled assassin if she were able to pull off killing someone, texting, talking on the phone, bury/hide the body (after figuring out where to bury or hide it) and still make it to BB by 7:50p.

You guys are giving her way too much credit.

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Murder Caylee. Lay the body in the back yard. Move it from place to place. Decide not to bury it. Dump it in the trunk. Done.

frenchvixen said:

Even if she was cold blooded in doing it, doesn't she need at least 20 minutes to think of where she's going to put the body? Why would you be making phone calls after you kill someone even if you don't care about them, you need to cover your own *advertiser censored* and hide it quick. This is just not adding up.

I'm not saying that she didn't do it (I know she did) but the dates are off (I believe they are). She would be the most skilled assassin if she were able to pull off killing someone, texting, talking on the phone, bury/hide the body (after figuring out where to bury or hide it) and still make it to BB by 7:50p.

You guys are giving her way too much credit.

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Sociopaths don't plan ahead. They live in the moment to moment. When Caylee died, KC threw her straight into the trunk. Later put her in the backyard. Dogs alerted on both the backyard and the trunk.
Why did the As move a huge hibiscus bush in July, which would not be the optimum time for moving a delicate flowering bush. Should have moved the bush in February or March. KC backed the car in on Wednesday, the 18th.
LE should dig up that hibiscus bush.

Pink Panther said:

He doesn't call her regularly. In fact, in the entire period between June 15th and July 15th, I think there are only 3 calls between them where they are on the phone long enough for conversation.

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I still don't think it's strange that he didn't mention it - if he didn't. That day was nothing out of the ordinary at the time, why recall a 25 second phone call or that it was made on that specific day?

frenchvixen said:

Even if she was cold blooded in doing it, doesn't she need at least 20 minutes to think of where she's going to put the body? Why would you be making phone calls after you kill someone even if you don't care about them, you need to cover your own *advertiser censored* and hide it quick. This is just not adding up.

I'm not saying that she didn't do it (I know she did) but the dates are off (I believe they are). She would be the most skilled assassin if she were able to pull off killing someone, texting, talking on the phone, bury/hide the body (after figuring out where to bury or hide it) and still make it to BB by 7:50p.

You guys are giving her way too much credit.

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There is a 35 minute window before the flurry of calls. It would take less than 5 minutes to smother her. I think she put her in the playhouse, even if she spent 10 minutes moving her around, it doesn't take much time. Being on the phone right afterwards is in keeping with everything we have seen from her.

Themis said:

Sociopaths don't plan ahead. They live in the moment to moment. When Caylee died, KC threw her straight into the trunk. Later put her in the backyard. Dogs alerted on both the backyard and the trunk.
Why did the As move a huge hibiscus bush in July, which would not be the optimum time for moving a delicate flowering bush. Should have moved the bush in February or March.

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I'm thinking Casey put her in the backyard first, she may have even killed her in the backyard, and then she put her into the trunk. I don't think moving the hibiscus bush has anything to do with anything.

Chilly Willy said:

I still don't think it's strange that he didn't mention it - if he didn't. That day was nothing out of the ordinary at the time, why recall a 25 second phone call or that it was made on that specific day?

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The same reason he would remember every little detail of what both of them were wearing.

impatientredhead said:

There is a 35 minute window before the flurry of calls. It would take less than 5 minutes to smother her. I think she put her in the playhouse, even if she spent 10 minutes moving her around, it doesn't take much time. Being on the phone right afterwards is in keeping with everything we have seen from her.

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I think she lay her down next to the pool. Then moved her into the corner behind the playhouse, removed the lid to the sandbox and put her in the sandbox, replaced the lid.